Valve shim tools

Dai · 1 Valve shim tools Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:42 pm

Dai

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-K100-K75-VALVE-SHIM-TOOL-BMW-1000-750-USED-/111946738045?hash=item1a108ba97d:g:Ex8AAOSwZtJW9DME

Snod Blatter · 2 Re: Valve shim tools Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:48 am

Snod Blatter

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Watched, will be doing this soon! Fed up with the poor economy Laughing

Snod Blatter · 3 Re: Valve shim tools Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:33 pm

Snod Blatter

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£40 with postage!! Time to sacrifice a screwdriver to the vice gods..

Dai · 4 Re: Valve shim tools Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:06 pm

Dai

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Just under buying a set from Ken Polenpol (???), so you did well there. The problem I found with Ken's tools is that the steel he uses is too soft; get the positioning wrong and it's too easy to slip and damage the edges. Blacksmith Adam is replicating them for me in hardened steel. Well, he will once he's finished building his new workshop!!!

Snod Blatter · 5 Re: Valve shim tools Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:16 pm

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I didn't buy it, I gave up when it went past £15 Laughing

I see some people have managed to make tools to do this out of cheap shock adjusting C spanners, I have a couple. Will a magnet pluck the shims out? Why does it need to be a square with a tang on it?

Holister · 6 Re: Valve shim tools Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:45 pm

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The curved hook tool acts like a cam to depress the shim and bucket. The square tool is placed between the camshaft and the edge of the bucket to keep it in the depressed position while the shim is removed and replaced.

Cheers

Rick G · 7 Re: Valve shim tools Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:36 pm

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Be careful making them yourself as using soft steel will cause small slivers of steel to come away from the tool as it moves against the cam and then you have them in the system on the engine side of the oil supply. I don't think I need to say any more.

duck · 8 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:33 am

duck

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If you know what you're doing it is possible to swap valve shims using the tip of a screwdriver to depress the cam bucket enough to swap cam shims.

Dai · 9 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:35 am

Dai

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That's how I used to do Japanese bucket'n'shim models and truth to tell, I hated it. Then one day while doing a K1100 (Kawasaki! Very Happy

) someone gave me the correct Kwak tool and I never looked back. That particular tool is still in my garage but it hasn't been used in twenty-five or so years.

Rick G · 10 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:33 am

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If ever I pull the cams out I clean up the area of the cam where the tool slides and polish it, it's amazing what a difference it makes.

92KK 84WW Olaf · 11 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:05 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Soft steel indeed.........

So the relevance of these photos is a memory of what transpired to be quite an infamous incident on the Cork Muskerry narrow gauge rail line many years back when a council stream roller and the train to Blarney were in collision, despite travelling in the same direction. Local rumour persists to this day that there was an unofficial race taking place.

Gaz80 travelled out this route [train tracks long since gone] with the Skroll on his way to Blarney and the Blarney Stone [not to be Konfused with Comberjohn's Weather Stone] and ended up at the old Blarney train station.

station.

Snod Blatter · 12 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:44 pm

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Okay, so home made is probably bad. And cheap aftermarket tools are probably bad. So while I'm here learning about soft steel and trains, I may as well ask what is surely a stupid question and learn some more: Is it really too difficult to remove the cams instead? Turn the motor to somewhere where it's hopefully not pressing on too many valves, bit of Tipp Ex on the cam gears and chain, release tensioner, cams out.. Cams in lined up with Tipp Ex, tensioner back on, smug sense of self satisfaction at saving £50. No?

Dai, how much for the special blacksmith version?? Very Happy

Point-Seven-five · 13 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:09 pm

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Is a hardened steel tool really desirable for this job? I would think that softer steel is less likely to make scratches or other marks on the contact points of the buckets. If I am going to ding something I would rather it be the tool that I can clean up when the job is done. Has anyone actually knocked chunks off of their shim tools?

Holister · 14 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:21 pm

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Snod Blatter wrote:Okay, so home made is probably bad. And cheap aftermarket tools are probably bad. So while I'm here learning about soft steel and trains, I may as well ask what is surely a stupid question and learn some more: Is it really too difficult to remove the cams instead? Turn the motor to somewhere where it's hopefully not pressing on too many valves, bit of Tipp Ex on the cam gears and chain, release tensioner, cams out.. Cams in lined up with Tipp Ex, tensioner back on, smug sense of self satisfaction at saving £50. No?

Dai, how much for the special blacksmith version??

Not a stupid question BUT if you've ever replaced the timing chain you'd know its not as straightforward as that to get to the chain tensioner.
I bought my shim tools from Ken Lively in the US for about AU$48 including postage. I found the finish to be a little rough and I need to pack the spacer as its just a tad short to get the shim out. Motorworks have them for £43 (AU$68 no VAT). They have a proper handle and the finish looks well made. A better option by far imo.

Cheers

Rick G · 15 Re: Valve shim tools Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:16 am

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Point-Seven-five wrote:Is a hardened steel tool really desirable for this job? I would think that softer steel is less likely to make scratches or other marks on the contact points of the buckets. If I am going to ding something I would rather it be the tool that I can clean up when the job is done. Has anyone actually knocked chunks off of their shim tools?

Yes I have seen it, fine slivers of steel. That's why I gave the advice.

Dai · 16 Re: Valve shim tools Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:16 am

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Snod Blatter wrote:Dai, how much for the special blacksmith version??

Two hours on site and an hour on the phone sorting out an ignition problem... Shocked

Snod Blatter · 17 Re: Valve shim tools Sun May 01, 2016 3:13 pm

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Kaptain Holister wrote:Motorworks have them for £43 (AU$68 no VAT). They have a proper handle and the finish looks well made. A better option by far imo.

And so, after measuring the clearances and finding three shims that needed changing, I went and bought the tools from Motorworks. I was immediately suspicious as it is painted, and surely the rough casting of the cam and the pressure of the bucket would scrape the paint off in no time? But better to give them the benefit of the doubt, Motorworks know what they're doing.. Right?

No. No they do not.

The first two shims were easy enough to extract, measure, and put back in. All the paint (and red oxide primer) scraped off the inside and outside of the tool, but that was expected. What was not expected was that the steel would be so incredibly soft that it got bitten hard by the buckets and the roughness of the cam, eventually getting chewed so much that it would not release itself from the cam! I had to press the bucket down with a screwdriver to get it out, and bent the special tool in the process. Check it:

Valve shim tools 3AyZ32M

I also had to keep filing it relatively smooth, as the buckets sliced the outside like butter and the cam roughened up the inside until the tool wouldn't slide around it any more. The small, well used hand file I was using also sliced through the tool without any bother, this steel is ridiculously soft.

Valve shim tools XMyU5I9

I also bent it back into a straight enough shape without too much effort, just clamped the cam end in a vice and pulled on the handle. Yuck! It just about managed to remove three shims, replace the three shims, then remove them again and replace with new ones. But I don't think it could do another engine, this tool has had it. And of course there will still be little bits of it left behind in the engine, no way to clean it out properly without removing the cams..

Overall, decidedly unimpressed!

Dai · 18 Re: Valve shim tools Sun May 01, 2016 5:54 pm

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Try ringing Motorworks as I'd say that was not fit for purpose.

Holister · 19 Re: Valve shim tools Sun May 01, 2016 7:25 pm

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I would agree with that!! Sounds like they've not been made by a toolmaker... and painted with red oxide...wtf.

Like I said above, I bought mine from Ken Lively in the US and they were reasonably well made. He uses hardened steel and they weren't hand forged like the Motorworks set look to be.

Try giving your camshaft area a good spray with something like carby cleaner or WD40 and then wash that out with brake cleaner. Spray from the top to wash debris down not in. Make sure you give thecams a splodge of engine oil before the covers go back on.

Rick made comments above about not using mild steel tools for this job.

Cheers

Snod Blatter · 20 Re: Valve shim tools Sun May 01, 2016 7:36 pm

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I cleaned off as much paint and swarf as I could, and then coated the new shims and their corresponding lobes with oil. I then put it back together and have run it, so it's a bit late to try and clean it all any more! For what it's worth, the engine seems perfectly happy but I haven't yet taken it for a proper spin. A bit noisier than before, but of course that is to be expected..

Has no one else bought these tools from Motorworks? I'd be interested in any other people's experiences with them. I would also guess that this tool started life as a big screwdriver, which has been formed into a new shape without being properly treated and this may explain why it seems so soft.. But it's just a guess.

The tool is beyond soft, it has to be seen to be believed. Or rather hand filed to be believed. For anyone who has the proper BMW tool, is it painted?

Dai · 21 Re: Valve shim tools Mon May 02, 2016 7:54 am

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Kaptain Holister wrote:Like I said above, I bought mine from Ken Lively in the US and they were reasonably well made. He uses hardened steel and they weren't hand forged like the Motorworks set look to be.

The one I got wasn't. It was beautifully cut but it's mild steel and didn't survive slipping off the side of a bucket. It's re-usable but I doubt I'd be able to do more than five or six engines before introducing it to the nearest trashcan. I persuaded Blacksmith Adam to forge one for me from hardened steel - it arrived yesterday and no bucket is going to get the better of that tool.

prince · 22 Re: Valve shim tools Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:58 pm

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Any thoughts on using a tool "made" for another brand like this: https://www.bikebandit.com/manuals-tools/motorcycle-tools/motorcycle-hand-tools/motion-pro-valve-shim-tool-for-honda-motorcycles/p/24872

Afterall, the idea is to push the bucket down. It seems to me any tool that gets around the camshaft should be able to do that.

Two Wheels Better · 23 Re: Valve shim tools Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:17 pm

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I bought this one from the 'Bins about eight, nine years ago...they musta changed suppliers.

And here's Wunderlich's version.
Wunderlich

And a link to the homemade jobbie.
K Valve Shim Tool

MartinW · 24 Re: Valve shim tools Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:50 am

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TWB the first one pictured is actually an oil seal removal tool. They are pretty cheap to buy on Ebay $10.00 Au to $20.00 Au. How did it go removing the shims? I actually made mine following the diagram that you posted. Works fine with no sign of metal coming off, however I do grease it.
Regards Martin.

Laitch · 25 Re: Valve shim tools Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:31 am

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pprince wrote:Afterall, the idea is to push the bucket down. It seems to me any tool that gets around the camshaft should be able to do that.

In post #17 Frankenduck seems to indicate he has used a screwdriver with success so you might be correct. After you've done it once though, clarity will reign.

I used Lively's tools along with a telescoping magnet or pick to remove and replace the shims. I had a good day and I'll use them again. Somebody else bought those tools and reported a miserable time using them—jamming them, damaging them then cursing them right down to their very atoms while flinging them to the four winds, so there you go.

nobbylon · 26 Re: Valve shim tools Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:53 am

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A guy here in the Netherlands was selling sets that he’d made from sheet steel. I think I paid €25, used them on 3 bikes and they work perfectly. It wouldn’t be that difficult to make them if you gave the dimensions to a workshop. Those motorworks tools look hopeless.

Rick G · 27 Re: Valve shim tools Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:14 am

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If ever you get the opportunity and the cams are out stick them in a lathe and smooth off the area next to the cam ti makes things heaps easier.
I did it to my Z1300 Kawasaki almost as soon as I got it and all the race engines I also had before they departed this world with a bang.

prince · 28 Re: Valve shim tools Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:48 am

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Two Wheels Better wrote:I bought this one from the 'Bins about eight, nine years ago...they musta changed suppliers.

And here's Wunderlich's version.
Wunderlich

And a link to the homemade jobbie.
K Valve Shim Tool

That tool is a seal puller. Did it work?

Dai · 29 Re: Valve shim tools Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:22 am

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They're great fun. Hook in, lever back and duck rapidly because you ain't got a clue where the seal's gonna end up! I had one land a good fifteen feet away one day. Also useful when you can't disassemble the fork leg but you need to change the seal; just carefully dig it in sideways and lever out.

The Wunderlich tool looks like the one that Snodblatter buggered up.

Two Wheels Better · 30 Re: Valve shim tools Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:57 am

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Of course, never post a stock picture of a tool in your toolbox after opening a second bottle of wine after a hard day.

Doh! Anyone else know what a next day regret is!? drunken

The valve tool set is waiting for me in my toolbox in OZ. We will be reunited this weekend.

Two Wheels Better · 31 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:05 am

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Back home, sorting the red RS and the shed. Opened up my tool boxes and discovered this...This pile was once a Snap On brand soft hammer, but after several years in Queensland humidity and heat is has been reduced to 'ashes'.

MartinW · 32 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:20 am

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TWB does Snap On have a lifetime warranty? I'd take it back just to see their reaction.
Regards Martin.

nobbylon · 33 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:33 am

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Supposed to have but on more than one occassion I’ve been refused. A 3/8 ratchet and an impact tool.
I cherry pick these days but use Bahco for most things. There are equally good tools out there given the attitude I’ve received from Snap-off in the past.
Good warranties and great tools from these also,
Norbar, torque wrenches
NWS and Knipex, pliers etc
Wera, screwdrivers
Sorry to hijack but Snapitoff get up my nose.

Dai · 34 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:00 am

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I buy those manufacturers too - buy once and never again. I'd add two more names to the list: Teng and Hilka. The one time I broke a Teng 8mm allen drive it was replaced with no comment at all, despite being outside the 'warranty period'. As for Hilka... I bought a set of their spanners thirty-five years ago and they're still in regular use.

Mind you, I do have a set of BluePoint ratchet spanners (non-US made SnapOn) hanging on the wall but they only cost me £17.20 spanky new from ebay.

Point-Seven-five · 35 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:21 am

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In the U.S. Craftsman was a good brand. Not sure now that Sears is in financial trouble.

Now I buy my tools at Harbor Freight. Cheap, but decent quality. When I worked on boats we lost a lot of tools in the water. Harbor Freight made the splash a lot less painful. I have a set of their Allen wrenches that I have used s couple times a week for over four years now. They still fit tight except for the ball end on one of them, I think it's the 5mm that gets used more than the rest of them combined.

My four year old HF impact driver works great and has made loosening frozen bolts and nuts a piece of cake. Got it on sale. Best $39 I ever spent on tools.

Two Wheels Better · 36 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:31 pm

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I should mention that I purchased this Snap On hammer in 1984 when working in a BMW, VW, Subaru & FIAT dealership. It's old enough to have a few wrinkles.

MartinW · 37 Re: Valve shim tools Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:05 pm

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Sidchrome in OZ used to have a lifetime warranty and replaced with no problems. I believe they now have a lot of conditions. And a mate used to swear by Stahlwille.
Regards Martin.

Two Wheels Better · 38 Re: Valve shim tools Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:05 am

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In the interest of correcting my previous faux pas, this is what I bought from Motobins nine years ago.

MartinW · 39 Re: Valve shim tools Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:15 am

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TWB you have still left one question unanswered. Can you use the seal puller to compress the valve buckets? I am nearly to the point of buying one just to give it a try. Valve shim tools 610153

Regards Martin.

Two Wheels Better · 40 Re: Valve shim tools Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:16 am

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Not enuf to extract the shim...

MartinW · 41 Re: Valve shim tools Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:42 am

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Ratz it would mean one tool for multiple applications. Valve shim tools 177381

Regards Martin.

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