OK, here's one for you learned people.

I have notice that recently that I seem to be having more and more trouble getting my K100 onto her centre stand. I have looked through previous posts on the subject but really don't want to start humping a chunk of wood around with me and am also quite sure that it is nothing to do with my "technique".

Rocking the bike backwards and forwards does achieve the aim, but it is a lot more effort than really necessary and I find that it needs me to press backwards with my right leg against the pannier, whilst putting as much weight as possible on the centre stand foot peg, as well as lifting the grab handle and heaving back hard on the handle bar grip. 

All other things equal, my level concrete garage floor hasn't changed, neither has my local filling station forecourt. I was starting to think that it was me being inflicted with gross weediness (my weight hasn't changed either - since I was 16!), but watched my local bike mechanic struggling with it yesterday when he was doing the annual mandated vehicle inspection (MoT in the UK). Incidentally, the bike passed with flying colours...always a relief!

Assuming that I haven't suddenly become weak and feeble, or that the bike has suddenly become much heavier in the last month or two, is this a sign of worn bushes, bearings or impending centre stand failure? The centre stand is situated in a pretty grotty place on the bike (pictures below bear witness to this) - subject to all the mud and cow shit that my friendly local farmers can spread on the road and the salt and grit that the local council occasionally scatter during icy weather. I can't see any grease nipples, so assume that the bushes and bearings are a routinely neglected part of the bike.

I have a different centre stand on my donor bike which I am tempted to fit to the newer bike - my current centre stand has always been a little harder to use than the previous one, I assumed it was just down the variance in design. I assume that the donor bike variant is the more "modern" version - I think it was changed by the PO.

Picture 1: Centre stand on donor bike (on 1990 LT)


Picture 2: Current centre stand (on 1991 LT)


There is no noticeable lateral play in the centre stand and it rotates freely by hand when unloaded (i.e. when the bike is on the side stand). 

Any suggestions, gratefully accepted?

Main reason I would guess is lack of grease, second worn bushings.....
which usually is a result of the first mentioned.

The one on the donor bike is from a 4V model, and better design...don't break that easy.

Inge K. wrote:Main reason I would guess is lack of grease, second worn bushings.....
which usually is a result of the first mentioned.

The one on the donor bike is from a 4V model, and better design...don't break that easy.

Thanks Inge K.

  

..that was kind of my assessment, but I thought it worth asking before diving in head first, especially as I am sure that the fasteners will prove to a be a pig to remove (years of neglect etc.). The hollow tube variant looks like a recipe for failure,  liable to rust away from the inside out.

The screws for the bracket and the pivot bolts is secured with Loctite, heat is needed.

About the grease nipples you don't find, you have it on the 4V stand.
On the 2V stand you find holes in the same positions, use a grease gun with a conical tip.

Inge K. wrote:The screws for the bracket and the pivot bolts is secured with Loctite, heat is needed.

About the grease nipples you don't find, you have it on the 4V stand.
On the 2V stand you find holes in the same positions, use a grease gun with a conical tip.

Yes - you're right, the 4V stand does have grease nipples and on closer inspection, I can feel a slight indent on the 2V stand in the place where the 4V has grease nipples. 

I will need to excavate all the mud and muck before getting grease anywhere near though. I'll probably go for a parallel approach - get some grease into the 2V stand and see what difference that makes (if the bushes are already worn though, this will only be a short term fix) and whip off the 4V stand from the donor bike and get it cleaned up (may be even look at fitting a lug for centre stand lock (I like Sidecar Paul's neat idea for this) and paint the whole thing with hammerite while it's off).

Need for heat noted, probably wise to order up some replacement screws/bolts before I begin too. 

Nice one Inge K. 

I have the 16v with the 16v stand.
When I changed the bushes I used an independent front wheel stand on the bike and just removed the whole bike stand assembly bracket from the bike, it only has four allen bolts I think. That way you can work on the bench. With the new bushes my bike goes onto the stand much easier.

It's also grease nipples/holes on the sidestand.

If new bushings is needed both Motobins/Motorworks/James Sherlock usually
have these in stock.....they are different 2V vs. 4V.

bikerboy wrote:I have the 16v with the 16v stand.
When I changed the bushes I used an independent front wheel stand on the bike and just removed the whole bike stand assembly bracket from the bike, it only has four allen bolts I think. That way you can work on the bench. With the new bushes my bike goes onto the stand much easier.

Thanks bikerboy - that would definitely make it easier (I've confirmed that it is 4 allen bolts that holds the stand assembly onto the frame)...if only I had a front wheel stand or a work bench(!). In the absence of either, I think I will have to persevere with removing the two loctite'd centre stand bolts.

As Inge K mentions, the bush and bolt kits are readily available and not too expensive (about £10 for the 2V version and £14 for the 16V (4V) ones. I'll be giving James Sherlock a call tomorrow...

My trusty Haynes manual is pretty useless on centre stand details, but I think I now have enough info to get cracking, with confidence.

About supporting the bike while removing the stand, have a look here.

Hi there, I would check the integrity of the stand, due to internal corrosion. When the pipe wall becomes thinner, the stand looses stiffness and deforms under the stress, that makes more difficult to raise the bike, and sooner than late it will break.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
JAP

Hi Paul, this is how I lift mine.......with extended axle stands.



Paul.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

Bikerboy - you're are right about taking off the whole centre stand and side stand assembly as being the easiest way. I managed to remove the right hand centre stand fastener (without needing heat...but only just, it sure was tight), but it was then immediately obvious that getting the left hand fastener out would be virtually impossible without removing the exhaust.

So on to plan B, remove the whole assembly. 

First problem how to support the bike. Sidecar Paul, I'd seen your solution on another post and it looks sturdy enough, unfortunately, I don't have extended axle stands or a steel bar kicking around in my garage - but it is something for me to look into in the future. Inge K also posted a pic of a similar solution using a wooden trestle (judging by the size of the timber, a bit more bike disassembly is required to fit the cross member through the frame). My cunning solution (for a Sunday evening when shops are well and truly shut), was to use my 3 way ladder as a lifting frame and a ½ tonne chain block (it didn't need to be ½ tonne, but that is the only one I have!). I passed the webbing strap trough the rear wheel and up either side of the seat. Keeping the amount of slack to a minimum, I then hooked the chain block up to the webbing strap and gently took load on the chain block. I only lifted enough to support the bike upright - the rear wheel stayed on the ground (and I put the bike in gear to prevent rolling forward). I certainly did not want to put the full weight of the bike on the ladder. This arrangement seemed to work well and the bike felt secure enough to work on.

Picture 1: Temporary bike support frame


I managed to remove the stand assembly without too much difficulty (although I needed an extension bar on the end of my socket set ratchet to get all four allen bolts started). Once removed from the  bike and on my "work bench" aka chest freezer with an old towel on it, it was much easier to complete the disassembly. Interesting, only the left hand centre stand bolt had the bush retaining circlip on it. The left hand bolt was a bit more troublesome to remove, but a little heat seemed to help free it up. (I was far more comfortable taking a blow torch to it with it removed from the bike!).

As shown by the pictures below - both bushes were in a horrid state and definitely need replacing. Incidentally, the left hand bush had the greatest amount of wear. Clear evidence of a lifetime without grease.

Picture 2: Left hand bush, fastener and circlip removed


Picture 3: Right hand bush and fastener removed (circlip missing)


Picture 4: Obvious wear on left hand bush (wear marks over ¾ of bush surface)


Picture 5: Left hand bush - showing amount of wear


The grease holes, alluded to by Inge K, where indeed there and were completely clogged with ancient fossilised grease and road dirt. I cleaned these out and, if I refit the 2V stand (I may have to), I will fit grease nipples (I may need to run a tap down the hole as I don't think it is threaded). I certainly will be adding greasing of the centre stand and side stand pivot bushes to my annual maintenance list.

Picture 6: The greasing point - once cleaned out. 


Initially, I had planned on removing the 16V (4V) centre stand from my donor bike and fitting it - it is a much more robust design and, as Japuentes points out avoids the internal corrosion failure mechanism of the 2V variant. Unfortunately, my donor bike was having a sulk and I haven't been able to get the centre stand off it yet as the bolts are all seized solid (they've been dosed up with penetrating oil and I'll try again tomorrow). However, I expect that I will need to replace the bushes on that assembly too (although it does have grease nipples and therefore may actually have been greased at some point in history).

More to follow, once new bushes received....

My bushes were much worse than that. If I were you then I would not refit the older type stand, but use the newer one as they don't corrode like the old ones.

bikerboy wrote:My bushes were much worse than that. If I were you then I would not refit the older type stand, but use the newer one as they don't corrode like the old ones.

I was surprised how bad the bushes were - it certainly explains why it was getting harder to get the bike up on it's centre stand.

I do still intend to refit the bike with the newer type of centre stand (with new bushes)....as soon as I can get the wretched thing off the donor bike. It is a much better design, has grease nipples already fitted and looks neater too. In the meantime, I'm now totally reliant on the side stand.

When you compare the stands it is much easier to get the bike on the stand using the 16v stand.
I was used to heaving my K100 up and the first time I put the K1100 up on its stand I gave a great heave and almost threw it out the door backwards it was so easy.

You may need a set of spacers for the new centerstand as sometimes the rearwheel doesn't come off the ground.

Just replaced mine last winter. The old one had grease nipples on the center-stand bushes, but not the side stand. Consequently, the center worked very well, while the side stand began to sag.

I could have replaced side stand hinge with a fresh bush combined with grease nipple, but was still uncertain about longevity of the tubes. Tubes have a tendency to weaken by internal rusting--some people recommend a few drops of oil inside to retard rust. I think if I had the bike from new this would be a good solution, but with dubious history it's best to replace.

Finally got the 16V variant centre stand off the donor bike - and hopefully the new bushes/fasteners will be here tomorrow. 

James Sherlock team were their usual helpful selves - when they rang to get my payment details, I was told that I had ordered the wrong bush set and that I needed the (cheaper) 2V version - I let him know that I was fitting the 16V version to the bike (so had actually ordered the bits I wanted) - but it was good that they thought to check. 

For the uninitiated, the 16V bushes have two O rings to help retain grease (and thereby reduce wear) - but means it's even more important to keep them greased or the O seals will fail. The bushes that came of the donor bike were in fairly good condition - but the O Rings were shot and there wasn't a trace of grease. Don't you just love POs (and don't you just despair when said PO used a "reputable" BMW service agent to do all his maintenance....)

Anyway, centre stand given damn good wire brushing and sprayed with hammerite smooth paint, grease nipples cleaned out and now waiting on the paint drying and the post man coming bearing gifts.

K75RT Keith - the "new" stand came off my old LT and I don't recall any problems with the rear wheel grounding on that bike, but I think you are right that the ground clearance with the 16V centre stand is a little less than with the 2V.

AJ Valente - my donor bike side stand does have a grease nipple on it, so I will be fitting that too when I start the reassembly. Grease - apparently, is the word!

Job done.

16V stand cleaned up, re-painted (hammerite smooth - black), new bushes and bolts fitted and grease nipples cleaned out. Reassembled centre stand and side stand (there is a grease hole on the side stand, but I also had a collar with grease nipple fitted that was held in place with the mounting bolt), pumped full of grease and fitted to bike.

Top tip - when re-fitting the entire centre stand & side stand assembly, leave the centre stand springs off until the unit is bolted in place, then fit them - avoids fighting spring tension and gravity when trying to align the 4 allen bolts, I initially tried it with the springs in place but couldn't get the bolts and bolt holes to line up and was turning the garage air blue!

...and then for the moment of truth...yer beauty! Bike now hops up onto the centre stand without much effort at all. 
Lesson learnt - grease those centre stand and side stand bushes.

With the 16V stand fitted to an non 16V K100LT, the rear wheel does still clear the ground (by about 10mm).

Hi Paul, 
both my centre and side stand have play. The centre stand clearance between the nearside arm and the wheel is very close, almost as if the unit is off centre. I checked the bushes, plenty of slop, although previous (dubious) records show an 1100 stand fitted. How do I tell which type is on my bike.?
The nearside bush has no gap between the bush and the housing but on the offside, there is . I need new bushes , but like you not sure which to order. 
Thanks in advance 
Bob

Hi Audibob,

If your centre stand has curved tubular legs, it will be the K100 2V model. If it has straight legs it is the better K100 16V one. I think this is the same model of centre stand used on the K1100 too. With various mods done over the years by PO's, it is often difficult to ascertain what is original fit or otherwise. 

My pics of the two variants I had are at the top of this thread (post 1) or this link which (hopefully takes you there):
https://www.k100-forum.com/t8174-centre-stand#95612

The bushes should be a close fit in their housing, any movement and slop suggests that the bush is badly worn and needs replacing. I get some lateral movement in the side stand, but didn't change that bush as it seemed a reasonably good fit in it's housing and there was no sign of wear on the bolt.

Hi Paul, 
it seems mine is from the 1100. It is far from falling apart, and has been recently done judging from the grease, but my concern is the clearance between the tyre and the nearside stand leg. When she is on the sidestand, there is very little clearance. I am tempted to dig out the dremel and grind a safe clearance .
Bob

I've just had a look at mine....when the bike is on her side stand and with the centre stand raised, there is about 9-10mm clearance between the centre stand foot and the rear tyre on the left hand side of the bike (exhaust side) and 12mm clearance on the righthand side. Slightly different, but the geometry of the feet is different too.


  

  

With new bushes and bolts just installed, there is no lateral play at all and the centre stand sits nicely in the silencer rubber, which further hinders any movement toward the tyre.

Personally, I would address the bush/bolt/mounting arrangement before taking an angle grinder to the stand! 

Hope this helps

Post Post edit: I meant to put on tyre size (thanks Robmack for the comment) - I have 130 / 90 / 17 on my rear wheel

Hi Paul,
I had only 3mm on the exhaust side, but you could drive a bus through on the nearside.  I removed  a slither to give me a better clearance, and when I get time I will strip the stand down and replace as required. I am sure I read somewhere that there is a spacer plate for the k1100 stand when converting . Just another job on my never ending list, guess I was spoiled on my last LT, with full BM service history, all I ever did was fill her up with petrol. At least it gives me a chance to learn her "ways".
Thanks again for your help
Bob

audibob wrote:Hi Paul, 
it seems mine is from the 1100. It is far from falling apart, and has been recently done judging from the grease, but my concern is the clearance between the tyre and the nearside stand leg. When she is on the sidestand, there is very little clearance. I am tempted to dig out the dremel and grind a safe clearance .
Bob

What size rear tire do you have fitted?  A wide, low profile tire will be closer to the centre stand legs.

Hi Robmack,
tyre is 130 /90/17 bt 45 battleaxe 
The stand does look offset in its fixing, which I think is still k100 whilst the stand is k1100. 
Bodgit and scarper PO comes to mind......
I know the clearance between tyre and stand increases when I sit on the bike, but a bit more clearance gives me peace of mind.
I guess these bikes are a labour of love..