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1Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri May 03, 2013 1:27 pm

Lazyboy

Lazyboy
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I always use a torque wrench where possible and torque settings as per the manual. But not having had formal mechanical training a blonde question? : When the torque setting is given as 22Nm+- 2 what should your decision be 20Nm 22Nm or 24Nm ????
Lazyboy.


__________________________________________________
1984 BMW K100RT

Bikes Name: Lazyboy
    

2Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty reply Fri May 03, 2013 1:59 pm

ibjman

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22 is the spec. You can go a tiny bit more, but never any less.
I would attempt to get at least 22 + a little towards 23. If you get to 24 you need to loosen & retry.

    

3Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty torques Fri May 03, 2013 3:10 pm

elle

elle
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hi i always read it as 22nm but it can be btween 20 and 24 ( + - 2) . its just there as differnet torque wrenches are callibrated slighty different. With the BMWs always just get the torque that it says first ie 22nm. Hondas are the most nonforgiving theyll strip a thread if you pass by 0.5 . pete not going to give speel that i had to sit and listen for an hourand half in college about spring forces blah blah .

pete

    

4Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty I mis read the original post Fri May 03, 2013 5:40 pm

ibjman

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I did not read the information correctly.
He says + - 2.
I read it as +2.
The best you can do is try very hard for the stated spec. If you go over/under by 1 your good.
Sorry for the bad reply

    

5Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat May 04, 2013 6:25 am

Guest

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I saw a utube video and he said lower spec if using new crush washers and upper spec if you are reusing the crush washers. Being on utube is has to be true Smile

    

6Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Torque Wrenches Sat May 04, 2013 4:31 pm

eastern_phoenix

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Caution!!! Although the torque wrench may look the amatears dream they are certainly not. Most wrenches are inaccurate, many aluminium casting are stripped by there misuse. In industry they are checked very regularly against a master instrument by inspection peronel. Never never never, set a wrench to the required load straight off always always work up to the correct value a step at a time if 20nms are required go 7 then 16 and finally 20. If at any time the load feels to high stop and check feel is still important. The advantage of a torque wrench is consistancy which ensure that the load is shared equally by all bolts in the pattern. Ok undertighten and it will possibly come loose but if you over tighten you run the risk stripping threads or worse still weaken the joint by taking the bolt beyond is load perfomance leading to breakages. If you can get it checked if it has been out of the box for any amount of time.

Best of luck

    

7Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Well said Eastern - Sat May 04, 2013 4:47 pm

ibjman

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Well said. I agree completely. I usually try to "err" on the lighter side of the spec, especially on this bike.

    

8Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Thu May 16, 2013 2:19 pm

Lazyboy

Lazyboy
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Thanks All for the good advice.
Lazyboy


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1984 BMW K100RT

Bikes Name: Lazyboy
    

9Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty talking torquing theads Thu May 16, 2013 6:07 pm

mawhera

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Great discussion, the thing with older metals they crystalise, especially aluminium alloys subjected to heating and cooling cycles, expanding and contracting many times.
Great advise about stepped torque up and feel - thats it. Bolt / nut locking technology has come a long way with loctite but I prefer star or spring washers, locking tab washers and wire if essential, especially on all those hidden threads once the machine is assembled. Loctite is fine steel to steel but heat slowly lessens its effect hence tabs are good where called for. Great learning here.
Rick

    

10Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Torquing up Thu May 16, 2013 7:08 pm

eastern_phoenix

eastern_phoenix
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Just a further point. The convention is for the torque settings to assume that the both threads are dry. Always check that the torque is not supposed with lubricated threads so beware. If you use copper slip or any other anti sieze back of a bit. Dry to oiled can vary by upto 50% and over stress the bolts. Having been apprenticed in the pre loctite era and having gone through the sales hype about loctite my experience is it ain't all it's cracked up to be, use it only as a last resort; tab washers, star and spring washers (only on flat machined surfaces) split pins, nyloc nuts,and wiring are infinitely supperior. On some BMW genuine spares you will see what looks like blue paint now that is a very good thread lock. Hope this is of help.

    

11Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Hmmm Thu May 16, 2013 7:30 pm

ibjman

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I have never seen a torque spec that is intended for dry threads.???Shocked

    

12Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:05 pm

drut

drut
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ibjman wrote:I have never seen a torque spec that is intended for dry threads.???Shocked
 As a retired car mechanic I have:e.g.most wheelnuts/bolts are specified no lube or copperslip. http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair/torque-wrench-101-how-to-get-the-right-amount-of-force-2 is worth a read. In my experience only bolt stretch measurement gives precise measurement otherwise friction differences(rusty/clean/lubed/dry) only get you somewhere near.

    

13Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:34 pm

JGT

JGT
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Wasn't there was a problem years ago when the monolever was introduced due to the wheel bolts coming loose because owners greased them.

    

14Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:18 pm

japuentes

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Hi there, all I could add to this subject is that you should not use the torque wrench with an universal joint extension, unless you have the resources and skills to calculate the real applied torque, this  equals the measured one only when the joint is straight, otherwise will be minor  and it will decrease as the deviation angle increases (reaching cero for 90deg angle) following a fairly complicated formula ,  googleing the subject you'll find detailed explanations.

Best regards

JAP


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Correct use of a Torque Wrench 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

15Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:25 pm

Rick G

Rick G
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ibjman wrote:I have never seen a torque spec that is intended for dry threads.???Shocked
+10


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

16Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Torque Drives Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:32 pm

K100LT Notts

K100LT Notts
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I was in  a tool shop recently and saw a flexible drive (looked like a short piece of shower hose in that it was a wound construction). Would this transmit the correct torque?

It looked like this


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Clarke-PRO137-Drive-Flexible-Extension/dp/B00BDMWSO0/ref=sr_1_15?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1377455969&sr=1-15&keywords=flexible+drive#productDetails

    

17Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:02 pm

drut

drut
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RicK G wrote:
ibjman wrote:I have never seen a torque spec that is intended for dry threads.???Shocked
+10
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/torquevalues.htm

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/torquespecs&problems.htm

Reading the above links may enlighten.

    

18Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:58 pm

MikeP

MikeP
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ibjman wrote:I have never seen a torque spec that is intended for dry threads.???Shocked
Rear wheel bolts are. Always.

    

19Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:47 am

Guest

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I needed to torque a reverse bolt today so anticlockwise. I've got 3 tension wrenches here and none of them work in reverse. Whada ya do Correct use of a Torque Wrench 61740

    

20Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:38 am

MikeP

MikeP
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My torque wrenches all allow the square drive to be pushed through the head so that they can be used for left-hand threads.

I don't think I've ever seen one that doesn't (look again Robin).


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1992 K1
1993 K1100R (used to be an LT)
    

21Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:51 am

Guest

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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/121137423856?showlimghlp=true&lpid=93

Too late for garage stuff, it's 1am Smile  but that's one of them. I don't think the head reverses, maybe it does?

    

22Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:19 pm

Avenger GT

Avenger GT
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That type of torque wrench only works one way, they are "solid" in reverse i.e, no click. I have two of them here, and out of curiosity I just checked them. I also have one of the type that you push the square drive through on, and of course that works both ways.

    

23Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:24 pm

Guest

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They just flog off all the crap no one else will buy down here at twice the price Very Happy

    

24Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:16 pm

MikeP

MikeP
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What's that switch for?


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1992 K1
1993 K1100R (used to be an LT)
    

25Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:21 pm

Guest

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I reverses the ratchet but none of them click in reverse.

    

26Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:06 am

MikeP

MikeP
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Of course. Embarassed 

Perhaps the problem is that being upside down, it would be too complicated to make an antipodean one that goes backwards too?


__________________________________________________
1992 K1
1993 K1100R (used to be an LT)
    

27Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:32 am

k-rider

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i have always used valvoline  X-ALL grease for Wheel bolts, never had any problems?
MikeP wrote:
ibjman wrote:I have never seen a torque spec that is intended for dry threads.???Shocked
Rear wheel bolts are. Always.

    

28Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:43 am

MikeP

MikeP
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k-rider wrote:i have always used valvoline  X-ALL grease for Wheel bolts, never had any problems?
I think that we all do things that are not recommended at times. It doesn't alter what's recommended.


__________________________________________________
1992 K1
1993 K1100R (used to be an LT)
    

29Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:31 am

BIG D

BIG D
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Cool 

Torquewrenches are one of the most abused tools, part of my job [ in the Mil/Air environment ] is that each Torquewrench gets tested every three months the test involves readings taken three times each at minimum 0, 25%, 50%, 75%, and at Maximum over the wrench's range thats fifteen times each wrench.
Each wrench has a minimum and maximum per % test and if it exceeds or does not reach the minimum it is scrapped, fixed range types have to be adjusted to the given setting and locked.

Before use the airman [women] has to sign for using the wrench and has to test it against the value they need and register its number on the job card, We spend a lot of time educating people how to use these peices of test equipment and how they should not be used for breaker bars ect and most important is that adjustable types SHOULD ALWAYS be unwound after use otherwise it weakens the spring.

A respectable garage should hold a Torque tester meter so maybe they could test them for you, and if you look on the manufacturers webb site like NORBAR it has all the info required to look after them and also has the test charts for working out conversions with adaptors and measurements.


BIG D



Last edited by BIG D on Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : info)

    

30Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:51 am

BIG D

BIG D
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Cool 
Should anyone be interested, lifted from Norbar info on bolts and torque

Correct use of a Torque Wrench Norbar13

    

31Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:47 pm

floyd

floyd
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Anyone tried the torque wrench from Motobins?


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K100 with lots of K1100 bits - mongrel of a thing...
    

32Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:08 pm

RT

RT
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I've always wondered about the effect of using a small extension socket bar to get into tight places. Does this
add or detract from the correct torque when tightening?. Anyone care to guess?.
Tks, RT


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2011 R1200RT
    

33Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:17 pm

japuentes

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Hi there, as long as the extension is straight and doesn't changes the angle, it would not affect the torque.
Best regards
JAP


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Correct use of a Torque Wrench 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

34Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:27 pm

Inge K.

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But examine the extension very carefully and if you find the small letters "Made in China" add
20% torque for every 10 cm extension lenght.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

35Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:35 pm

japuentes

japuentes
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Inge K. wrote:But examine the extension very carefully and if you find the small letters "Made in China" add
20% torque for every 10 cm extension lenght.
Hi Inge, I´m sorry I don´t understand, why to increase the torque?
Best regards
JAP


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Correct use of a Torque Wrench 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

36Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:40 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Did you read the small letters?   ...........or have used cheap Chinese tools?


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

37Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:01 pm

japuentes

japuentes
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Inge K. wrote:Did you read the small letters?   ...........or used cheap Chinese tools?
Sorry, the small letters didn't show in my screen, now I see "made in china", but I think that the extension wont change the reading, it may twist but as long as it stays straight the measured torque should be the applied one.
Best regards
JAP


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Correct use of a Torque Wrench 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

38Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:37 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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From time to time I ain't that serious..........especially on a late Saturday/early Sunday
................it was primary meant as a joke.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

39Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:51 am

japuentes

japuentes
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Well, you got me  Very Happy 
Now you can say BAZINGA Shocked 
Best regards
JAP


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Correct use of a Torque Wrench 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

40Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:00 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Inge K. wrote:From time to time I ain't that serious..........especially on a late Saturday/early Sunday

 drunken  drunken


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

41Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:01 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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japuentes wrote:Now you can say BAZINGA Shocked 

 👽  👽  bounce


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

42Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:17 pm

frogy

frogy
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Back in 70s when I was a Mech. I remember SnapOn selling an ext. set for impact guns. Each extension would equal a diff. torque value when installing lug nuts on wheels. I never bought a set. I could not understand how these could be used on different guns from diff. manufact.
But I do feel the value of torque will be changed with a long extension added to a torque wrench.
Ok, let the bashing commence Very Happy

    

43Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:31 pm

japuentes

japuentes
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frogy wrote:Back in 70s when I was a Mech. I remember SnapOn selling an ext. set for impact guns. Each extension would equal a diff. torque value when installing lug nuts on wheels. I never bought a set. I could not understand how these could be used on different guns from diff. manufact.
But I do feel the value of torque will be changed with a long extension added to a torque wrench.
Ok, let the bashing commence Very Happy
Hi there, I´m afraid that your feelings are not shared by physics.
A straight, static, shaft supported only at both ends, with a torque applied at one end will have the same torque in opposite direction at the other end, because for it to be static the sum of moments has to be zero, and that is a physics law.
My guess is that the confusion begins with a method for tightening bolts known as the "final rotation method" on which you reach the final torque by rotating the head of the bolt a specified angle (usually 90º) if you do that with an extension and measures the rotation at the distal end (not at the bolt) you'll need to consider the torsional deformation of the extension´s shaft and ad it to the target angle in order to reach it, but the torque will be the same.
Or not...
Hope this helps.
Best regards
JAP


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Correct use of a Torque Wrench 2854237993 1988 K100RS SE/ABS
    

44Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:12 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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The extensions Frogy have in mind is to be used only together with a impact gun.

When the predetermined torque is reached the extension start to flex,
you can let the impact gun just hammer...the extension will just flex and
not transfer more torque to the bolt/nut.


__________________________________________________
Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

45Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:31 am

Holister

Holister
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ALDI have this TORQUE WRENCH for sale this weekend. I know there are different types but any thought about this one?
Would it be worthwhile purchasing?
Is there any way of testing to see if its delivering the correct torque?

Only $25... and they have a 30 day returns policy. Can't go wrong really.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 Correct use of a Torque Wrench Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

46Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:15 am

Rick G

Rick G
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Yeah they are OK middle of the range bur before you use it try it against a high quality one as they do vary a lot, just so you know to set high or a bit low to compensate.
I have a full set of Warren and Brown but not everybody wants to spend $1700 on 4 wrenches.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

47Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:25 am

Fentible

Fentible
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In the mid seventies, working in a motor factors that sold tools, I was persuaded to buy a 'Proto'  1/2" sq drive torque wrench. It cost me nearly a weeks wages then (£12.75) but it came with a lifetime guarantee.
I still use it to this day and always set it to the exact torque setting specified, on the basis that the quoted percentile error allows for differing manufacturing tolerances between wrenches. I have always used the step up tightening method on things like cylinder heads because that is what is advised by the manufacturer but in truth, very little else. I don't think I have ever stripped a thread or had one loosen whilst using this torque wrench, despite owning a fair few Hondas Very Happy . I've always taken care of it and released the tension after use.

I recently had occasion to buy a 1/4" square drive torque wrench made by Draper and as my Proto has never been tested I had a little trial (unscientific) over a range of torque settings. Using one then the other to tighten a nut and bolt then setting the other torque wrench to the same value to see if it tightened any further or if I could significantly reduce the indicated setting to achieve the same tightness.

From the lowest setting of 10Nm's up to about to about 17-18, the Draper suggested that the Proto was slightly over-tightening and vice-versa. But I got absolutely no difference from 20nm's up to 70Nm's (the Draper has a max setting of 80Nm's).

Now whether or not I am actually achieving the pre-set torque on either wrench is a matter of opinion but I agree with Eastern-phoenix in that for the price that the average shed mechanic is paying, they provide consistency rather than absolute accuracy.

    

48Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:42 am

Dai

Dai
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I did something similar recently. I bought a half-inch drive Norbar around thirty years ago and in the last couple of years I'd been getting a bit twitchy about its accuracy after all this time. There's no way can I afford to get it calibrated 'professionally' (it would be cheaper to buy another one), so I went the other route and did buy another Norbar but with a different range (starts higher, goes higher). I then went for the same tighten-and-cross-reference sequence as Fentible did and found that there was no difference over the entire overlap range. So they're either both accurate or both out by the same percentage.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
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1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
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49Back to top Go down   Correct use of a Torque Wrench Empty Re: Correct use of a Torque Wrench Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:11 pm

Kyle10

Kyle10
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Torque is cheap...

I picked up Harbor Freight's 1/2" torque wrench priced at $22.00 (USD). HF is a hit or miss proposition, being a made-in-China clearing house, yet I'm convinced it's a bargain. I've bench tested it side by side with far more expensive counterparts in the machining dept. where I work and it has - so far - proved accurate after over 2 years from purchase. Apparently its manufactured in Taiwan. 

Car Craft Magazine's review: "We frankly didn't expect this little unit to be very accurate. But testing proved otherwise."

Also from the article:
"...inaccuracy occurs because the internal spring loses its tension, allowing the wrench to break away (click) at a lower torque value. [T]his is a common problem for all types of clicker torque wrenches. The point here is that you should always return your clicker torque wrench to the base setting before storing the wrench. This simple step will maintain the wrench’s accuracy for years instead of mere months."


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1985 K100rt 0052183
1983 Honda VF750 007713 
    

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