The riders hand book seems to suggest that at each ignition pulse all 4 injectors squirt into the inlet manifold. Is that right, or has something been lost in translation? John

As with many automotive "non sequecial" injector systems, all the injectors dump a shot of fuel into the area around the intake valve where it waits there momentaily until the valve opens and it is swept into the cylendar with the intake air charge.l

Thanks for info. Have been involved with diesel engines for many years. This is my first petrol fuel injected vehicle and assumed it would work on a similar sequential diesel principle, obviously not.
What about the fuel injected Daimler Benz 601 engine in the Messerchmitt 109, was that sequential? John

a real issue could be if you have injectors that dont "spray" anymore john ...we have seen quite a few that squirt a streem of fluid ..... a cleanup with "carbi clean" and replacement of the filters and sealing rings has restored some of these to better working operation .

Daimler Benz used very diesel like high pressure unit injectors that were operated by rocker arms off the cam shaft.

k100virgin wrote:Thanks for info. Have been involved with diesel engines for many years. This is my first petrol fuel injected vehicle and assumed it would work on a similar sequential diesel principle, obviously not.
What about the fuel injected Daimler Benz 601 engine in the Messerchmitt 109, was that sequential? John

Good to see another diesel head on here The K is also my only petrol fuel machine, even my lawnmower is diesel!
The DB601 had a pump similar to a diesel engine so I presume it was a sequential system. How about the DB606, that' s one interesting engine

[quote="Hover K100"][quote="k100virgin"]Thanks for info. Have been involved with diesel engines for many years. This is my first petrol fuel injected vehicle and assumed it would work on a similar sequential diesel principle, obviously not.
What about the fuel injected Daimler Benz 601 engine in the Messerchmitt 109, was that sequential? John[/quote]

Good to see another diesel head on here The K is also my only petrol fuel machine, even my lawnmower is diesel!
The DB601 had a pump similar to a diesel engine so I presume it was a sequential system. How about the DB606, that' s one interesting engine [/quote]



The DB606 was apparetly the inspiration for the Audi/Volkswagen W12 engine. The aero engine family I find most interesting are the Junkers Jumo 205 series opposed piston diesels. Two pistons crown to crown in a single cylinder bore, with crankshafts top and bottom. Faribanks-Morse made huge examples of these to power railroad locomotives and submarines in the US. Junkers scaled the technology down to a size that would work as an aero engine.

If you like the Junkers engine, what about the Napier Deltic, To see and here one of these starting from rest pulling a number of loaded carriages, magic.
What a great Forum this is for diverse Knowledge. John

I don't know if this has any reativity at all but I believe..........

"If God had intended for aircraft to have horizontally opposed piston engines.........
then, Pratt & Whitney would have built them that way!
Here here

Oh yes, the Napier Deltic is a very interesting engine that powered British railroad locomotives and a lot of different naval craft from minesweepers to fast attack craft.

I believe the Russians still build a copy of the old Fairbanks Morse opposed piston two stroke engine for their copy of a 1940s Alco (American Locomotive Company, now long gone, bettered by GM-EMD and GE) locomotive.

[quote="ibjman"][img]https://2img.net/u/1611/29/48/93/smiles/78846.gif[/img]I don't know if this has any reativity at all but I believe..........

"If God had intended for aircraft to have horizontally opposed piston engines.........
then, Pratt & Whitney would have built them that way!
Here here[/quote]

That is much like saying: "Scarebus! If it ain't Boeing, we ain't going."

I can only imagine the difference in our performance in WWII against the Japanese if we had used diesel powered engines for our aircraft instead of gasoline. It would have spared our Navy a couple of tragic fuel fume explosions and big fuel fed fires and saved a couple of aircraft carriers over the course of the war. At the USAF museum there was a diesel powered radial engine based off a Wright Cyclone (I believe???) that pre-dated WWII so it could have happened if there had been some forethought.

I would personally love to see the original flying brick engine and gearbox architecture revived as a direct injection turbodiesel. I would buy one in a New York nanosecond.

charlie99 wrote:a real issue could be if you have injectors that dont "spray" anymore john ...we have seen quite a few that squirt a streem of fluid ..... a cleanup with "carbi clean" and replacement of the filters and sealing rings has restored some of these to better working operation .

Hi Charlie99, "replacement of the filters" Are there other filters in the fuel line besides the the one in the fuel tank and the strainer underneath the the fuel pump ? If there are I had better do something about mine as I have only done the fuel tank filters a few times since 1984 !!!

Lazyboy wrote:
Hi Charlie99, "replacement of the filters" Are there other filters in the fuel line besides the the one in the fuel tank and the strainer underneath the the fuel pump ?

Charlie is refering to the mesh screens on the ends of the injectors. These are replaceable when reconditioning the injectors because they clog after many years of use. The screens are pushed into the inlet of each injector. The O-rings seal the top and bottom of the injector and need replacing as well.

I think Charlie was refering to the filters that are built into the injectors themselves. You can get a kit containing all the parts needed for overhauling the injectors.

This is about all you can do to them the only other thing would be to have them flushed through which could remove any old fuel build up...

yep your right rob and tc .... (thanks ...i hadnt been watching everything going on ... sorry )

we were able to get kits for the replacement

which included the "pintel caps" the "screen filter" and 2 "o rings" to suit and didnt cost a lot of money $20 for 4 injectors from memory

some of you might remember our "service day " at albys and the "ic3000" which was an injector excersizer

to help flush the injectors with carbi clean and an injenious adaptor to allow presure feeding the input of the injectors direct from the presure pack ...after a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner to loosen it all up internally

i believe this process cleaned out some of the "varnish" buildup inside the injectors

"rj trucker" does a injector service ..whicj could be really good for those that dont have the equipment or timke and experience ,,,,,there are a few posts about this throughout the forum ...a good bloke too

THANKS ALL for the promt reply. I will see what is available in this part of the world and will report back.

I also have the parts for the do it yourselfers. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me. I am testing different ford color coded injectors to see which match the k bike injectors. If I can find the right flow it will cut the price for replacement injectors.

I have a document with a heap of info about bosch injectors, flow rates and impedence etc. if you PM your email I will send it in excell format.

Rjtrucker wrote:I also have the parts for the do it yourselfers. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me. I am testing different ford color coded injectors to see which match the k bike injectors. If I can find the right flow it will cut the price for replacement injectors.

also interested if you find a "multipoint " type injector with similar flow characteristics that is a common find these days rj ....just hoping for some success...wish-full thinking i know or maybe not

I am sure you would find one Charlie just a matter of perservering.

k100virgin wrote:If you like the Junkers engine, what about the Napier Deltic, To see and here one of these starting from rest pulling a number of loaded carriages, magic.
What a great Forum this is for diverse Knowledge. John

Are we going over to trainspotting now? I love those Deltics but my grandfather hated them for displacing the Flying Scotsman......and remember reading about those Junkers engines and having people say they didnt exist.

But if you want a big engine.....http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bigboy/

Its one impressive engine and 4012 is really worth seeing.

92KK.

No, never been a train spotter but mates were, and went with them as a lad just to to enjoy looking at those mechanical monsters, both steam and diesel. I live in a part of the UK where the ground is heavy clay and to hear large tractors ploughing and pulling hard is magic. Working for Perkins for 22 years also helps!! John

I have fond memories as a small child of walking over to the local tracks to watch the familiar 7 PM "High-baller" go streaming through our local village each evening......streaming thick black smoke and sounding a woeful whistle that would stop your heart (depending on the relative skill of the engineer in manipulating whistle steam valve lanyard!
As for the other power plants mentioned above, I can see I'm out classed here by those who have more years and experience.
I was happy, however to find note somewhere above about a Fairbanks-Morse opposed piston duel crankshaft diesel as I remember maintaining in my military years (naval emergency generator).......I always marveled in the way it could be brought to life in the first 1/4 turn of the crank(s) after having been un used for months.
I also had some experience with GM 8-278A Vee engines & Solar T-45 Gas turbines. All great fun for a wide eyed 17 year old Navy "greenhorn".
I understand that more modern day locomotives used a variant of the 8-278, but with twice as many cylinders.
GM 12 or 16-278A.
Still the biggest engine I've ever been associated with...... was a "triple steam reciprocating" that powered the USN Liberty ship I was on. (LP Steam 300 psi) (occasionally seen in some 1940's movies?)
My last Navy assignment was running throttles on 3000 psi HP steam turbines. Had a real feeling of "power & control" with those.
I could go on & on........

The biggest engine I have ever worked on was a straight 24 cyl Lombardini with a 600mm bore. the engineering shop had to repair a section of the crankshaft. It used to run all the time even when in port for a few days and idle at 15rpm and flat out at 96rpm.
The ship broke down about 900 miles from port and had to be rescued by one of the tugs and me and another fitter were sent out with the tug to asses the job and get the team back at base ready. It was quite an adventure for me then.

Ibjman, the highest steam pressure the US Navy used on a ship was 1200 psi, and those things were temperamental to the point of being ridiculous. 3000 psi would be something you see in shore power. Is that what you worked on?

No one builds two stroke locomotives in the US any more. It is all four stroke now. GE has the most powerful diesel locomotives today, 6200 horses driving an AC alternator powering six AC motors, one each per axle. I think they weigh something like 400,000 lbs. Standing by one you feel the power as much as hear it!

Last I saw the Russians were still building a diesel loco using a copy of the Fairbanks Morse opposed piston two stroke. As I understand it, the Russian Army acquired some Alco locos with these engines from Iran, left over by the US Army after WWII.

....and the corrections. I could be wrong in my memory it was 45 years ago.
It was a Guided Missal Frigate built in 1964 DLG-4.
I do remember it was called super heated steam ......running two giant steam turbines (one of which I throttled on watch)
I also remember in training multiple warnings about any possible pinhole leak in a steam pipe.....as it would not be visible at that temp, but it could literally cut your body in two if you ran by it.
USS England

[quote="ibjman"]....and the corrections. I could be wrong in my memory it was 45 years ago.
It was a Guided Missal Frigate built in 1964 DLG-4.
I do remember it was called super heated steam ......running two giant steam turbines (one of which I throttled on watch)
I also remember in training multiple warnings about any possible pinhole leak in a steam pipe.....as it would not be visible at that temp, but it could literally cut your body in two if you ran by it.
USS England[/quote]

There was no DLG-4. DL-4 was the USS Willis E. Lee, a Mitscher class destroyer leader, later redesignated as a frigate but still carrying the DL-4 pennant number. It was strictly gun armed, no guided missiles. It was commissioned in 1954 and decommissioned in 1972, just before the Navy redesignated frigates as cruisers and redesignated destroyer escorts as frigates to make US Navy ship designations match those of the rest of the world's navies (except the Soviets who had a whole different naming convention than anyone else)

USS England was originally built as DLG-22, later redesignated a guided missile frigate still DLG-22, and eventually redesignated again as a guided missile cruiser CG-22. England was a Leahy class ship and these had 1200 psi steam plants in all their temperamental glory. 1200 psi will very much slice a hand off, so we were told never look for leaks by waving a hand around the plumbing! Same thing with 1500 and 3000 psi hydraulic systems in the helicopters I flew around those ships. Leahys were pretty ships, balanced and graceful looking. England was commissioned in December 1963 and decommissioned in 1994. It sat in Suisin bay until being taken for scrapping in 2004. The US Navy has pretty much gotten out of the oil fired steam buisness. Gas turbines are much more reliable and less costly to operate. The only steam plants left are nuclear, on submarines and aircraft carriers.

It would not surprise me to see the name USS England turn up on an Arleigh Burke Flight III destroyer in the future. The Navy is re-using names of other Leahy and Belknap class cruisers on new construction Burkes.

You are 100% correct.
Jeeeeez.....my memory really has taken a dump.
England was indeed DLG-22
I was confused (as usual) with my 1st assignment which was RG-4 (or ARG-4)
Thanks for the update.
If you are ever in Los Angeles, you should look up the USS Lane Victory. One of my best friends worked on restoring that. (similar to my RG-4)

[quote="ibjman"]You are 100% correct.
Jeeeeez.....my memory really has taken a dump.
England was indeed DLG-22
I was confused (as usual) with my 1st assignment which was RG-4 (or ARG-4)
Thanks for the update.
If you are ever in Los Angeles, you should look up the USS Lane Victory. One of my best friends worked on restoring that. (similar to my RG-4)[/quote]

I need to get down there to see the Iowa. Heck, before I joined the Navy I drove big yellow busses for LA Unified School District. That's how I paid for college. I remember doing a harbor tour and and after the stop at the Cabrillo Museum, I made a little detour from the canned route and took the kids up the Gerald Desmond Bridge to show them the Missouri in the big graving dock of the now gone Long Beach Navy Yard. Missouri was being fitted out with cruise missiles and Harpoons for her final tour of duty. Later on as a CH-46 pilot I got to see her sister the New Jersey do her business with her main battery before landing on her to deliver something or the other. This was during a RIMPAC exercise. They gave us box lunches and inside were patches for our flight jackets. It is one of those memories I will always cherish. I am glad to see all of them on public display. San Francisco was supposed to get Iowa but they got snooty about it being to militaristic and all. Their loss. I think LA really scored and she ought to get enough tourists to keep the old girl maintained.

Have you visited the Midway down in San Diego yet? That ship is very well presented to the public. Well worth the $20 to see her. You step aboard and you are hit with that familiar smell that all combat ships have. Then you climb a ladder in the superstructure and realize you ain't the kid that used to run up and down those things during GQ drills. Holy crap, did I used to climb those all day every day? Ugh.