RicK G wrote:If you need to repair the side covers or any other plastic this stuff is good gear http://www.threewayworks.com.au/plastex-2

I have both side covers and a major fairing mount fixed with good old 2 part araldite. They have both held for the 18 years I have had the bike.

If you torque down 1, 2 and 3, then all gaps at those points are eliminated.  The remaining points, 4 and 5, will reveal gaps depending on how aligned the frame was at the time of manufacture.  So, fill the gaps to minimize distortion in the frame when the final bolts are torqued.

My gut feel is to follow the BMW factory advice and screw Haynes.  I only follow Hanyes if the factory manual is non-specific.  In this case, the factory is pretty specific.

Ok sweet, thanks mate. Will go with the BMW manual. 

Ive also left that air seal thingy out at the farm, so will have to secure the frame without it...  oh well...lets hope with a bit of lube and elbow grease it will slip right back in

rossko wrote:

RicK G wrote:If you need to repair the side covers or any other plastic this stuff is good gear http://www.threewayworks.com.au/plastex-2

I have both side covers and a major fairing mount fixed with good old 2 part araldite. They have both held for the 18 years I have had the bike.

If you don't have the bits that broke off then you can make new bits with that stuff.

damn....while mounting the frame, ive hit a snag while getting the front right mount bolt in....

With very very little force at all, its stripped out the mount thread in the cylinder block....

Although, on closer inspection, it may have just forced out a repair thingy....

this is what came out....its pretty hard, definitely not aluminium...




How to proceed?

Looks like a helicoil to me and it hasn't been put in very well or it would have stayed put.
If you aren't going to have crash bars then you could drill right through and use a nut, I think you would need to make a flat end on the exit of the hole.

Do you not reckon I could use a nut ( with perhaps a spare left hand mount bolt which is longer) while still using the crash bars?

The stock nut from the RH side will not fit between the 'fins' on the inside side of the mounting point on the engine block....

You may be able to pick up some thread further down the hole

RicK G wrote:You may be able to pick up some thread further down the hole

Not following, do you mean the bolt wil poke through enough to get the nut as it rests against the ' fins', or there may be enough original thread left in the hole, or something else??

There is usually about an inch of thread in those holes and a helicoil is only 1/2 in long so there may be some of the original thread left or some of the recut thread to insert the helicoil.
When I was building a new engine for the drag bike I used to helicoil every thread and put 2 coils down the holes for the main bearing bolts through the cases Maybe you could get 2 in that hole.

RicK G wrote:There is usually about an inch of thread in those holes and a helicoil is only 1/2 in long so there may be some of the original thread left or some of the recut thread to insert the helicoil.
When I was building a new engine for the drag bike I used to helicoil every thread and put 2 coils down the holes for the main bearing bolts through the cases Maybe you could get 2 in that hole.

Thanks mate, will go don the head torch and investigate. 

Hypothetically speaking, if the threads were shot, would it be possible to drill it out bigger, tap it bigger and use the next size up helicoil, then use another helicoil inside that one? Id image not, especially on an engine mount...but would like to know.

Ok, just had a look by torch light.

Your right Rick. They re-tapped the entire 1 inch or so hole, but the helicoil only went in the first half of that. The forst half is totaly stripped out, but the last looks to be untouched (since the re-tap).

So That should be enough for a new helicoil then id guess...


Out of curiosity, why did you say that using a bolt would only be ok if I wasnt to use the crash bars again? (or words to similar affect)

Worth trying. I'm not sure about 1 helicoil inside another. Might work if the threads were the same pitch and you can get 1.5mm pitch in 10 and 12mm threads. I would be more inclines to do a steel insert with a 14mm thread outside and 10 inside and top the hole to 14mm then red loctite the insert.
Might pay to investigate a 14mm spark plug, remove the gizzards and you might be able to tap the inside and remove the hex part.

Moving along to the forks today...

Stripped and painted lowers: 



Innards: 



Bit of damage  Its predominantly right bellow the lower triple clamp. Not sure of its totally clear of the fork travel zone and therefore stay clear of the seals or not. Have rubbed it down with fine wet/dry and its very smooth and not sharp....(those swirly marks were there when I got it..)

you're moving along at a swell pace there Flloyd, with some great results.
with the pitting on the forks , is that attributable to the rubber dust boots ,and caused by what sort of conditions? 
what suggestions to alleviate this in the future.
great work there Flloyd , hats off to you mate.

RicK G wrote:Worth trying. I'm not sure about 1 helicoil inside another. Might work if the threads were the same pitch and you can get 1.5mm pitch in 10 and 12mm threads. I would be more inclines to do a steel insert with a 14mm thread outside and 10 inside and top the hole to 14mm then red loctite the insert.
Might pay to investigate a 14mm spark plug, remove the gizzards and you might be able to tap the inside and remove the hex part.

Good idea. Will talk to the uncles and get them to machine something for me.

You reckon aluminium would be the go, or stainless?

304 grade stainless would be better than aluminium. Stainless and aluminium don't get on very well so the lower grade stainless the better but I would just use plain steel.

Right....time to fix this busted engine mount....options as follows:

(I would much rather do the long term fix now, but it will take time and Im anxious to get on with assembly.)


LONG TERM FIX:

A) get my uncles to make a new internal/external threaded sleeve to go in, lock tight on the outside to lock it into the engine block. Then the original engine mount bolt just goes right in like new. (or any volunteers to knock up something like this?)


SHORT TERM FIX:

B) get a new helicoil insert for the remaining 1/2inch of intact thread from the last time this was repaired. I assume this would be enough to support the load? It was obviously all that was holding it last time around....

OR

C) Grind off a section of the 'fins' on the backside/inside of the aluminium engine mount thingy on the block. This would then allow a spare engine mount bolt to pass right through and be held in place with a nut.

OR

D) Grind of 1.5mm each side of the nut so it fits between the 'fins'



You cant see it in that pic, but there is about 1/2 inch of the 'original' thread that was cut when the helicoil insert went in who-knows-when.

This pic also shows the 'fins' I mentioned. The stock nut wont fit between these fins.

groverK wrote:you're moving along at a swell pace there Flloyd, with some great results.
with the pitting on the forks , is that attributable to the rubber dust boots ,and caused by what sort of conditions? 
what suggestions to alleviate this in the future.
great work there Flloyd , hats off to you mate.

Thanks mate, hopeing to have it running by the Alpine rally, but I would say thats more then a tad optimistic. Just trying to methodically work through it all, but structure the process as efficiently as possible from a time management point of view. 

It also really really helps that I saved up the budget for this project in advance, soo all the money for parts etc is sitting there, and when ever I need something Im able to just pull the trigger and get it immediately, which is just brilliant!

No idea what caused the pitting in the first place. Perhaps just some light damage from stones etc and the corrosion worked its way in while the bike was sitting out in the weather for a few years. I tried to haggle the guy down on price over this pitting (as it was mainly for the front end that I wanted the K1100) but he was a grumpy horder and would not budge at all. This bloke had at least 16 semi dismantled Puegots and Volvos on his Sydney block. And the house was jam packed with old stereo equipment that he bought off ebay.....anyways, I digress...

I will be fitting fork gaitors to the forks when they go back together and will keep a vigilant eye on the pitting and halt it from proceeding any further....I have all new fork seals and dust cover thingys as well as the gaitors.

Hey Floyd, it may be possible to cut a  piece of flat plate about 1 inch long that will fit between the alloy fins, then mark and drill hole in plate to tap the right size thread > Just an idea

Flloyd , I would avoid cutting / altering the fins , due to structural integrity at this location.
I'd expect any bolt passing through this location would need to be fitted firmly , no slack , so rethreading the hole would be my next thought.
shaving a nut down to fit between the fins would be a definite short term fix, again the bolt would need to be firm in the hole , to reduce any vibration or movement which may lead to shearing down the track.
Smithy that thought had passed my mind as well, I even started sketching it up, but scrapped it.
do you think that if Flloyd has the time he'd be best to rethread the existing hole and do it properly straight away. who knows what result may come from a temporary fix.

groverK wrote:. who knows what result may come from a temporary fix.

You usually find out when you're more than a sufficient distance from home/shed/tools.

hmmmm ok then....no cutting corners then. 

What about the helicoil option? Any opinions on that one?


Ok, so assuming I get a sleeve fabricated to go in. Is it out of the question to continue with assembly, then when the sleeve arrives I can just pivot the frame (and what ever is attached - within reason) on the rear mounts, prop up the front, fit the sleeve, lover the frame down again, and away we go? Or should I just wait until it arrives before commencing any further with the assembly?

combine the helicoil AND the shaved down nut on the outside?

Im getting desperate  its a public holiday and I want to get some work done!! hehe

Go for the sleeve, and wait to mount the frame and this&that.

It's easier to do a proper job when cutting the threads for the sleeve
when frame and this&that is out of the way.........is my opinion.

I would sleeve it but seeing that the bolt is 10mm try to get a nut with a 14mm hex they do exist but usually in stainless. They are considered to be for a metric fine thread which is what those special bolts are.

RicK G wrote: They are considered to be for a metric fine thread which is what those special bolts are.

Sorry Rick, which special bolts?
.
.
.
.
Nevermind...........it's rater late on this side of the pea.

RicK G wrote:I would sleeve it but seeing that the bolt is 10mm try to get a nut with a 14mm hex they do exist but usually in stainless. They are considered to be for a metric fine thread which is what those special bolts are.

Not sure I follow  mate. What's the nut for if its going to be sleeved?

Sorry should have explained better.
I would sleeve it, that is the precisely correct solution. Seeing its going to take time for that you could use a nut with a 14mm hex. To add a bit more you could use a 3/8 UNF which will have a 9/16 nut which will most likely fit. If you intend to use the crash bars then the latter wont apply.
Actually you may not be able to use the special bolt due to required length or is it the other side that has the long bolt.

ahhhh right, thanks Rick, that makes senses now.


This is what I think Ill do....

-Remove the frame.
-Drill out the mount to 14mm (any tips on doing this to ensure the new hole is as centred as possible? Or will the bit tend to find its own centre in the old hole?)
-Tap the 14mm hole
-Refit frame and continue with assembly.
-Get the Uncles to make the sleeve, post it to me.
-Remove the radiator and anything else in the way, screw the sleeve in from the back side of the mount
-Insert mount bolt. 

Sweet as.

As far as the threads of the mount bolt etc go, are they standard metric threads? Im not an engineer or mechanic or anything (Im a farmer) and am largely unfamiliar with the lingo here. 
What I am asking is this: Exactly what do I tell the uncles I want them make me?

Gents, I just once more want to thank you all for your remarkable advise and assistance! And for accommodating my never ending barrage of Kwestions.

1 steel sleeve:

35mm long
14mm O.D.
10mm I.D.

Not sure about the thread specs?

For a 14mm thread I would use the course thread which will require a 12mm drill to tap the hole to a 14 x1.5mm thread
And send a sample of the bolt to go into the insert, there isn't anything worse than a FUP.
The drill will probably follow the hole provided you are close to alignment.

RicK G wrote:There is usually about an inch of thread in those holes and a helicoil is only 1/2 in long so there may be some of the original thread left or some of the recut thread to insert the helicoil.
When I was building a new engine for the drag bike I used to helicoil every thread and put 2 coils down the holes for the main bearing bolts through the cases Maybe you could get 2 in that hole.

The engine mount hole is 35mm long and has 15 mm thread, with what I think is a factory fitted heli coil.
I just inspected three engines that I have here , and all three have original heli coils. I believe this is done to strengthen the thread for required torque. So as Rick said if there is any reasonable thread to be had , I would try another heli coil.

smithy wrote:

RicK G wrote:There is usually about an inch of thread in those holes and a helicoil is only 1/2 in long so there may be some of the original thread left or some of the recut thread to insert the helicoil.
When I was building a new engine for the drag bike I used to helicoil every thread and put 2 coils down the holes for the main bearing bolts through the cases Maybe you could get 2 in that hole.

The engine mount hole is 35mm long and has 15 mm thread, with what I think is a factory fitted heli coil.
I just inspected three engines that I have here , and all three have original heli coils. I believe this is done to strengthen the thread for required torque. So as Rick said if there is any reasonable thread to be had , I would try another heli coil.

oooooh interesting development...


So is there only 15mm of thread/helicoil in yours that you have there?

Mine looks like this:

35mm hole, from one side to the other.
The thread looks like it began at about 13mm inside the hole.
The thread looks like it extended all the way to the end of the hole, so around 25-27mm. 
The helicoil seems to have stripped out a bit less than half of that thread distance, and looks like there was only about 12-15mm of helicoil within the 25mm thread....

So, there is 14mm+ thread remaining in the hole.

Just had a look at 2 blocks here and no inserts so maybe the guy you got those from used a tonne/furlong tension wrench  
One of the blocks has a stripped thread so maybe it is fairly common.

Did you mean 15mm of thread in the hole, my thread list has a 15mm thread but would not be used in aluminium.

ahhhh bugger it.


The answer is thus: It must be sleeved. 

Would be silly to half arse this. 

Damn you time!

Ok, off to the hardware to get a 12mm bit and a 14mmx1.5mm tap....


I imagine it wouldnt be much more work to a make a few of these. Any of you super contributors want one (potentially)?

RicK G wrote:Just had a look at 2 blocks here and no inserts so maybe the guy you got those from used a tonne/furlong tension wrench  
One of the blocks has a stripped thread so maybe it is fairly common.

Did you mean 15mm of thread in the hole, my thread list has a 15mm thread but would not be used in aluminium.

Out of curiosity, I'll go nock the bolt out of the rs which I know has never been out before, seems odd to me that three out of three engines, from completely different sources are the same. All have heli coils , and only 1/2 the 35mm hole is threaded.

i just checked my spare engine ,theres a ca.15mm long heli coil in the end towards the middle of the engine ,the remains of the 35mm is a smooth 11mm bore.

k-rider

RicK G wrote:For a 14mm thread I would use the course thread which will require a 12mm drill to tap the hole to a 14 x1.5mm thread
And send a sample of the bolt to go into the insert, there isn't anything worse than a FUP.
The drill will probably follow the hole provided you are close to alignment.

hi rick i just checked out the metric threads it seems the 14mm is 14*2mm and therefore needs a 12mm drill  

k-rider


Metrisk gevind - ISO norm - 60° (DS 976)[th]Gevind[/th][th]Stigning[/th][th]Bund Ø - møtrik[/th][th]Bund Ø - skrue[/th][th]Bor[/th]

1	0,25	0,729	0,693	0,8
1,2	0,25	0,929	0,893	1,0
1,4	0,3	1,075	1,032	1,1
2	0,4	1,567	1,509	1,6
2,5	0,45	2,013	1,948	2,1
3	0,5	2,459	2,387	2,5
3,5	0,6	2,850	2,764	2,9
4	0,7	3,242	3,141	3,3
4,5	0,75	3,688	3,580	3,8
5	0,8	4,134	4,019	4,2
6	1,0	4,918	4,773	5,0
7	1,0	5,918	5,773	6,0
8	1,25	6,647	6,466	6,8
10	1,5	8,376	8,160	8,5
12	1,75	10,106	9,853	10,2
14	2,0	11,835	11,546	12
16	2,0	13,835	13,546	14

just maesured the engine mount, it measures 22,5 mm on the outside ,so tapping a 14mm thread would leave 4,25 mm on the outside of the thread, this might be sufficient , but surrely is a bit less than original, about inserting the sleeve from the engine side with the frame on, it might be difficult , since there is JUST 14 mm of space between the fins.

in this situation (you have done a lot of work on the engine) i would go for the threaded sleeve solution,i think it will work just fine.


hope this helps

k-rider 

A 14 x 2mm thread requires an 11.27mm drill or to be a bit practical a 7/16".  If you use a 12mm drill the bolt will be loose in the thread and seeing it's an insert I do not see that as desirable.
I can see what that chart says and it is not right.  A 12mm drill is the tapping drill for a 14 x 1.5mm thread.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8mue07cipwvjcf/Screw%20thread%20specs%20and%20info.docx

Just spoke to my Uncle in Gladstone. 

He reckons they do that kind of sleeve thing all the time. He said they used bolts of the correct diameter, drill out the centre, tap it, bolt it into its home and then trim the ends of the bolt off.

He reckons 14mm bolts are rare, but he has a 14mm tap at work so may be able to make something. We'll see.

So the 12mm drilled hole will be tapped out to 14mm with 1.5mm deep threads?? Is that correct?

Just FYI if your curious. My engine mount hole is 35mm deep. Half of that is smooth bore at 12mm and the rest is threaded, and the hole is less then 12mm, as a 12mm drill bit will pass through the first smooth bore bit, but not the rest. 



hmmmmm what a day. Got very little of worth done. 

Reassembled the forks, then f*&cked the paint on one, so have put another coat on both (this time satin instead of matt and I dont like it but it will freakin do!)

What else....sanded the muck and crap off the exhaust headers. Was going to do them matt black but will leave them as 'brushed' steel. You guys will love this....I was orignally going to do them 'Britten-Exhaust-Header-Pink'

Sadly thats it for today...oh well, had fun.

RicK G wrote:A 14 x 2mm thread requires an 11.27mm drill or to be a bit practical a 7/16".  If you use a 12mm drill the bolt will be loose in the thread and seeing it's an insert I do not see that as desirable.
I can see what that chart says and it is not right.  A 12mm drill is the tapping drill for a 14 x 1.5mm thread.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8mue07cipwvjcf/Screw%20thread%20specs%20and%20info.docx

rick , sorry to hear you disagree with the chart  ,wich after all aplies to the international standards ISO-norm. 
i dont see any specified drill sizes in your chart??
i can understand why you want a tight fit on the insert , since it is not possible to fasten it against a bolt head, i just would not choose the smallest meassure , risking to ruin it in the process .

just my experrience      .

maybe just hear what the uncles says..


k-rider

The mob I buy bolts from don't even list 14mm bolts but do list 14mm threaded rod at 14 x 2mm.
They have a place in Sydney
Unit 2 / 20 Sedgwick St,
Smeaton Grange  NSW  2567,
Australia.

Ph:  (02) 4648 3844
Fax: (02) 4648 4376

Email: smeaton.grange@bolt.com.au

The whole thing is becoming a bit academic as it looks like 14 x 2 will have to be it.
Maybe an easier option.  A 9/16 bolt would be easier to get although it is bigger in diameter than 14mm but only by 0.3mm

@ k rider the drill size is extrapolated from the thread diameter at the bottom of the thread.

Looking further you will have to go to BSW threaded rod as that is the only way I can see of getting 9/16 in mild steel otherwise it is high tensile and that isn't fun to tap weather it be Gr5 or Gr8.

ahhhh bless the uncles....

Just texted one of them about the threaded rod, he called straight back saying "mate, your other unlce is working tonight - Ive got him on the job. He has found a 14mm die to post you, and he reckons we use 14mm bolts in the cranes, so he is gonna grab one, drill it out and tap it for 10mm and post it tomorrow"

sweet as!

Gees can I borrow one of those uncles for a few weeks 

Nice to have a family like that  

k-rider

At what point to the steering head bearing out races rest?

Flush with the frame?

I have an old bearing here that is the exact same dia. as the outer race. Ill use that as a drift.

Was a bit stuck in regards to fitting the lower inside race on the stem, but just managed to get it on using the old inner race (but upside down) as a drift to get the new one on - worked a charm.

Have decided to paint the swing arm black, as all 3 that I have show heaving corrosion scars that wont come off with a steel brush, and I dont want to destroy the cast texture. So, priming and painting it is. Its going to be a bit hodge podge - but hey - when form follows function, you cant go wrong

Got the swing arm bearings out buy chucking the entire piece in the oven, then tapped them out on a block of wood.

Etch primer I used was shit and the paint never dried on it. I scrubbed it all off with kero and low and behold, the aluminium looks alot nicer then it did pre painting. So, bare the swing arm shall now be.

Got it fitted with new bearings, new rubber boot and a new circlip to hold the boot in (the bearing shop still like to give me free cir clips) and its now fitted to the gearbox. The swing arm pivot bolts cleaned up very nicely indeed. Only thing is - I forgot to lube the GB output shaft, so I will have to take it off again. Oh well, its easy as. Also, the pivot joint on the 1 drive shaft I have with decent splines is shot. Dont know why I didnt notice this before, but Im now driveshaftless. In need of a decent 16 tooth drive shaft people

Got my new K1100 centre/side stand assembly cleaned up and painted fresh. 

Started cleaning up my only decent (spline wise) final drive. The rotor is 4.9mm which is over spec (according to clymer) and was covered in surface rust, but cleaned up ok and the local brake mechanic guy who I pester once a week (for his press) reckons its fine. One of the bolts which holds the rotor on has been sheered off and I will need an 'easy-out' to get it out. I have spare bolts here. 

The seal at the pinion drive splines looks warped and deformed, but there was no evidence of an oil leak in my opinion. Just heaps of rust coloured shit flung every where. 

I am literally in between jobs right now (just quit one - start the new one on Monday) so have shot out to the farm (compressor and spray gun here) to finish painting my tank, tail and RS nose fairing. Camo green - here we come!

The 14mm - 10mm bolt is in the post along with a 14mm tap set (tapered and butt?) care of the Uncles in Gladestone. Bloody legends. 

Do you think I should tap the entire 35mm length of the engine mount on the block, or just tap down 25mm or so, so the sleeve butts up against something? I have no idea, just thought about it on the drive out here today.

Anyways, back to priming/painting and sorting through my parts depot  Anybody need any K100 parts while im here?

Sounds like you're Having fun.
I would only tap in far enough to make the surfaces even.