I'm looking at changing all the bulbs in my K1100LT to LED.

Has anyone researched this to the point of having links to a UK supplier, for the necessary bulbs..?

Many thanks, as always much appreciated!

You need resistors for some of them, its not a case of a straight swap. Flashers won't work right, bulb monitor is also affected and the alternator warning light needs the load to excite the alternator into action.

As for headlight bulbs, tried a load of them and they were all crap.

High wattage H4 with relays and ceramic bulb holder is a much better improvement. I tried a 160/130W in my K and it was magical but you can get lower ones like I think 130/110 and some around 100/80 or thereabouts. First off just fit the relays as the improvement in the electrical connection also brings an improvement and improves the life of the handlebar switches. I have an 84RT and I did read somewhere that there was a change in the headlight construction to a plastic interior but the one in the 92LT looks identical to me.

I have to disagree with Olaf on some points here. 
You do not need any resistors for the indicators. There is a simple and free trick that can be done on the flasher unit to make them flash as normal. If you have to use resistors then there is no point in fitting LEDs as there are no gains.
Use a normal bulb in the charge light to save yourself any possibility of hassle with charging.
LED headlights do not work at all as an aftermarket bulb change.
Do not use higher wattage H4 halogen bulbs, if you double the wattage (a measure of power consumption) then you might get about 20% more light (measured in lumen) but you risk unreliability and burning of wires. Do the relay mod instead. 
I have been buying LEDs from ebay China for years without any problems, why bother trying to find a local supplier who has bought them from ebay China and is just a middleman?

We are saying same thing on the headlights, as in if you do fit higher wattage headlight bulb don't even consider doing it without the relay and associated wiring.

The ceramic bulb H4 holders I got came with higher rated wiring attached for connection to the relay so the original bike wiring is reduced from powering the headlight to simply controlling/switching the relay, much less load on the switch. Due to age fitting the relay will inevitably bring some improvement in light quality. None of the original bike wiring should be used for high wattage headlight bulb power. That will be new wiring from the battery to the relay, with the new ceramic bulb holder having the wiring from the relay to the bulb holder and bulb terminals.

I use the K all year and live on rural roads like BobT's, in winter being further north our days are much shorter and the headlight improvement is badly needed.

Sound advice on the charging light, as in don't change it.

And....the indicators bulbs are not a straight swap. So what is the flasher modification?

As for buying LED bulbs, they all seem to come from China.....

Just like all Christmas puddings come from the land of Eccentrics.....

Olaf, the indicator bulbs can be a straight swap. a fitment of small LED panels inside the indicator, or a complete change of indicator to an LED one. Sometimes that last option can also incorporate extra brake lights in the LED indicator as I have on my Ducati. See:LINK.
This general post about some types of LED panel might interest people too: LINK
And to a post that is more K100 and LED specific: LINK
As to the Flasher unit mod, all it involves is cutting a leg off the 8 legged IC within the flasher unit. It takes no more than 15 minutes to do and makes the indicators flash at a "normal rate" even if they are all LED or all Incandescent bulbs. By fitting a resistor all you are doing is wasting power (the reason for LEDs is to reduce power consumption) by heating up a resistor. I never blogged about the modification as it is well documented all over the internet.
The Christmas puddings do indeed come from the Republic of Ireland and I should know as mine was delivered to France inside a crash helmet (they are delicate) via Ryanair last year, and I thank you again for that.
Having LEDs is all great stuff, and will bring any Brick a bit more up to date, bat all of the bricks have a decent output alternator and can cope with the old fashioned bulbs. My wife's Ducat ST2 however was built back in 1998 and is one of the last Ducatis to have a two phase alternator that is hardly capable of running a candle, therefore there have been great benefits in LEDs in everything. LED running lights to save using the headlight for long periods, but the headlight is a HID projector and that used much less power (35 watts) than a halogen bulb for 3 times the light output.
In Europe, and that still includes the UK, halogen bulbs that consume more than 60 watts are illegal on any vehicle.

David Nimrod wrote:I'm looking at changing all the bulbs in my K1100LT to LED.

Has anyone researched this to the point of having links to a UK supplier, for the necessary bulbs..?

Many thanks, as always much appreciated!

David, in addition to Bob's info.... there is a ton of info on LEDs for K-bikes as well as the relay modification on the forum. Just go to the Portal page and do a search using relevant keywords.
They are easily sourced off ebay these days.
The downside of using tungsten flasher bulbs is having to carry spares around. The last time I had to change a bulb, my spares had damaged filaments from rattling around in my ducktail.
 
I've tried a couple of LED headlights and IMO they are not up to scratch yet unless you buy the reeeally expensive ones. I've fitted the headlight relays to save my switches.
I think KKKlompy fitted LED headlight in his K1100LT. Hopefully he might Komment on that.

BobT

One solution could be to bring the K down south a bit, perhaps with a pudding in the duck tail........

I didn't have an issue with the headlights in the car because a nice friendly NCT [MOT] tester told me they that if you lower the focus as in nearer the vehicle then it will pass even with the higher wattage.......I know your bikes don't go to the dark wet north but those of us up here do need good lights.......

I don't see the point of resistors either, just a waste so the flasher mod is a good one.

This year's puddings are travelling a bit later. Due to a warmer summer up here the Aga is still off and no puddings until it's fired up a few days. At this rate it won't be for another few weeks as there is still decent camping weather and I missed my France trip this year. Looking at a big stack of pudding bowls that need filling for the Eccentrics Brunch too.

Thanks for all the info. will read, and digest it, later on today...

BobT wrote:
I have been buying LEDs from ebay China for years without any problems, why bother trying to find a local supplier who has bought them from ebay China and is just a middleman?

Good point, well made!

Modify flasher relay to run LED turn signals:

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/ledoemflrelay/ledoemflrelay.htm

Get rid of the BMU to run LED brake and tail lights:

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/bmu/bmu.htm

I would agree with Duck but for the fact that yet again I am looking at replacing a brake light switch. Darn things don't last long and I think only blew a rear bulb once or twice but the warning lets you know the brake light switch is on the way out.....

Solution like on some cars and a lot of newer bikes is twin rear light bulbs.

Or you can make the rear turn signals double as brake lights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_twRIPIPwsE

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I would agree with Duck but for the fact that yet again I am looking at replacing a brake light switch. Darn things don't last long and I think only blew a rear bulb once or twice but the warning lets you know the brake light switch is on the way out.....

Solution like on some cars and a lot of newer bikes is twin rear light bulbs.

I have done both mods that Duck is referring to, many years ago with no problems since. 
Olaf, you can have twin rear lights very easily. All you need to to replace one or both of the rear light bulbs with twin filament bulbs and you will have two rear and two brake lights, needs a bit of wiring but not hard.
Would you like me to build you a plug and play LED rear light for your bike? I have a spare light here and it would be a thanks for the Christmas pudding last year. You will have to do the BMU mod yourself as mentioned in Ducks thread above.

Actually Bob you just gave me an idea.

The Mercedes I had used to eat bulbs and now that I remember the twin filament rear light bulbholders that also caused the trouble look mighty like the ones in the K....Wonder would they fit in which case its a very easy mod to fit 2 of them and solder the wires.......Two twin filament bulbs.......


You don't need to do the light to get Christmas pudding, one will be arriving in time for Christmas....I know Jude will love one.

Direct replacement LED's that illuminate the instrument cluster, yes. 360 degree type is necessary.  Warm white is best, orange/amber is good too.  Alternator warning no, not enough current, turn signal tell-tales yes, but there is no direct replacement at least I have found. Brake lamp warning, yes.  Tail light, yes, brake light no, the warning system needs to see more current.  You will need to add a resistor in parallel.  Why bother?  Headlight, yes, but go with a quality single LED replacement.   This will have a big heatsink, some will stick out too far.  The rubber seal may need to be removed.  There is a type that used a whole bunch of surface mount LED's, no heatsink.  Don't do it.  They overheat, the solder melts and the LED's fall off.  The turn signals if changed to LED will not draw enough current to make the flasher work.

So, my bike?  I tried all sorts of LED replacements, the only that have stuck and are still on the bike are the back-lights for the instruments.
The rest are all back in and are incandescent.  WAH wah.

LED car and motorcycle replacement lamps in the UK - here..

http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/LED-Car-Bulbs-c-1337/?gclid=CJKA5vak6M8CFVKDfgod4nsFug

- John

John,
Thank you for a brilliant informative Post

I have also replaced the backlights on my 3 bikes with Led and have observed they don't steam up inside as badly as before. Probably due to the LEDs producing less heat. Standards back lights take about 1 amp. I have not measured the current used for the Led's.

The instrument back light illumination are three watt lamps, 3 watts at 13.8 volts = 217 ma, or about a little under a quarter of an amp each.  If there is any moisture in the instrument housing and the day is cool condensation can accumulate on the inside of the glass.  There are 5 of these wedge base type lamps in there, so about 15 watts of heat is generated, plenty to cause this effect.  LED replacements draw less current to generate the same brightness, condensation is less likely.

- John

The only problem with using leds is the fuel warning lights; they burn your eyeballs out at night and if it's raining, it's worse. There is a solution to that if you're willing to modify the circuit board. I added a switched 47K resistor into the power feed which does a really good job of dimming them at night.

I have an LED H4 headlight bulb in my K1100LT and it's like daylight at night. Some minor mods are required to the rubber cover on the back of the unit as the LED has a cooling fan at the rear of the bulb.
It's a brilliant upgrade, google Cyclops LED bulbs. Not cheap but worth it.

Motorbike Mike wrote:...google Cyclops LED bulbs...

Hi Mike, I've had a look here...

Is this the one you mean..?

Thanks!

That's it.
Not cheap but very good. I've also bought some cheaper LED H4's but not tried them yet.

Good luck.

Bet it won't pass an MOT with that bulb in it. LED headlights used on production vehicles are designed for LEDs and are not halogen reflector lights with an LED shoved into them.

My bike did pass the MoT test and even if I had to swap the bulb just for the test, I would.
The most important thing for me is that I'm highly visible to other road users and even with the brightest light available some of the idiots out there still don't see me or don't care if they pull out. 
I'm unsure if these bulbs are Canbus compatible but If I can find some H7's that are, I'll be fitting them in my R1200RS too.

No reason why it shouldn't. The MoT test simply checks the dip beam meets the cutoff requirements and that high beam works. As far as LEDs are concerned, if they're good enough then that's it. HIDs now; they're illegal for bikes because currently an HID has to have a headlight wpier/cleaner to go with it.

Dai wrote:No reason why it shouldn't. The MoT test simply checks the dip beam meets the cutoff requirements and that high beam works. As far as LEDs are concerned, if they're good enough then that's it. HIDs now; they're illegal for bikes because currently an HID has to have a headlight wpier/cleaner to go with it.

I think that you need to check vehicle regulations there mate because the need for a wiper/cleaner is for cars with HID and not motorcycles. BMW do not have a wiper on the K1600GTL as far as I know.

BobT wrote:

Dai wrote:No reason why it shouldn't. The MoT test simply checks the dip beam meets the cutoff requirements and that high beam works. As far as LEDs are concerned, if they're good enough then that's it. HIDs now; they're illegal for bikes because currently an HID has to have a headlight wpier/cleaner to go with it.

I think that you need to check vehicle regulations there mate because the need for a wiper/cleaner is for cars with HID and not motorcycles. BMW do not have a wiper on the K1600GTL as far as I know.

Would LED's require a wiper? They don't generate anything like the amount of heat that HID's do, andf I'm sure it's the heat that makes the road/wet dirt stick to the lens-hence the wiper.
It's only a couple of old K's were talking about here so I'm not sure that we need to clear it with Brussels!

BobT wrote:I think that you need to check vehicle regulations there mate because the need for a wiper/cleaner is for cars with HID and not motorcycles. BMW do not have a wiper on the K1600GTL as far as I know.

Admittedly, I should have been more accurate regarding HIDs - I was talking about aftermarket HID kits, not HID headlights designed from scratch. HID kits are illegal in the UK, period; the reason being is that they are incompatible with halogen headlamp optics and so fall foul of the Construction & Use Regulations (1986) and the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations (1989).

First of all, HIDs produce less heat than Halogen do. A 55 watt halogen produces a given amount of light energy and a given amount of heat energy.
A 35 watt HID produces about 3 times the light of the halogen and therefore much less heat energy.

HID kits in halogen optics (reflector headlights) are no worse than LED kits in the same. An LED can never replicate the size and position of a halogen filament.
LED headlights are a purpose designed headlight and available on some vehicles. HIDs can only be used in projector (as opposed to reflector) headlights. BMW K100s never had projector headlights bit some other BMW models did, the R1100S springs to mind.

I have HID in all of my bikes and my car, but they all have projector headlights. A HID kit including the Bi-xenon projector will cost around £20 for something that is used as is in the automotive industry, whereas an LED bulb costing £60+ in a reflector headlight is used by no one on a production vehicle.

BobT wrote:First of all, HIDs produce less heat than Halogen do. A 55 watt halogen produces a given amount of light energy and a given amount of heat energy.
A 35 watt HID produces about 3 times the light of the halogen and therefore much less heat energy.

HID kits in halogen optics (reflector headlights) are no worse than LED kits in the same. An LED can never replicate the size and position of a halogen filament.
LED headlights are a purpose designed headlight and available on some vehicles. HIDs can only be used in projector (as opposed to reflector) headlights. BMW K100s never had projector headlights bit some other BMW models did, the R1100S springs to mind.

I completely agree with all of this. What's the legal position with aftermarket HID kits in France?

The legal position in France is difficult to define as we have no MOT or any kind of road worthiness test here. It seems anything goes. But as I said I only have projectors headlights on my bikes and the K100 has no headlight at all yet!

BobT wrote:First of all, HIDs produce less heat than Halogen do. A 55 watt halogen produces a given amount of light energy and a given amount of heat energy.
A 35 watt HID produces about 3 times the light of the halogen and therefore much less heat energy.

HID kits in halogen optics (reflector headlights) are no worse than LED kits in the same. An LED can never replicate the size and position of a halogen filament.
LED headlights are a purpose designed headlight and available on some vehicles. HIDs can only be used in projector (as opposed to reflector) headlights. BMW K100s never had projector headlights bit some other BMW models did, the R1100S springs to mind.

I have HID in all of my bikes and my car, but they all have projector headlights. A HID kit including the Bi-xenon projector will cost around £20 for something that is used as is in the automotive industry, whereas an LED bulb costing £60+ in a reflector headlight is used by no one on a production vehicle.

I have to disagree about heat output. I have HID's in my T5 Transporter van and the HID bulbs in that have burnt the reflective coating off the back of the headlight! IMHO, LED's run cooler.

All we're discussing here is a bulb upgrade, not manufacturers using LED bulbs on production vehicles.

Motorbike Mike wrote:
All we're discussing here is a bulb upgrade, not manufacturers using LED bulbs on production vehicles.

BobT wrote:I have to disagree about heat output. I have HID's in my T5 Transporter van and the HID bulbs in that have burnt the reflective coating off the back of the headlight! IMHO, LED's run cooler.


Well there you go. You have put HIDs in a reflector headlight, that is illegal because they do things like dazzle oncoming drivers and destroy reflector headlights - the reason that HIDs should only be into projector headlights.


If you put 55 watts in a halogen bulb then an amount of that energy gets turned into light energy and the rest into heat energy.
If you put 35 watts (less than the halogen) into a HID which gives 3 times the light energy then there will be much less heat energy.

As you don't have an LED bulb for comparison I'm having difficulty giving any credibility to your comments. You will have the reflectors degrade on ALL your headlights too....just wait and see.
I've tried both types of unit.

The less watts going into the light the less heat coming out, even if the lower wattage gives more light.

Done the same at home, swapped the standard bulbs for led bulbs. The are much cooler to touch.

I changed reflectors in the car because they degraded with age and could not be cleaned. High wattage bulbs mean higher amount of condensation inside the lights and that doesn't help the reflectors.

I did try LED bulbs in the K and also in the car and they wore no good. I also tried a 160 watt H4 in the K and it was awesome but don't even thing abuot doing it unless you have a ceramic bulb holder and relays in.

Motorbike Mike wrote:

BobT wrote:I have to disagree about heat output. I have HID's in my T5 Transporter van and the HID bulbs in that have burnt the reflective coating off the back of the headlight! IMHO, LED's run cooler.


Well there you go. You have put HIDs in a reflector headlight, that is illegal because they do things like dazzle oncoming drivers and destroy reflector headlights - the reason that HIDs should only be into projector headlights.


If you put 55 watts in a halogen bulb then an amount of that energy gets turned into light energy and the rest into heat energy.
If you put 35 watts (less than the halogen) into a HID which gives 3 times the light energy then there will be much less heat energy.

As you don't have an LED bulb for comparison I'm having difficulty giving any credibility to your comments. You will have the reflectors degrade on ALL your headlights too....just wait and see.
I've tried both types of unit.

If you think that I am anti LED and that I have no LED bulbs then you are severely mistaken. I was building LED rear lights for bikes with a soldering iron and resistors many years before they were available as 12 volt bulbs. There are a couple of people on this forum who have been here and seen the masses of LEDs and other technology strewn around my office. 
I don't ask you to give me any credibility, do what you want but no manufacturer will use what you are are doing. End of conversation for me.

BobT wrote:

Motorbike Mike wrote:

BobT wrote:I have to disagree about heat output. I have HID's in my T5 Transporter van and the HID bulbs in that have burnt the reflective coating off the back of the headlight! IMHO, LED's run cooler.


Well there you go. You have put HIDs in a reflector headlight, that is illegal because they do things like dazzle oncoming drivers and destroy reflector headlights - the reason that HIDs should only be into projector headlights.


If you put 55 watts in a halogen bulb then an amount of that energy gets turned into light energy and the rest into heat energy.
If you put 35 watts (less than the halogen) into a HID which gives 3 times the light energy then there will be much less heat energy.

As you don't have an LED bulb for comparison I'm having difficulty giving any credibility to your comments. You will have the reflectors degrade on ALL your headlights too....just wait and see.
I've tried both types of unit.

If you think that I am anti LED and that I have no LED bulbs then you are severely mistaken. I was building LED rear lights for bikes with a soldering iron and resistors many years before they were available as 12 volt bulbs. There are a couple of people on this forum who have been here and seen the masses of LEDs and other technology strewn around my office.

I don't ask you to give me any credibility, do what you want but no manufacturer will use what you are are doing. End of conversation for me.

LED rear lights aren't the subject-it's headlights. As I've mentioned, it's just a few blokes with K's upgrading their HEADLIGHTS.
No-one questioned what's laid around your office either. "There are a couple of people on this forum who have been here and seen the masses of LEDs and other technology strewn around my office."  FFS!  We've all got stuff that we've failed with laid about the garage/workshop/office.

Calm down dear!

I have been to BobT's place in France and seen his LED set ups.

What BobT has worked out through his knowledge and some degree of trial and error is what we know, LED headlight bulbs don't work as a straight swap. You have to have the right headlight unit.

You two should meet up, you both have far more knowledge and skills than are apparent on the forum. You would get on well. September 2017 is when I will  be down there again.