I have a bad contact in my ignition switch.
I know this for sometimes when I go to start the bike I get 1 revolution of the engine not unlike a flat battery. But a gentle joogle of the ignition key results in a brightening of the idiot lights & prompt start-up. The bike then runs as well as it ever did.
Given that the switch contacts are now 25yrs old I reckon they would benefit from a bit of a clean.
So is the switch easy to strip ?
Are there any hideous bendy/snappy fastenings likely to catch me out ?
I once had a Suzuki where the switch part unbolted completely from the lock part which was handy.
And what's the best stuff to clean it with assuming I can get it to bits ?

Bike is a 1985 K100RT btw.

ShedBob

ShedBob,

Go to the home page and get into the download section. You will find the first post which is the "download page complete listing". follow the link and get to the electrical section. find the link "Fixing the ignition switch".
I purposely don't put a link to the download page as its access is a privilege for registered members.
You will have all the informations and pictures needed to fix your switch at no cost.

Enjoy,

Bert

A gentle Joogle of the ignition key??

I could actually measure the difference in resistance with mine but a clean on its own was not enough. It required a very light filing of the contacts to improve the situation.
Worth checking before you put it back together.

Regards,

Phil

WD 40

Caig Laboratories - DeoxIT D series (contact cleaner and rejuvinator), then use DeoxIT Gold (contact enhancer, conditioner and protector).



http://store.caig.com/

green cat wrote:WD 40

Tried that

ShedBob

Crazy Frog wrote:ShedBob,

Go to the home page and get into the download section. You will find the first post which is the "download page complete listing". follow the link and get to the electrical section. find the link "Fixing the ignition switch".
I purposely don't put a link to the download page as its access is a privilege for registered members.
You will have all the informations and pictures needed to fix your switch at no cost.

Enjoy,

Bert

Fab !

That's saturday spoken for.

Joogling will be history !

ShedBob

ShedBob wrote:

green cat wrote:WD 40

Tried that

ShedBob

I can imagine, that it doesn't work

WD40 is mearly an oily substance. But it's good to push away residual water on your contacts. ANyway, if they're already oxidized, it might be better to use the stuff that blakey mentioned or similar sprays like Contact 60...

I've removed more than my fair share of crud in the past 2 years of stripping 100/1100's.

Sometimes the corrosion is so bad that it pays to scrape the worst off [ carefully ], then I spray everything with WD40 and on assembly use silicone grease. Vaseline [ KY Jelly ] is a reasonable alternative.

My pal uses a proprietory switch cleaner that you used to be able to buy from Radio Shack.

Vaseline is not KY Jelly! Vaseline is petroleum jelly basically a very thick mineral oil, so thick it is grease like and is not water soluble. KY Jelly is a water based lubricant which washes easily off and would likely accelerate corrosion.
Regards,
K-BIKE

OOOPs sorry - never seen or used KY Jelly, just heard that it's the mainstay of American Bedside tables [ tongue in cheek fellas] and as such thought it was similar.

I'll stick with Vaseline and my ex Ford Motor Co. grease.

I use silicone based dielectric grease and a silicone oil spray. Electronic components stores have them. The silicone based products for this kind of work are very resistant to water. Good lubricants as well.

Silicone grease and silicone lubricants are not actually particularly good lubricants when measured against conventional lubricants. I recall one of the early questions I asked one of the lubricant technologists at Castrol was why didn't they use silicone oil as an engine or gearbox oil base stock and was told in no uncertain terms "because they are rubbish as lubricants". A bit extreme because they are OK for sliding bits of rubber onto things but even then not as good as proper rubber grease which is based on vegetable oil. The other problem with silicone grease on electrical contacts is they can break down when exposed to sparking and cause conduction failures failures, I had a technical publication on that but can't lay my hands on it at the moment.
Regards,
K-BIKE

Yeah...and DeoxIT is bloody expensive so I must be good!

blakey wrote:Yeah...and DeoxIT is bloody expensive so I must be good!

That was what struck me too.
Think I'll start with a wee bit of emery & finish with some white spray grease to waterproof it.

ShedBob

The use of things like white grease and silicone "dielectric" grease on electrical contacts can be detrimental in the long term. Organic materials like white grease are made by oils lithium soaps and materials like bentonite clay. When exposed to arcing the oil breaks down to carbon and results in what is called coking of the contacts. Kluber the lubricant company says the following regarding switch contact lubrication "For lubricant selection, it is also of major importance to consider what kind of metal surfaces are moved against one another with what contact force. The adhesion of the lubricant depends on its chemical composition and consistency, but also on the contact material, the surface roughness and the orientation of the roughness. As lubricants applied to live electrical contacts must withstand very high temperatures over a very long period of time, the base oils should show a very low tendency to evaporate and a high resistance to oxidation. If temperatures become excessively high for a short time, the lubricant should evaporate or burn away without residues such that no foreign matter (coking) remains, which would interfere with the function of the contact later. When faced with requirements of this kind, perfluorinated polyethers (PFPE) perform much better than hydrocarbon-based lubricants."

Electrolube has the following comment about silicone compounds "Silicone Contamination Silicone contamination poses particular problems which can also be overcome by contact lubricants. Silicones are found in lubricants, sealants, polishes and mould release agents. As silicones can "creep" great distances, these products should not be used in switch assembly areas. When silicones are present between moving or vibrating contacts, they react under arcing conditions to form silicon carbide. These crystals abrade the contact surface and cause electrical breakdown. Silicone contamination is very difficult to remove, particularly after the formation of silicon carbide. It cannot be removed by solvents. There are certain contact lubricants that can prevent the damage caused by silicones and can even restore damaged contacts. One such treatment from Electrolube reacts with the silicon carbide to form volatile silicon tetrafluoride gas, thus slowly breaking down the hard particles.

If a contact lubricant is used on the switch prior to the introduction of silicones these problems are avoided." so as they say "you pays your money and takes your choices" with regard to what one put on our switchgear. The concern I have is the main ignition switch is pretty fundamental to the bikes continued running and I would be nervous of anything which could degrade the performance of the switch in case it decided to stop working just as I was overtaking a big truck. Silicone spray is great for water resistant spark plug caps to stop the rubber sticking to the porcelain of the spark plug and to help deter water from entering but that's about all I would use it for on the bike. The other thing about silicone greases is they migrate over surfaces and a very challenging to remove if you want to repaint. The bottom line is we all use what we are comfortable with and can afford/get hold of, it is no good knowing that a particular substance is the "ne plus ultra" lubricant or whatever if it is not available within a thousand miles of where one lives, one of our fellow listers in Aus is faced with that on a regular basis as he is physically remote from lots of special bits and pieces we rave on about but that is balanced I am sure by the magnificence of the location.
Regards,
K-BIKE

I can see the silicon carbide formation, but to do that we need to expose the compound to very high temperatures (furnace red hot). This can happen if he have arching in the system, but we are talking about 12V and the biggest problem we face in ingress of water and corrosion.

BTW silicon carbide is a very hard compound often used as abrasive in sandpaper etc applications. It would be made in the combustion chamber (high temp)... and yes it would screw up the motor is a very short time.

However, silicone grease/oil is almost inert and moisture has no effect on it. Yes it can be a pain to remove if you want to paint.

It is a bit of an overkill when I use dielectric grease for contacts when garden variety Vaseline will do, but I have inherited a big tube and it would be a shame to waste it

A lot of water repellent sprays are not lubricants and should be used to displace water and for nothing else. I think that you are correct. Good tube of Vaseline is just fine and works well.

The operation of switch contacts when breaking inductive DC loads is quite interesting and complex things happen over a very short period. Yes the voltage is only 12 to 14 volts which is relatively low and the current passing through the ignition switch seems moderate, only a matter of amps. When I left Castrol I worked at a college and then went to work at Imperial College in London doing research over a period of nearly seven years, some of which was into the operation of low voltage switching circuits.

I recall an article I have somewhere in my files from Bell Labs which describes the operation of standard relay coils which are switched and when the switch contacts start to separate cutting off the current to the coil what happens bizarrely is there are a series of ringing voltage and current peaks initially quite low at around 1.5 amps and the arc then extinguishes but as the inductance and capacitance of the wiring is there the circuit rings and voltage starts to rise as the contacts draw further apart and another arc is established but at a higher voltage and a peak current of 10 amps or more is present eventually voltage spikes of 1000 volts can appear with arcing, until the contacts are too far apart and they don't arc any more. A process which seems impossible but it is true. That is why we see the blue flash when the switch contacts separate the arc is emitting in the blue-white and up into the ultra violet region and is made up of a number of flashes of increasing intensity happening too fast for the eye to distinguish them. Those arcs are repeated every time we operate the switch and they are what breaks down the silicone grease, not much can withstand an arc discharge. That is why the Kluber company and others recommend the perfluorinated polyethers (PFPE) as greases on switch contacts because their breakdown products are minimal and not harmful to the switch conductivity.

As I say each to his own, I keep silicone products away from all electrical connections apart from the spark plug porcelain to rubber boot areas and use DeoxIT to promote conductivity on electrical connections as they say YMMV if it works for you keep doing it.
Regards,
K-BIKE

Again..Go here for an article on ignition switch cleaning and download it.

http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/32417964/fca60d54/sharing.html?rnd=88

Ajays.
collected info;

Jim at Eastern Beaver apart from selling excellent relay kits and other goodies has a useful set of info on K bikes.
Regards,
K-BIKE

Well ripped it to bits this afternoon.
Predictably the worst part was getting the tank off with the usual pain of removing fairing components, fuel pipes etc.
The grub screw securing the lock to the switch was a tadge reluctant so I just sprung the lower body & left the top half in place.
Inside the switch was generally tarnished but not too hideous. Cleaned the contacts with fine emery & some contact cleaner, little bit of grease & popped it back together.
Repeated cycling of the switch showed consistent success with none of the dim glow warning lights & non-starting scenario so I'm happy.
Thanks to all.
Don't suppose you've any miracle fixes for the back brake on a Jota ??

ShedBob

Hi Shebob,
What's wrong with the Jota brake then exactly, what are the symptoms and what did it used to do that it isn't doing now?
Regards,
K-BIKE