RicK G wrote:Don't use the black nitrile O-rings they go hard and will leak within 2 years. Use the red silicone or the brown viton but red silicone is the best.

Asked for Red Silicone ones at the bearing shop and told them its for high temp - went to collect today and they gave me brown viton.

Also, got all 6 bearings for the gearbox and new steering head bearings (second set Ive had to buy....the damn safe place stole the others!)

for O-rings and bearings it cost $160.. More then I was expecting, but ya get that dont ya.

Bearings have an enormous mark up and I tend to forget how much cheaper trade is. The viton O-rings will be OK put a bit of 3 bond around the mating surfaces next to the rings seat but try not to get any in with the ring because if you have too much it don't compress and can actually make it leak.

RicK G wrote:Bearings have an enormous mark up and I tend to forget how much cheaper trade is. The viton O-rings will be OK put a bit of 3 bond around the mating surfaces next to the rings seat but try not to get any in with the ring because if you have too much it don't compress and can actually make it leak.

You werent to far off the mark Rick. The steering head bearings were $30 each but the gearbox bearings were more like $15 each. 

I have a confession. Id already reassembled the lower crankcase half onto the engine block. Without putting the little bit of 3 bond around the o rings. Well, I did a little bit, but not all the way around. Also, (maybe a more serious offence, im not sure) my 3 bond went awol in the safe place too. So I got some Blue silicone gasket maker stuff from the auto shop. The pack claims that its the number one choice of mechanics world wide! How can I go wrong with a claim like that?!?

Ok, the clymers manual only lists tourque specs for "lower crank case half bolts" - does this include the 4 on the inside, that seem to secure the output shaft in place?

If so, the listed 8-10nm seems odd. They were total bastards to get undone in the 3 engines Ive had to remove them on....

Just want to confirm before I go an glue the oil pan on....

yep keeps them in business ...ill bet

I would say they are referring to the 6mm bolts around the outside the 8mm bolts that hold the shaft in should be 13-18ft/lb which is about 18-24nm. Those bolts have been in there for the best part of 30 years I wouldn't expect them to be easy or even close to 24nm

RicK G wrote:I would say they are referring to the 6mm bolts around the outside the 8mm bolts that hold the shaft in should be 13-18ft/lb which is about 18-24nm. Those bolts have been in there for the best part of 30 years I wouldn't expect them to be easy or even close to 24nm

I need to get in the habbit of checking all 3 manuals before asking my silly questions, you guys are just so much faster than the manuals....plus I only have 1 of them in hard copy (Clymers) so I tend to mostly only use it....

Here are the torque specs from the factory manual (Neither Haynes nor Clymers gave these figures, or Im not looking in the right place....)


(the ones in bold are the bolts in question I assume)

Output shaft to front of crankcase . . . . . . . 18±2
Output shaft to rear of crankcase . . . . .. . . 40 ± 5
Lower section of crankcase to outside of engine block . 7± 1
Oil sump to lower section of crankcase 7± 1
Lid to oil sump . 7± 1
Oil drain plug . . . . . . . . 32 ±4

Time for some pics


I pulled the lower crank case (I think thats an inaccurate name, but anyway) off again, as I wasnt happy with my work the first time around after reading the Haynes manual closely. Advise to all new K-comers, read all 3 manuals. 

Anyways, the main thing I was concerned with was the little oil channel between the case and the pump - had to clean it out - and I was also unsure as to how clean the grooves were for the bearing cir clips to sit in. 

Behold! The 12 rivet output shaft has found a new home! Big milestone moment for the project. I decided to use Chris Harris' method of brushing on the gasket maker. 



My 85RS lower crank case has a fairly major battle scar....




The PO must have got this Oil Pan off a Ducati, or he just ot confused and thought the bike was a Ducati - either way the oil pan came painted gold and I cant be arsed to paint it black (unlike the stones)

Unlike the used car dealers motto with starters and alternators "paint it black and put it back" and when the customer says does this have a new starter the reply is Hmmm must be your lucky day hey.

floyd wrote:The PO must have got this Oil Pan off a Ducati, or he just ot confused and thought the bike was a Ducati - either way the oil pan came painted gold and I cant be arsed to paint it black (unlike the stones)

It was the optional John Player Special dual-use oil sump & post teardown ashtray.

Ok Gentlemen (and Ladies?),

About to order braided brake lines.

The rear is fairly straight forward - K100RS rear calliper - So I will need a line from the peddle to the fluid reservoir, and one from there to the calliper.

The front is where I need assistance:

Full K1100 front, but I want to eliminate the ABS. What lines do I need? And do I need to do any other modification other then simply bypassing the ABS system?

My K100RS-16v is non ABS.  It has one hose from the MC to the fork bridge, then one to each caliper from the fork bridge.  The front end on the 16v is pretty much same-ish as the K1100.

Al

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any reason to have a steel line from the piston to the reservoir, there should be no pressure there and it hasn't got fittings, just barbs for hose. someone will be along shortly to correct me if not ;-)

your right snowbeard .....on the rear reservoir to master piston
have seen them relocated and tucked away pretty well out of view ...after all its just gravity feed to the master

The rear reservoir was relocated from -88 year models.

Thanks ya'll.

Got a single line for the rear, then LT 1100 top line and 2 lower lines for the front. 4 new lines in total, on their merry little way from the 'Bins. 

Bloody well forgot to order a clutch centring tool though! Anyone wanna lend me one?

I've rung em a couple of times if I forgot something. I use a socket and the pushrod to center the clutch plate. I think a 13mm socket fits inside the spline on the plate, so put one of them in and pass the push rod through the socket and into the seat on the spring plate. You see how far it goes in, you will want to wrap a spool of electical tape around the push rod at the right spot so it sits centered inside the socket. Clear as mud

That's a good idea Robin, you could also centre the clutch plate by eye ,then slightly nip up pressure plate bolts so clutch plate has some resistance, then fit gearbox to centre the plate.
Remove gearbox and tighten pressure cover bolts.

I found a broomstick in my box of bmw hand me downs ...turned down to fit up just perfectly

there was a recommendation for one of the marker pens that fit as well ... couple of bucks at the newsagent ...sounds good to me

have a look in here

https://www.k100-forum.com/t1148-clutch-centering-tool#14417

Got one here Flloyd, just arrived in the mail this week.

Al

Might have to grab that off you at some stage Al ol buddy ol pal....


IN other exciting news, after doing a bit of reading and some of my own investigation, Ive decided to also raid the clutch housing and starter gear bits and bobs as they are of superior design etc etc. Pics to follow. It also came apart so much easier then the K100 one, and has the added advantage of the case being badd ass factory blaaack baby.

Any opinions on the after market digital instrument units such as the Vapour Trail Tech on a K bike? 

I have a beautiful set of instruments here off an 86 K100LT but I dont think they will work with my 84 RS...?...??

Maybe I sell all the instruments I have to fund a new digital set???

No probs, I'm doing the 16v RS clutch in the next few weeks (school hols and a little time on my hands). After that it will be available.

Al

floyd wrote:Any opinions on the after market digital instrument units such as the Vapour Trail Tech on a K bike? 

I have a beautiful set of instruments here off an 86 K100LT but I dont think they will work with my 84 RS...?...??

Maybe I sell all the instruments I have to fund a new digital set???

Most of the after market instruments are missing one light as most of the jap stuff doesn't have a low fuel light and the Knobs that make them don't give a rubber rats ring hole about  BMWs

RicK G wrote:

floyd wrote:Any opinions on the after market digital instrument units such as the Vapour Trail Tech on a K bike? 

I have a beautiful set of instruments here off an 86 K100LT but I dont think they will work with my 84 RS...?...??

Maybe I sell all the instruments I have to fund a new digital set???

Most of the after market instruments are missing one light as most of the jap stuff doesn't have a low fuel light and the Knobs that make them don't give a rubber rats ring hole about  BMWs

In that case RickG, what are the chances of being able to fit the 86 instruments to the 84 bike? (In your humble opinion?)

Floyd you can use the 86 instruments on the 84  ,,,just have to change the electronic board for the fuel sender out of the 84 into the 86

I recon the driver circuits of the rev counter and speedo are better in the later models anyhow ...less over swing (possible components review )

charlie99 wrote:Floyd you can use the 86 instruments on the 84  ,,,just have to change the electronic board for the fuel sender out of the 84 into the 86

I recon the driver circuits of the rev counter and speedo are better in the later models anyhow ...less over swing (possible components review )

oooooh wonderful news charlie! As they say in the NT - deadly bro!

inge is the source ...I think he will confirm this
good luck

Duck knows a bit about doing that swap.

indeed

question of style....

What color 'bark busters' do I go for gents?

- Black
- Red
- Orange

Blue they'll match your knuckles on a freezing cold morning

lol !

floyd wrote:question of style....

What color 'bark busters' do I go for gents?

- Black
- Red
- Orange

Chrome, flash as a rat with with a gold tooth.

floyd wrote:

charlie99 wrote:Floyd you can use the 86 instruments on the 84  ,,,just have to change the electronic board for the fuel sender out of the 84 into the 86

I recon the driver circuits of the rev counter and speedo are better in the later models anyhow ...less over swing (possible components review )

oooooh wonderful news charlie! As they say in the NT - deadly bro!

If you want both the 4 and 7 L lamp to function, you also must change the conductive film and its plastic frame....................but most owners find the 7 L just annoying.

Thought Id take the opportunity to upload a pic or 2 while the rain passes over...

Sprag clutch cleaned and going back together....





My ever so humble 'workshop'. Parts storage at the far end, parts washer at the end of the bench

Oooooooh yeah - - - Milestones ya'll!

Zen master says - One step at a time.....one step at a time.....one step at a time......

 "Ever so humble..." but what more does a mechaniK need ??  It's clean and tidy, serves you well so to see !
Good job, keep on listening to the Zenmaster !! This one turns out fine, I'm sure...

Cheers

Jos

good news Floyd ...nice to see it getting back together

good work !

Yay! New El-Cheapo bearing puller arrived this morning, which beautifully coincided with me chucking a sicky...











Now I just need to devise a way of extracting the old seal in the end of the input shaft after Ive bloody pressed the thing in place while removing the bearing.....

I am about to put the gearbox cases in the oven to heat them sufficiently to knock the bearing races out...


Do I need to remove this green bit, and if so, how?


But really, first things first.... how do I remove the races?!?!?

And if I use the bearing puller to install a bearing under the following conditions, will it damage the bearining.,.

Ok, I have a 'knife edge bearing splitter' (I think) that you can attach some bits to and make it a puller. If I flip it over, so the side making contact with the bearing is totally flat, and the bearing is being contacted on both the inner and the out race, is it safe to pull it home? Or do you only ever want to be contacting with the inner race and never the out race?

I dont have a tube long enough or wide enough to get a bearing over the output splines

floyd wrote:And if I use the bearing puller to install a bearing under the following conditions, will it damage the bearining.,.

Ok, I have a 'knife edge bearing splitter' (I think) that you can attach some bits to and make it a puller. If I flip it over, so the side making contact with the bearing is totally flat, and the bearing is being contacted on both the inner and the out race, is it safe to pull it home? Or do you only ever want to be contacting with the inner race and never the out race?

I dont have a tube long enough or wide enough to get a bearing over the output splines

You should never pull on the outer race if you are putting a new bearing on, there is a good chance you will damage it.

A long socket that fits over the shaft may do the job

maybe heat Floyd   get the temp of the whole case up to about 200 .....then with freeze spray in hand (we all have that don't we ?)
spray the inner bearing outer with the freeze so it shrinks in the case

a few taps upside down should promote it to falling out ...before the heat transfer has time to take effect

some leather gloves might be needed to manipulate the whole darn thing at that temp ???

just a theory worth trying ......I had a mechanic mate years ago, that started buying freeze spray from me after playing with this idea .

So...big day in gear box land...and it went a little something like this...

Woke up, thought of K and decided at once to chuck a sickie

Opened another K100 gearbox I have here and removed the shafts. After cleaning them up a bit I did a pretty thorough inspection. 

It looked pretty nice I have to say, nice enough to make me go and re inspect the ones out of the main gearbox Im working on. One the original 84RS gearbox that I was planning to use, I noticed a bit of wear on one of the gears and a little bit less wear on its matching gear. This is wear and abrasion that is not present on the shafts from the other box, so I made an executive decision to use the Output/Intermediate shaft from the 2nd gearbox, and the Input shaft (and everything else) from the 1st gearbox.






Id then realised that I had been a bit pre-emptive on the fitting of the GPI seal and the gear lever seal, as I needed to heat the entire case in the oven to permit the removal of a bearing race inside the case. Bugger, 2 seals wasted....

I started re-stripping the gearbox case just as the postie arrived with my nice (cheap) new bearing puller set. Off to work pulling bearings off shafts then! After some initial fiddling, the bearings were popping right off, sweet as. 

All the new bearings went on without a hitch, except the one on the output shaft at the end with the splines. I didnt have a socket or bar wide and deep enough for the job. No worries! Off to the local mechanic who has helped me several times now with such things   




I then popped the main gearbox case in the oven on a fairly low heat (to low in fact) and wait an hour or so, took it out side, banged the crap out of it on a wooden block - all to no avail. The bugger wouldnt move.

The race in the cover plate is able to be carefully knocked out with a punch, and this is what I did - but alas, the one in the case is not.....

I decided to put it back in the oven at about 200c for about 45 mins. Took it outside, banged it once, and jingaling, out pops the race, in goes the new one, piece of cake.

Soooo, all the new bearings are on, except the last one on the input shaft - need to do some measurements first. The Intermediate and output shafts are in their new homes. Just need to do the preload and endfloat measurements etc and finish the assembly and reconditioned gearbox, hear we come.

forgot to mention...

The circlip at the end of the input shaft, holding the bearing on was a bastard to get off and had to be replaced.

A phone call to the local bearing shop, home to Sydney's grumpiest old men, delivered the desired results. I swung by, expecting a bit of ho hum, but instead all I got was a free circlip! The bloke couldnt be bothered typing up the paper work!

To bad I installed the bearing and circlip first instead of the more appropriate late. Had to take them both off again to fit all the other bits and pieces of that end of the input shaft, destroying the new circlip in the process. 

Believe it or not, I have a few pairs of really nice circlip pliers....its just the ones that are the perfect size for this job had their tips broken off my my wifes old 'bull' style nose ring when using them to remove it one day....but I digress...


Going back a few days (and a few pics above) I dismantled and clean the starter sprag clutch out of the k1100. Between the manuals and the great guide on here, It was a piece of cake. I was debated weather or not to strip it right down, or just wash it as best as possible while in situ. IN the end, glad I decided to strip it down as it was easy to do, and fairly dirty. No dramas to speak of on its tear down, wash and reassembly.

Did you pull the bearing and gear back away from the clip before trying. They usually just fall off when you do that and you have to pull the gear and bearing back against the clip when assembling.

RicK G wrote:Did you pull the bearing and gear back away from the clip before trying. They usually just fall off when you do that and you have to pull the gear and bearing back against the clip when assembling.

Silly bloody me - no I didnt...  

Im just please the bearing shop has them as a standard item. Having to order one from the UK would have sucked. 



So, almost ready to put the clutch and gearbox in - very happy indeed. However the next snag has presented itself....I dont have a torque wrench capable of doing up the clutch nut to the require 140nm (or thereabouts)...and the engine unit is getting to be a bit heavy to load it into the car and head off to my best mate the local brake mechanic....

Also, had ordered some of the OEM Suzuki hose clamps from an Aussy online source. 6 weeks later they still havnt arrived so I call the bloke who informs me they are no longer a Suzuki dealer and their web people accidental put the webshop live for a week or so when it should have been dead and gone....So, the hunt for reusable hose clamps continues....then on go the cleaned up K1100 throttle bodies and injectors (cleaned my the local brake mechanic in his ultrasonic cleaner) into the brand spanking new throttle body manifold rubbers - man, am I glad they werent in the little white box thats been swallowed by the safe place....they were 25 squids each!

All I used was the clamps from other places on the injectors. I didn't have any problems fitting them and you have a few spare bikes to raid.

Check them out I think you'll find they do the job.

... then on go the cleaned up K1100 throttle bodies and injectors (cleaned my the local brake mechanic in his ultrasonic cleaner) into the brand spanking new throttle body manifold rubbers

Floyd,   Have you a plan for fitting the TPS on the new throttle bodies?  If not, consider swapping the butterfly shaft in TB4 with an old one from one of the K100 throttle bodies.  Fitting the TPS will be a breeze afterwards.

Thanks to both Rick and Rob for the above to pieces of gold knuggety goodness...


Just swung by the bearing shop again and bid good morning to Sydneys grumpiest old men, where I ever so gratefully received my 2nd free 19x1.5 circlip. Hooray for local bearing shops.

As I arrived back at home I am greeted by an enormous box from motobins, sweet times indeed.