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1Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Shaft and drive splines Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:30 am

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
I don´t know how things are with the new (Yamaha FJR1300) Police bikes in Reykjavik, but old bikes from the Police are infamous for almost nonexistent maintenance and for having being badly neglected. The only times they got looked at, was when something broke. The tools used seem to have been mostly sledgehammers and crowbars. I have seen some pretty horrible examples of “maintenance and repair” on old Police BMW's and HD´s in my time.

When I got my K75RT ex police bike, one of my first jobs was to lubricate the rear drive splines and gearbox output splines. I used Optimol T white paste, for driveshaft, gearbox and bevel drive splines as recommended at the time by Motobins in the UK. I had a look at the Invoice, to be sure that I remembered this correctly and here is the line from the Invoice. Part No.95815 OPTIMOL T WHITE PASTE DRIVESHAFT/G BOX/BEVEL ALL K 100GRAM TUBE.

My bike had only 29.000 kilometers on the clock when I got it, unusually low for a Police bike, but still showing many signs of neglectance. I suspect that the splines have never being lubricated since new, until I did it. I seem to remember that I found the drive splines to be in good condition but the splines at the rear end of the shaft showed some wear. At the time, I decided to use it, at least until the next lubrication.

Now I'm in there again after about seven thousand miles. I took out the drive and the driveshaft this weekend and after inspecting it I have my doubts about using OPTIMOL T WHITE PASTE on the drive splines and I am afraid I will have to fork out 250 Pounds for a new driveshaft! I think (and hope) the drive splines are good, but the rear splines of the drive shaft show what I think is rather heavy wear and there is a substantial play evident when I slide the shaft upon the splines and wiggle it.

Please take a look at the pictures. All comments and opinions are very much appreciated to help me to decide what to do.


Shaft and drive splines IMG_1593_zps44471d39


Shaft and drive splines IMG_1595_zps97e84628

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1590_zps72b206fb

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1623_zps599e7bd0

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1622_zpsabfda92a

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1617_zpsec5f1a92

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1612_zpsd1e395b0

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1604_zps24f6daea

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1584_zpsbc2a7d46

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1583_zps3ba501cd

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1577_zps4e7ea268

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1575_zps9b5b33de



Last edited by TIV on Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

2Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:17 am

walfish

walfish
Life time member
Life time member
I've seen much worse, to me there is still a bit of life there if you don't twist too quickly. I picked up a second hand shaft in good condition for 90 quid from Motorworks.
Do you have contact with any of the FB members, you could try and persuade them to post you some of their Staburags spline lube.

 Shaft and drive splines 22936


__________________________________________________
Shaft and drive splines Uk-log10
                            88 K75 S 0107569 (she's a keeper)
                            88 K 100  0033026 (gone)
   
                            92 K 1100 LT  6455097 (gone)
    

3Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:09 am

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
I have already got me some Staburags. As I said, the rear splines on the shaft look pretty worn, but the drive splines seem to me to be OK. I really would like to have opinions from forum members about the condition of the drive splines. There is only one way to drive the K75: "like you stole it".



Last edited by TIV on Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correct spelling)


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

4Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:48 am

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
If you are going to ride like you stole it then go steal another one for spares.
The splines on the drive are acceptable but not by any means good and the shaft is considerable worse.
Motobins can supply you with a weld on spline replacement part
http://www.motobins.co.uk/bmw-parts.php?model=K%20Series 
I replaced one a while ago and did a rocwall hardness test which was a bit harder than the OEM but not significantly harder and when I set the shaft up in the lathe to remove the spline there was .013" runout and when finished .002" runout so it came up better than OEM.
Any good engineering shop should be able to do it.
As for the drive I would try to get a 2.91 ratio from a K100RT which is a big improvement over the 3.2 ratio of the original K75 and a bonus is better fuel consumption (they are easier to get as well).


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

5Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:39 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks RicK. I think I´ll go for the weld on replacement shaft from Motobins. They offer a repaired shaft for 95 Pounds if I send them my old one. In the meantime I will go hunting for a drive. Is it OK to use my „acceptable but not by any means good“ drive in the meantime? Will it harm the „new“ shaft?



It would be interesting to know if someone at the forum has changed the drive to 2,91. What are the pros and cons?



Last edited by TIV on Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : addition)


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

6Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:06 pm

MikeP

MikeP
Life time member
Life time member
I'd not use it. 

Splines are like screw/bolt threads, to work they need the correct interface between the mating surfaces. One that's damaged will soon damage the other.

My guess is that the slight wear you found at the last inspection has resulted in the rapid wear that you now see.

No amount of Optimol paste will stop that happening.


__________________________________________________
1992 K1
1993 K1100R (used to be an LT)
    

7Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:09 pm

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
I have a 2.91 drive in my wifes K75RT and it is really good. She gets 65mpg so nearly 400km to a tank and it doesn't sound or feel like iy needs another gear.
I would use it if I had no choice but as Mike said it is best not to start that wear pattern over again.
2.91 gears are easy to find all the K100 RT/LT and K1100LT had them.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

8Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:52 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
I asked my friend in Hamburg, who has been breaking police BMW for many years, if he could help me. 

Here is his answer:
You can easily fit other bevel drives. The police version has the regular 37:11 that means good acceleration and a lower top speed. The Rpm is very high at higher speed. You can use other drive ratios such as 32:10, 32:11 and more. In some cases you might need a 16 teeth driveshaft. We will brake a K100 in January. Shall we get back to you then?


Frank deals on fleebay if you are interested http://www.neumann-werke.de/


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

9Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:01 am

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
There is a 33/11 which is in between the K100RT and your K75 drive but I have a feeling that they were 16 spline shaft.
It is good that you have that contact for parts unfortunately for us in Australia the postage is a real killer.
If you do put a 2.91 drive in it pays to give the engine about 4° more advance at base idle, it gives a heap more torque at low revs and helps overcome higher gearing in 1st gear. I found you need to use the clutch a little more at take off but once you get used to it all is good.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

10Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:38 am

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
I am a little confused here. Frank talks about 32:10, 33:11, and you RicK talk about 2.91, 3.2 e.t.c. Forgive me, but english isn´t my native language and I sometimes have difficulties understanding technical terms. 

I realize that we are talking about gearing here. Is 32:11 same as 3.2? Is 33:11 higher gearing than 32:10? Can someone please explain this to me.



Last edited by TIV on Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling error)


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

11Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:52 am

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
They are different ways of expressing the same concept -- the ratio of input rotations to output rotations.  One is expressed as tooth count (32:11) and the other as the division of those teeth (32 / 11 = 2.91).  Anton's page will give you good insight into the various final drive ratios available for K-bikes & R-bikes. The cool feature of that page is the graphing function that can allow you to compare the engine RPMs for a given speed between different ratios.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

12Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:19 am

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
Thanks Robert, after looking at Antons page this is easily understood.    My drive is stamped 32/10 which then is 3.2. I have been pleased with it so far, so probably no reason to change this.

I have in front of me a perfect example of what happens if the rear splines are not kept lubricated. My bike has only about 43.000 kilometers on the clock and the final drive and drive shaft are ruined. A new set costs a fortune and a used one will cost half a fortune, so I will try to find a used set in good condition. The problem is that it has to be in a very good condition. If wear has started I´ll be worse off and I´ll be in the same steps in another 8.000 miles or so.

When I got the bike with just inside 30.000 km on the clock I found the splines completely dried out and I suspect they have never being lubricated from new. 

At the time, I thought the drive splines were in acceptable condition, but that the splines at the rear end of the shaft showed more wear. I decided to use it as it was, at least until the next lubrication. As Mike says, it has already been over the hill and what I thought to be a slight wear at the last inspection, has probably resulted in the rapid wear that I now have. Once wear has started, there is no turning back.



Last edited by TIV on Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : addition)


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

13Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:25 pm

ReneZ

ReneZ
Life time member
Life time member
TIV, I wouldn't have an issue using your old drive. Yes, there is some wear, but the drive is quite a bit harder than the shaft inner splines. The shark tooth you see inside the shaft is nowhere near what you see on the drive. There will initially be some accelerated wear until both parts meet up over the full contact surface. I'm really surprised that the wear was so fast after greasing; did you find any water in there?


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida Australia! Having a 'new' K     Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) Scotland Shaft and drive splines Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223) Florida
BMW K1200GT - 2004 (ZK27240) Australia
    

14Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:19 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
Hi ReneZ. No water in there. Unfortunately I didn´t take pictures when I got the bike and overhauled it about 7.000 miles ago. I might have underestimated the wear at the time, but my feeling is that it has increased, especially the shaft splines.


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

15Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:43 pm

TIV

TIV
Silver member
Silver member
I've got a used final drive from Motorworks and a used OEM shaft is on it´s way from Canada. It´s in mint condition according to Bruno at Bruno's Machine & Repair. 

I think the splines are in good condition. 

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1627_zps6b2ccdcf

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1629_zpsb39231b3

The crown seal is not leaking, but it´s ugly, so I decided to open the F-D in order to clean it and put in a new seal, O-ring and take a look at the interiors.
Shaft and drive splines IMG_1640_zpse9dd19cf


Shaft and drive splines IMG_1639_zps93b32945

Everything looks good on the inside, no chipped teeth or anything else that I can see.
Shaft and drive splines IMG_1630_zps63d7bafd

Shaft and drive splines IMG_1634_zpsf50dc035

No play can be felt in the crown wheel bearing and it spins freely and smoothly.
Shaft and drive splines IMG_1633_zps1a8b9bbb

It seems that he pinion spins smoothly when I turn it by hand and I can't feel any burr or hear any noises from the bearings. 
Shaft and drive splines IMG_1637_zps70ed3812


__________________________________________________
1936 Harley Davidsson 750 (sold), 1964 BMW R69S (sold), 1973 Suzuki RM400 (sold), 1972 Triumph Bonneville (sold), 1971 BSA Thunderbolt (sold), 1972 BSA Lightning (sold), 1977 Yamaha XS650 (sold), 1971, BMW R75/5 (sold), 1973 BMW R75/6 (sold), 1984 BMW R100RT 1992 Yamaha FJ1200 ABS (sold), 1990 Harley Davidson Electra Glide (sold)
1990 BMW K75RT Ex-Police (owned now)
2004 BMW R1150RT iABS (owned now)

Cheers TIV
    

gabriel

avatar
Platinum member
Platinum member
Shaft and drive splines Imagejpeg

    

17Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:12 pm

gabriel

avatar
Platinum member
Platinum member
Oooops!
My photo is gone......

How do I post a photo?..I am using an iPad..
Thanks..

Cheers

    

18Back to top Go down   Shaft and drive splines Empty Re: Shaft and drive splines Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:51 am

ReneZ

ReneZ
Life time member
Life time member
Looking good TIV!


__________________________________________________
Greetings from Florida Australia! Having a 'new' K     Surprised-o: 

Rene


BMW K100 - 1985 (0030029) Scotland Shaft and drive splines Rain
BMW K1200GT - 2003 (ZK01223) Florida
BMW K1200GT - 2004 (ZK27240) Australia
    

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