Danish biker wrote:

Dai wrote:Quite some while ago, after dumping diesel dinosaur pee in LFB (because that was all that was available at the time and I needed oil desperately), I asked an army-trained vehicle mechanic (who is also a biker/triker) if it would do any damage. His response - which bears out everything said above - was 'No. Diesel engine oil is designed for tougher environments than petrol engine oil and, if anything, will clean the sh!t out of your engine'.

Pushing 33 years as a infantry officer I can only say you are right. I got the same advice from some of all the army mechanics I've served with both in land and in missions throughout the world. How ever I'll try the cleaning liquid for 30 minutes, in a hot engine first. And then the Castrol I bought. If it doesn't help I'll probably use diesel fuel 

Any last remarks before I try the trick tomorrow?

NOT Diesel fuel but lubricating oil designed for use in diesel engines.

RicK G wrote:NOT Diesel fuel but lubricating oil designed for use in diesel engines.

Just refer back to CF's post #2 Rick.....the first mention of Fuel in the Thread was his reference to his brother using it to loosen the sprag. It was Diesel fuel used and for only 10 mins idling. Anyway I tried that with my K75 and it did flush a lot of crap out but the sprag stayed stuck!!

RicK G wrote:NOT Diesel fuel but lubricating oil designed for use in diesel engines.

He, he sorry that was a joke. I think some one earlier wrote he flushed his BMW in diesel fuel. Quit many liters. Of course not running the engine (or maybe he did for a minute). But don't worry I'm not there yet. If my "tomorrow job" doesn't work next step will be spending lots of $$$$$ at the BMW dealer.

I would be very careful about taking it to a dealer but would prefer to have a private experienced BMW repairer look at it. Most dealers have not seen the inside of a Brick since the warranty expired and are experienced on the later models that they get into the workshops and many of the technicians have never worked on them.
I have heard of one dealer that sends any older bikes to the mechanic who do know about them then makes out that they have fixed it.

The benefits to running diesel oil is not for the detergents, but for the zinc. Zinc is the stuff which binds and 'fills' the metal surfaces, increasing its slipperiness and its durability. People wrongly think that oil detergents are the bee's knees, which they aren't. Detergents remove zinc. It's benefits are dubious; it's introduction was at the behest of environmental considerations, which those benefits have never been defined clearly. 

You want to flush your engine with diesel *fuel* then you're on your own. I wouldn't do it, personally. But if you want to run your bike - continually - with diesel *oil* then, yes, it'll love it. 

Just because it reads that it's for diesel engines doesn't mean that it has diesel fuel in it. It doesn't. Funny how people draw that conclusion. It's simply rated for the extreme conditions that prevail in the diesel combustion process.

Mmmmm. I'm on the fence when it comes to diesel oil in an old K. Synthetic is slightly detergent but I get the impression that diesel oil is very sudsy. Too much cleaning is not good for older engines and running continually in a high detergent oil I think would be detrimental. This will be compounded if you change your oil too frequently. Detergents last around 2000km before they're burnt off from what I've read which leaves about 3 or 4k km in 'normal' oil. Change your oil at intervals around 2k or sooner and you will be continually running in a detergent oil = higher wear. Just what I've read.

Is there some way that detergent in engine oil is quantified? How much is in diesel oil compared to normal engine oil or synthetic?

Zinc levels have decreased over recent years due to their effect on catalytic converters but I think its an important additive. Moly derivitives are being use these days also.

Back to the sprag clutch. I've read somewhere on this forum that its possible to free it up by spraying it with something like carby cleaner thru the starter motor recess in the GB. Anyone tried that? I've never had any problems with my sprag, probably because I use synthetic and my PO ran good quality semi-synth. Plus the old girl get a good run nearly everyday and lots of long trips.

Driven engine oil: zinc

Here's a good read from the company that supplies our engine lubes,  Capt

Holister I've read exactly the same (cleaning through the hole after removing the starter).

Funny how many different opinions there are (diesel oil or not - cleaning through the hole or not).

Someone wrote somewhere that using cleaning (spray, WD40 or what ever) could ruin your clutch (the main clutch) but someone else wrote the liquid you spay in, can't get to the clutch or maybe it would run out.

Oh boy opinions are like Adam Henry's (we all got one).

Today my plan is:

1. Run engine hot (if the starter will work   ).
2. Put in the cleaning liquid I bought.
3. Run the engine 30 minutes (not ride).
4. Change oil and filter.
5. Cross my fingers.

Have a great weekend (here it is raining like H...   ).

In 2nd gear BACKWARD bucking, helps normally.

And if back and forth jostling doesn't help: 
Drain engine oil, take the starter off, fill the hole on the starter motor housing with diesel up to the top, install the starter again and then put the K in 5th gear, push a few hundred meters! Then drain the diesel, drain oil filter and refill with engine oil …

You'll see how much dirt comes out

This helped me

Cheers

OK Chocolate just to be 100 % sure (when English is not your native language, especially technical words can be a challenge.

1. All oil out.
2. Take off the starter.
3. Get as much diesel FUEL into the hole so it gets to the Sprague Clutch.
4. Starter back in.
5. Push the bike forward in 5 gear about 100 meters.
6. Take out oil filter and clean it, and refill it with your normal oil.

I'm assuming the diesel fuel apparently finds it way from the Sprague Clutch and down in the oil filter. Right??

PS WTF is sauerkraut?? Even though I'm your neighbor I've always wondered  I know it is some sort of cabbage (and you might even put it on a hotdog ). Any one wondering why I ask, look at Chocolates country 

Ok mission accomplished.

Took a hard ride (up to top speed a couple of times).

Back home. Put the cleaning liquid in the engine. Started the bike and took a 1 km slow ride. Left the bike for 30 minutes running.

Drained the oil (and liquid). Almost like water in consistency.

Out with the oil filter and a new one in (yes I filled it with oil first).

New oil in the bike (never seen red oil before, except for chainsaws etc......ok it is now BLACK as any old oil, after a short start up, and hitting the gas a couple of times).

(quite a bit of smoke when hitting the gas).

103.395 km on the speedometer so we'll see how many km before the problem appears again (hopefully never).

PS Inside the plastic nut (the one you take off to put oil on the bike) there was grease (oil) like mayo (even same color). I have noticed through the oil level glass, some times???

The sediment on the oil fill plug might be antifreeze mixing with the oil. Your bike might have a small leak in the water pump seal. Keep an eye on that.

To many short trips in row when it's cold weather would cause this.

As Inge says. If the engine doesn't get hot enough to boil off the water contaminants then you'll end up with a white sludge in the oil. The usual recommendation is at least thirty miles / fifty-five Km to get the engine properly up to temperature. OTOH, if you're doing that every time and you've still got emulsion in the oil, then Rob could be right...

Inge K. wrote:To many short trips in row when it's cold weather would cause this.

 Hej min norske viking søster 

The Mayo or the starter spinning without engageging? I'm all ears since you drive In colder weather then I do.

Ups Dai already answered. Yes 90 % of my rides are 14 km to work and 7-9 hours later 14 km back.

I don't think (and hope) it is water. In 8 or more years I've only had to refill cooler liquid twice and not really because I needed to, just because  it was a bit under max

Update. Once yesterday (out of 3 starts) and once today (out of 3 starts), the starter spinned for max 2 sec and the engaged and started the engine. Don't know what to make of this? Guess I'll soon be looking for a German BMW bike garage close to the Danish border.

Oh by the way this link might be usefull:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/kstartersprag.htm

My regular trip to town is 14-16km and over time it does generate condensation in the engine. Not really noticed it on the K but definitely in the car. Not noticed in the K because it will always have at east one decent run of 2 hours during the week. However in one period it got no runs and noticed it. I don't have to top up coolant so that's not the cause.

Sauerkraut? Cabbage, my dad was a fan of it when we were young and only one place you would get it here. So plenty of it and pumpernickel to go with it.

Of course some might say its Angela Merkel on a bad day.

Now, if you are nice to 88 on this forum he might be able to tell you another way to sort the sprag clutch without using any spanners at all. There is a thread on it and we know it works.

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:There is a thread on it and we know it works.

Link PLEASE

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Now, if you are nice to 88 on this forum he might be able to tell you another way to sort the sprag clutch without using any spanners at all. There is a thread on it and we know it works.

It seams that Olaf likes to make you hot! :-)
He is waiting for a beer otherwise he will not post the link.

Cheers

He, he actually VERY funny. How ever I don't "make out" on first date, som  You (said with only humor).

I'm already friends with 88 and the "drilling hole" issue has been provided long ago via direct contact 

My bad that I didn't recognize 88 as my Facebook friend (only know him via is real name). Just noticed a new possible way of fixing my problem, but as you can understand it has already been provided.

Ah now I wasn't waiting for beer.

I was going to let 88 [Will] post up his experience with the hole for the sprag clutch but he has not yet had a chance.

I know the original thread is here somewhere but I did not get a chance to look for it. I think Will has refined it a bit more and has some very important suggestions. In simple terms you remove the sump plate under the engine [drain oil etc first], then drill into the engine from the outside, positioned so the hole in the sprag clutch is accessible through the hole you have just drilled. But its better to get the instructions direct from Will.

Will already offered to do the trick for me how ever Ireland  is unfurtenetly not on my "visit 2016" list 

I

Danish biker wrote:103.395 km on the speedometer so we'll see how many km before the problem appears again (hopefully never).

105.500 km now. The problem has not returned.

So apparently the cleaning liquid and new oil and filter solved the problem.

I've done the sticking sprag in the K75 and an intermittent sticking one in the K1100RS. 

With the right side (crank cover) off you can access the oilway holes in the sprag clutch. Turn the engine over gently you line it up where you can get a shot of cleaning oil in there.



The ring has 3 holes in it one is more rearward than the other two. Try to get oil in there soaking overnight and in each opening whilst turning it over slowly. 



I certainly will be doing this any time the crank cover is off.

thats invaluable knowledge , thank you 88.

great post Will

things that folks will always want to know

88 wrote:I've done the sticking sprag in the K75 and an intermittent sticking one in the K1100RS. 

With the right side (crank cover) off you can access the oilway holes in the sprag clutch. Turn the engine over gently you line it up where you can get a shot of cleaning oil in there. 



The ring has 3 holes in it one is more rearward than the other two. Try to get oil in there soaking overnight and in each opening whilst turning it over slowly. 



I certainly will be doing this any time the crank cover is off.

Brilliant. Now being on thin ice regarding the K1100 RS engine, could you post at picture of the cover, that need to be removed, from a distance?

Also what oil did you use to clean?

And last, do you change oil after this cleaning?

Danish biker wrote:
could you post at picture of the cover, that need to be removed, from a distance?

Inge K. wrote:

Danish biker wrote:
could you post at picture of the cover, that need to be removed, from a distance?

Thanks. Oh BTW how (where) do you turn the engine?

Danish biker wrote:

Inge K. wrote:

Danish biker wrote:
could you post at picture of the cover, that need to be removed, from a distance?

Crank cases......as per Ingepedia    

Thanks. Oh BTW how (where) do you turn the engine?

I turned the engine with an allen key in the end of the crank shaft because I had the Cam chain cover off too. You can also turn it by putting the bike in gear and turning the wheel slowly but its not as precise. Use a higher gear and remove a spark plug or two to reduce the compression on the engine.

The oil I used in the K75 (which had a completely stuck solid sprague clutch) was an old Graphite based penetrating oil I had in the workshop and I soaked it for 3 days turning occasionally to put more oil in. It was difficult to get the oil in because it is not aerosol based. I used a small capillary tube from a medical drip and a syringe.

For the K1100 maintenance treatment I just used WD40 to flush it a bit. It had showed early signs of sticking but these have now gone away.

88

I would be inclined to use the carb and throttle body cleaner, it works almost instantly on disolving that crud build up.

Once more thanks.

Do you change oil after the cleaning process

Danish biker wrote:Once more thanks.

Do you change oil after the cleaning process

Yes, do the oil for sure.

@Rick G....why didn't I think of that !!!  

(Probably becuase the Carb cleaner didn't fall off the shelf and hit me on the head  )

Dag Napid the problem is back again.

Got the bike out a month ago. Had to take off the front fork and get the shop to put new gaskets in. While the fork was off I changed the oil. Fork back on. Got all dressed this morning in order to go to work. Starter spinned but didn't connect. Crap.

Backed-up in second a couple of times. Nada!

Guess I'm back to egg.

I think I'll remove the crank cover. I´m asuming I'll have to drain the bike for oil first?

What tourge do the cover need to be tightened with, after the opreation with WD-40?

And where how will all the WD-40 (and dirt) get out of the engine??????

Game on thanks to 88

Danish biker wrote:Thanks to 88 I got it back working. Must have mailed 88 about 40 times and each time he gave me the needed advice


The three small holes was sprayed with WD-40. Every second hour the crank was turned, a new Tuborg was opened and a new hole was sprayed. During these two hours I sprayed 3-5 times and gently tapped the gear. 20 times the gear was turned for next hole.  40 hours (plus too nights with out work) and 2 boxes of Tuborg later the job was done.

Fixed that for you.

A brilliant outcome too.

Instead of using WD40 use some carb and throttle body cleaner and 2 or 3 applications and you're away.

RicK G wrote:Instead of using WD40 use some carb and throttle body cleaner and 2 or 3 applications and you're away.

But why? The WD-40 worked. Just joking I know why but I'm happy with the WD-40 technique. No I just hope the grid/dirt what ever will flush out with the oil change.

Heaps quicker

RicK G wrote:Heaps quicker

Yes I can imagine how ever starting up the bike, running it hot to get a good oil change might not be as safe as when using WD-40.

Danish biker wrote:

RicK G wrote:Heaps quicker

Yes I can imagine how ever starting up the bike, running it hot to get a good oil change might not be as safe as when using WD-40.

The carb cleaner will evaporate before or during warming up the engine 
Nice job, geting it working again 👍

K- rider

k-rider wrote:

Danish biker wrote:

RicK G wrote:Heaps quicker

Yes I can imagine how ever starting up the bike, running it hot to get a good oil change might not be as safe as when using WD-40.

The carb cleaner will evaporate before or during warming up the engine 
Nice job, geting it working again 👍

K- rider

I'm extremely pleased. Of course i had just put in new Oil one day before the sprang clutch didn't engage so that was about $70 out the window. Oh well now i can go riding and enjoying my newly fixed fork.

Since the subject of oil has arisen: 



Shell Rotella T4 15W40 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil:


https://www.walmart.com/ip/RotT4TriProt15W40CJ4-3-1ugl-A0II/181236405


I have been using this for years now. Readily available, at least any where in the USA I have traveled. Used in 1981 R65, 1991 R100 & planning to continue forth using in my newly acquired 1985 K100RT. 

Just my 2¢ 

Troy

Another Rotella option is the T6 5-40 full synthetic.

88 wrote:I've done the sticking sprag in the K75 and an intermittent sticking one in the K1100RS. 

With the right side (crank cover) off you can access the oilway holes in the sprag clutch. Turn the engine over gently you line it up where you can get a shot of cleaning oil in there.



The ring has 3 holes in it one is more rearward than the other two. Try to get oil in there soaking overnight and in each opening whilst turning it over slowly. 



I certainly will be doing this any time the crank cover is off.

Is this one of the holes you're referring to?

duck wrote:
Another Rotella option is the T6 5-40 full synthetic.

+1.  23 bucks at Walmart.  No need to send in the rebate.

Would the one to the left work better then normal WD-40

I have just gone through the sprague clutch saga
It was "frozen" solid and was unable to unstick it with back push in 3rd gear.
While at the auto parts store buying the diesel oil to do the oil change I noticed a product called Rislone - an engine treatment/cleaner for $12.99
Snowbum mentions it in his tech article - link earlier in this thread
This product can be used at anytime just pour it in, I did that and after a push start and about 4km and 15 minutes riding around the block the clutch freed up
I will still use the diesel oil for an oil change cycle as I have bought it at $43.95 for 5 ltr but is probably not necessary as the starter works fine again. For anyone looking for the cheaper, quicker and easiest option to free up the Sprague this product seems to clean it up ok. How long it will last is any bodies guess but it might be worth running it through the engine once a year or so just to keep it clean

Your $43:00 can of oil, is it a diesel flush oil as in high detergent? I was of the understanding that using diesel oil of any detergent level was better than the petrol oil equivalent. I am surprised to hear you bike's Starter has clogged whilst running Diesel Oil.

It would be interesting to see if the carby cleaner method would drop any more crud out of in there, since you've used the Rislone product. It would be a wise Idea to just buy some cheap az oil to flush out the crud on this oil change before using the good  Diesel Oil.

Sorry, I have been using petrol oil in the bike and the diesel oil was for the freeing up of the Sprague, I haven't put it in as yet
Diesel oil I bought was just normal in house repco stuff