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K100-forum.com » Technical, repair and troubleshooting » Special tools and jigs » Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge

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1Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:06 pm

mjbtdi

mjbtdi
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Does anyone have a recommendation as to where i can buy a TDC dial gauge that is long enough for the K100.

I replaced the missing Hal sensor on a project bike and now need to set the timing.

    

2Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:36 pm

Rick G

Rick G
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Set it there and it will be within 1°  I would recommend to advance it 4° (3mm on the outer edge of the plate) from there and the bottom end torque increase is astounding.
Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Hall_s10


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

3Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:47 am

Holister

Holister
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mjbtdi wrote:Does anyone have a recommendation as to where i can buy a TDC dial gauge that is long enough for the K100.

I replaced the missing Hal sensor on a project bike and now need to set the timing.
Agree. No need. I've had all the timing gear off as well as the valve timing gear including the camshaft drive sprockets. It all goes back together by sight. However, the first time I did that I did check that I had absolute tdc on zyl.#1 and just used a length of brazing rod and did it by feel. You can be finicky if you want but it ain't gonna make much difference. A crankshaft position sensor (HES) is a lot more forgiving than a set of points following a cam.

You may be interested in using this Road Timing method.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808		 Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

4Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:52 pm

Rockman

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RicK G wrote:Set it there and it will be within 1°  I would recommend to advance it 4° (3mm on the outer edge of the plate) from there and the bottom end torque increase is astounding.
Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Hall_s10

So you turn the plate 3mm anticlockwise to get a 4 deg advance? is that right or have I got things arse about?

    

5Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:43 pm

Rick G

Rick G
admin
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Clockwise is correct


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

6Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty thanks for the replies Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:32 am

mjbtdi

mjbtdi
active member
active member
thats great feedback, trouble is i was hoping it was the timing that was giving me the rough running.

I installed to that position and bike fired back to life, but runs rough and with the odd backfire..

I got the bike as a non runner with parts missing so this could end up being painful.

If HAL position is not that critical, any recommendations for next steps? - i am thinking check for air leaks next? i replaced the plugs which took it from barely running to rough running.

I do have a complete parts bike that i can use as a 1:1 scale model Smile


Thinking about it, i did get the hal sensor of the parts bike, could it be bad and still allow bike to run?


any ideas appreciated.

    

7Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:54 am

Rick G

Rick G
admin
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Usually Hall sensors work or dont work. The rough running is far more likely to be plugs, leads, coils or injectors
An early K100 may still have the grey almost black coils and they are known for giving trouble. The brown coils with orange towers are the best.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

8Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:54 am

Gauntlett

Gauntlett
Silver member
Silver member
Check the throttle butterflies haven't been tampered with, had to reset mine same symptoms, runs like a sewing machine now



Last edited by Gauntlett on Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

    

9Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty update Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:50 am

mjbtdi

mjbtdi
active member
active member
thanks for the help!

So i checked the BBS's (Big Brass Screws), first one 5 turns out! set them all to 1.5 turns - my new vac gauges arrive friday and i will set properly then, anyway immediate improvement, still not great though.

I then sprayed carb cleaner around intake - engine raced, turns out vacuum caps all cracked, replaced those and idle got better still, sprayed again and engine increased speed but not crazy, thinking will replace the 4 rubber intake grommets next.

The bike is now starting at first press of the button which is great.

I also have coils, injectors and leads on the way so should get it running like a top soon! thanks all for your help -  i would have been spending hours monkeying with a dial gauge and the HAL thinking i was missing a trick with the timing if it wasn't for your help!

    

10Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:59 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I recommend getting the injectors reconditioned. Even if it does not solve your rough running problems it is a good maintenance item on 30 year old injectors.

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/fis/fis.htm

Then sync the throttle bodies.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

11Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:52 am

brickrider2

brickrider2
Life time member
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When you get to replacing the deteriorated rubber bits on the throttle bodies, pay close attention to their orientation.  A casual glance could leave one with the mistaken idea they are the same size on each end.  NOT SO!  Don't ask how I came by this information.  Embarassed

    

12Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:18 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
duck wrote:I recommend getting the injectors reconditioned. Even if it does not solve your rough running problems it is a good maintenance item on 30 year old injectors.
Agree. IMO you're better off with the original injectors rather that the so called 'upgrade' 4 hole injectors available on ebay. Easy to clean them yourself, just search Youtube. You can buy injector kits off ebay very cheap.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808		 Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

13Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Update Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:16 pm

mjbtdi

mjbtdi
active member
active member
thanks, new injectors work like a charm. I will keep and refurb originals, good excuse to buy wife that ultrasonic cleaner from harbor freight (for your jewelry dear hrrm).

Also got vac gauge last night, motion pro one from amazon....wish i had read reviews before ordering, its rubbish totally useless.

I found a mercury one, fingers crossed its not rubbish!

    

14Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:22 pm

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I've been very happy with a Morgan Carbtune.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

15Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:24 am

charlie99

charlie99
VIP
VIP
if the throttle body rubbers aren't split ...seems fairly common on the uppers ...but not the lowers ...until you pull them apart

quite often the seal between the head and the rubbers is the issue 

a dab of silicon around the sealing surfaces often solves the issue ,  I guess try and find something resistant to fuel ...as that is what spits back up the induction path and rubbers to the throttle bodies ..

good luck


__________________________________________________
cheezy grin whilst riding, kinda bloke ....oh the joy !!!! ...... ( brick aviator )

'86 K100 RT..#0090401 ..."Gerty" ( Gertrude Von Clickandshift ) --------O%O
'86 k100 rs.. #######..  "Fred " (f(rame) red ) ( Fredrick leichtundschnell ) - -
bits and pieces from many kind friends across the k100 world ...with many thanks ..
1987 k100rs ########   "Red"  - (red sports rs TWB style )
1989 K100rt #009637   "Black Betty"  (naked rt ala Nigel , now sporting an rs main fairing )
    

16Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:40 am

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
I've come across lots of bikes where the lower boots between the TBs and the head are cracked and leaking. This is understandable as they sit right on top of the head and the rubber is subjected to rather extreme heat.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

17Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:38 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
RicK G wrote:Set it there and it will be within 1°  I would recommend to advance it 4° (3mm on the outer edge of the plate) from there and the bottom end torque increase is astounding.
Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Hall_s10

Would the K75 would also benefit from advancing 4 degree Rick?


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

18Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:59 pm

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
Yes Even more so.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

19Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:23 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
RicK G wrote: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge 723598 Yes Even more so.


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

20Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:03 am

Crazy Frog

Crazy Frog
admin
admin
Have you check the crankcase vent hose (#10) for cracks or split?
Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Vent_h10


__________________________________________________
Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Frog15Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Logo2101986 k75, 1985 K100rt, 1985 K100rt/EML GT2 sidecar, 1999 K1200lt/Hannigan Astro Sport sidecar.
    

21Back to top Go down   Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Empty Re: Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:31 pm

Rockman

avatar
Life time member
Life time member
TIV wrote:
RicK G wrote:Set it there and it will be within 1°  I would recommend to advance it 4° (3mm on the outer edge of the plate) from there and the bottom end torque increase is astounding.
Timing Tools - TDC Depth Gauge Hall_s10

Would the K75 would also benefit from advancing 4 degree Rick?
Did this with my K100. Yes, makes a big difference and takes about 5 minutes to do.

    

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