Help!!!! Look what I've found... Sure in shouldn't be like this



 Got both pieces out


Look like its made of plastic!
What is it,? where should it be,? can I get a replacement?
Could this be the cause of a terrible rattle?

Further reading.....
Is it the thrust washer? Or stop disc, as it is referred to in the fiche

#10
Are these some sort of plastic
Listing refer to 2, 1mm and 1.25mm
How do you know which you should have?

Output shaft oil seal???

the.postman wrote:Further reading.....
Is it the thrust washer? Or stop disc, as it is referred to in the fiche

#10
Are these some sort of plastic
Listing refer to 2, 1mm and 1.25mm
How do you know which you should have?

I don't think so. That large washer is steel and is too big to find its way through the seal:

I have seen compressed fibre spacers there but as to how one determines which thickness to put there is beyond me.
There is a possibliity that it spaces the clutch carrier so that the new seal runs in a different part of the seal surface but it is unlikely.
I was discussing that with Charlie on the weekend when taking the shaft out of an engine I have here.

I can tell you that the 1985 K100rt 2V parts bike I dismantled did have this plastic washer between the output shaft bearing and the clutch carrier housing, just as the one you found in the pics.

Yours was cracked when you found it, correct?
You definitely need a new one.
I sent the only one I had to someone recently who had "lost" the one he took out.

I think it is less likely that it will cure the rattle.

I just checked my K75 spare engine....I don't see the washer so I probably included it in the kit when I sold the used clutch assy.

I'll be interested to see what transpires after you get it all figured out.

Regards, Ibj...

ibjman wrote:I just checked my K75 spare engine....I don't see the washer so I probably included it in the kit when I sold the used clutch assy.

 K75 doesn't seem to have them.

It looks like I'm not the only one with this problem. Bottom of page. Looks like Inge has been giving advice to these fellows... What a guy!

It must be made of something rather special.... $23 or $30 for a "plastic" washer!!!!

Item #10

Quote from another forum       Here

At the bottom of page..

.""All K100-K1200s have the thrust washer. They'll knock quite loudly without it. No K75 had them

BMW said (roughly) to: "measure the original and replace with one of equal thickness". Hard to do if it's missing. However, I've not seen a 1.25mm washer in any K-Bike I've had apart.""




So my broken $25 piece of plastic could be the cause of the rattle/ knocking

just some thoughts ...

on the early k s there was listed a belvile type washer between the two cogs for the tensioner spring anti backlash assembly .
the suggested bmw advice papers say to chuck that washer (which makes sense  that the washer would have become dished out ) and fit an appropriately measured spacer .

this new discovery between output bearing and basket ..is interesting
as alby has indicated that there is a bit of movement of that whole assembly ...after refurbishment
rick and I discovered similar when pulling a 12 rivet shaft the other weekend .
could these soft washers be a mod to the earlier than 88 ish assemblies ?  we didn't find any such devices in our disassembly ....but we did see a couple of metal shims in there ...this would have been an original assembly fit up I suggest, to that particular engine.  

in any case ...food for thought at least

 I am intending to go in there soonish but I am seeking to have a definitive fix before I start ...or at least some more feedback before then ....

got a few bits and pieces just recently ...including a 1.75 mm washer ....for that assembly



may have to wait a bit longer I recon

Well non of the usual parts suppliers (motorworks, moto-bins, James Sherlock) have them, so have had to go to BMW main dealer. Non in stock but BMWUK are showing "one" in stock at £15.80.  Well if that's the only one left, I better have it.

you can't find a good used one locally?

Well I thought about it, but, there is nothing local, and everything else going in there is brand new, got a good deal on complete clutch and housing, so it would be a shame to put used things for the cost of half a gallon of good oil!
So from clutch lever, cable, new needle bearings and pin, rubber cup seal, complete clutch and flywheel will all be new, Hey whats another £15

Every 2 valves engines (K75-K100) that I disassembled had this trust fiber washer. As everybody, I don't have an answer about the purpose of it. 
 What should be the thickness of it? I don't have a clue.
Hope this helps.  

CF

Here is a quick video about replacing the clutch.

MikeP wrote:

the.postman wrote:Further reading.....
Is it the thrust washer? Or stop disc, as it is referred to in the fiche

#10
Are these some sort of plastic
Listing refer to 2, 1mm and 1.25mm
How do you know which you should have?

I don't think so. That large washer is steel and is too big to find its way through the seal:

If you check the pick on Jez's posting Romoving cover plate from clutch you can see the washer behind the seal and looking closely can see that it is worn, it has a little lip on the outer edge, Definitely Plastic or as CF has corrected a fiber washer.
I now have a new one and def. not metal

Ho Postman,

Did you end up getting your stop disc deliv./installed?  I couldn't work out what this was either, I just thought it was a part of the main seal (broken down). It didn't quiet compute when you commented on my post, but as I've been mentally getting my ducks in a row in prep for putting the "Frau" back together and searching the forum, and saw this thread..

I didn't get why this thing was on the inside of the seal, (seems yours was too),
The Clymer manual pg133 fig.207 shows it (calls it a thrust washer) and tells you to push it in till it bottoms out. Did it sit inside the seal? Did you get a pic of it fitted?

Did it cure your rattle? I've had said rattle and hoping this is it.

Sorry for all the questions, Motobins delivery expected this week and I guess now I'm searching for a new part.

Jez

I got my new thrust washer now fitted and its all back together.

the washer (10 ) sits on the end of the shaft of the clutch housing tight up to the step that sits in the main seal so when its assembled it will of course pass through the main seal.

The whole clutch from handlebar lever right through to clutch housing has now been replaced/refurbed and its "as smooth as a very smooth thing"

what was the washer made of postie ?

never having seen a new one ...you might have been able to guess ?

I honestly thought mine was plastic Charlie when I removed it. I was a bit confused. It snapped like plastic as I pulled it out, but surely it ain't.

Here's one I intend to grab after I confirm it's thickness, apparently there are 2 or three different sizes.

Jez.

thanks mate ....
also thanks for the link  

it really helps when you get a good squiz (look) at it

cheers

They are what I know as a composite fibre washer and by the look of things there was a change to a metal washer at the introduction of the 16v engine. Although when I had the clutch off my K1100 I don't recall if it was a fibre or metal washer.
One thing that puzzles me is what is the purpose of the washer and why have 2 thickness of them, I suppose BMW have their reasons but as with many of their ideas may remain a puzzle.

Yeah what concerns me about that varying size thing, is that (I think above in this thread)  I read that you should replace with the same size? Mine was worn or squashed very thin. How would I know.

Jez

They shouldn't wear as the two surfaces turn at the same speed but in saying that could very easily be hammered a bit if some slack occurs. I would measure the thing and replace with the size just above what the current thickness.
I haven't been able to find any reference as to how to determine what thickness should be used.

BMW say replace your washer with the same thickness.... Like I'm going to be able to tell if my broken washer was 1mm or 1.25mm, as Jez says it feels like a brittle plastic

And why would the K75s not have them???



But Hey a new one has stopped my clutch from rattling
And boy did it rattle, you can hear it in the vid here   listen for the spitfire playing in the background... one of the joys of having a shed on an airfield

If you measure it and its over 1mm then it was a 1.25mm and if it is under 1mm then chances it was a 1mm spacer. Thats not guaranteed but will be fairly good.
The washer should not wear as it is held under tension from torquing the clutch nut.

The K75 have a similar but different clutch and as far as I know none of the parts are interchangeable.

From what I can see of the setup it would not matter at all if the 1.25 spacer was used regardless of what was in there.

could this be the solution to lots of our rattling on startup noises

honestly ...alby has done up his output shaft and still has the issue ....(noting that there is still some movement front to aft after the work) ..as rick and I spied during a removal of a 12 rivet output shaft recently
(and still has the noise after replacing just about all bearings spacers and things throughout )

that vid of your noise, postie ...sounded incredibly similar to mine on start up this morning ....now having heard it properly, sans housing and gearbox etc .

I wonder if the expansion of the aluminium takes up that gap somewhat as the whole engine gets to temperature .
could possibly the metal replacement ring - spacer be the "end all solution" ?

Well Postman,

That's a familiar noise I reckon. Although yours is open in your vid, sound kinda similar to mine. (just before I cut the engine in the video).

Hope I have the same result, I'm looking for smooth as something really smooth as well. (Or in Black Adder terms, "As smooth as ten really smooth things")

Here's mine from pre-pull down.





Regards,

Jez.

PS Yes I know the oil seems a little low!

Poor quality "AFTER" vid



No clutch rattle

yay !!

Sounds like music to me.

Jez.

Just to finalise, my own submission to this thread,

Washer fitted, rattle gone!

 

Jez.

onya jez !

Jez wrote:Just to finalise, my own submission to this thread,

Washer fitted, rattle gone!

 

Jez.

Good show jez so we can expect to see you at Smithys Jolly Jaunt through the Mountains in a couple of weeks?

Gotta get out soon to buy some beers for those who have helped Rick, but the bike won't be going too far until such time as I can twist that throttle and get the girl moving outta harms way EVERY time.
See how I go with getting the Bike running a little smooother.

Jez:beer:

Great to hear all's well and rattle free