I just removed the fairing and was able to take a better picture of the upper mounting on the EML. It may give others an idea.





What did you said? "Over engineered!" YES!

CF

Thanks guys.

I am thinking I like this setup for linking the chair to subframe.


I have also found THESE adjustable links that come in whole variety of length and sizes.

that is a work of art...grease nippled rose joints...torque rods adjustable alloy ( lh and rh threaded)....looks good enough to be aviation quality.

Very nice indeed.
I shall be leaving the list soon and hiding my paltry effort away from any kind of scrutiny.

that does look good alby .

aww sean ...thats not good enough a reason ...yours works in so many ways ... cheers !

As Klompy said, this looks like aviation quality.
I believe that if the junction points between the bike and the chair are well designed, the structure doesn't have to be massive.

In one of my previous experiments (long time ago), I had an original suzuki frame braking in 1/2. The structure of the links was big, but the force was too concentrated into one single point of the bike frame.

CF

I need to fit a park brake to my chair for QLD DOT. This is what i have. I am learning as I go along with. Am I correct i thinking the two holes on this bracket are for a brake caliper/drum setup. The hub just looks like it is not meant to be there. 13 inch rims. this is the rear swing arm from a mini ive been told. Any suggestion would be helpful.

It might be useful for you to ask the RTA to define what a park brake is. I know that in NSW it can be as simple ( literally) as a stick between the spokes of your sidecar wheel. I have seen a guy use a cable tie to compress his front brake lever when the bike is parked. Another method is to use a clamp to activate your rear brake whilst stationary. The brake does not have to be on the sidecar itself, as it will be considered to be a combination.

All this for the purposes of getting through rego...elaborate systems could then be explored at your leisure.

For the last 2 weeks, I am thinking of installing a parking brake too, but haven't found a solution yet.
I will install the brake on the side car (it was never installed).
I may install a second mechanical caliper on the rear bike wheel and on the chair's wheel.

something like this


or something like this. (I have a least 5 spare calipers that I could modify)




These kind of devices are very common on snowmobiles or kartings.

For you, it may be a simpler solution:
The sidecar hub seems to be big enough to be machined cylindrical near the frame.You fabricate a shoe that would squeeze around this part of the hub.

A clamping device like this could be installed:


The other solution would be what is found on very old pieces of machinery. Machine the hub and install a strap band going around it.



You could certainly have a lever activating the system to be extended between the bike and the chair

CF

The outfit should be parked with out assistance of the bikes hydraulic system( should it fail), a mechanical brake is required.
some of the older bikes with drum brakes on the rear can be altered at the foot control to be used as a park brake
My DJP chassis came with a drum brake installed ,with a hand lever /cable.
as far as I know it is a Morris mini set up, with a 10 inch minilite alloy wheel. Works well and is a simple fitup.
Took some pics the other day , but turned out crap !!!!( oops blurrry) Need more attention with the spellchecker...

[quote="Albyalbatross1"]A while back I had a look at the links for sideccars and was astounded by what i found. Gotta have me one of these i thought..looks like lots a fun. So I set about getting in touch with people who had built a subframe to bolt on to our K100. No one other than saxon was of any real use. I also had a lucky find on the weekend and now I dont have to build my own hack. So pleased I joined this forum..
This is what I scored for not a lot of dollars..Wow some bargain, was the sidecar included as well?????????

Brake issue is sorted. I spoke to my Safety Cert inspector and he says i only need to be able to engage the park brake on the chair and leave it like that when parked.. It does not have to engage both bike and chair. Found the Brake backs and drums new here in aus for $150 complete!!

On a sad note our local engineering shop lost their last fitter/turner on friday to the Gas Field Rush!!! So this means there is no longer a small firm who will take on local jobs. The other big ones here only do mine work. Going to have to go to Toowoomba to get Linkages made for attaching teh Chair.

i a real shame when that happens but the money is only there for a short time and you cant blame the bloke for trying to make ends meet

good luck in the big smoke

Hey Alby if you can get me some drawings or dimensions i can get my mate to make them at his engineering shop, its where i used to work. He is a bike nut also and likes to find a way round these sorts of problems.

Just a thought, might save you some hard earned.

Thanks Bert 2.0 I have to get a few more parts together and some expert welding done before then. I need this done to get the dimensions for the drawings of linkages.

Aha I see where your coming from, was thinking of a trip up on the 1st of Dec.

Let me know if that is suitable for you, I would head off nice and early so I could get to yours at about 8.30ish. I normally get up at 4.30 to start work on Saturday's anyway.

Suits fine. Ill be in touch before then.

Ok will pencil it in. Let me know what I need to bring. If there is anything I can get for you down here, I can bring up with me.

How about this for an option?.....

Can you feel that little tingle at the back of your neck, John?
That's the monkey.....you're inching toward the dark side!!!!!!
Mwahahahahaha.

Ok dumd question time. But how the hell does that one that klompy put up a pic of work? Or is it a joke photo. As i said dumd question time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tSsdfw2RZ0&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx3igiZ47ak

I've never ridden one....so no idea what they're like.

Some great pics and views in Alby's thread and CFs K100/EML thread.Some of which I would like to follow through with.thanks guys.

some quick pics of the DJP set up.
these are an older Aussie made sidecar, used mainly in the 70's and 80's. they operated with a torsion suspension.
/






The front wheel stand was a bit iffy, provided some anxious moments. The bike was not firm in the chocks.
Cheers Ed.

because the only reason why i still drive solo is the money...
some of you might know "Peter Sauer" Sauer sidecar ?
http://www.sauer-sidecar.de/

in 1990 I worked there for about 1 1/2 year.
was very usefull and salutary

attached a few pics fron various K subframe constructions for insperation.
mostly professional - some strange but official an legal

I´d be interrested about the technical situation in US, UK and Downunder
can you just do what you want, mount it and that´s it ?
no offical technical acceptance test ?

most of the before shown constuction would never get through the german TÜV
esp. the use of the org. wheels.


lot´s of ways lead to Rome

link to the Album

Olaf, Here in Queensland if you want to have a passenger side car it has to registerd as such and state how many people can be carried. It must have a park brake fitted and that only has to work on the chair wheel. You do not have to get a "engineering certification" for the side car or the SUBFRAME. It is soley up to the inspectors discretion. The sidecar cannot be welded it must be bolted to the bike. It also needs tail light, clearence light brake and indicators.

If you want a cargo pod/camping side car you can do whatever you want as long as it has the running lights and and park brake. You do not need to have it registered as a side car.

The only thing you need engineering cert for is if you fit LEADING LINK FORKS.
Here is an Aussie Camping Hack. Built by a Guy called Alex.

zonenfeile,

UK has few restrictions on sidecar fitting, you can do more or less what you want. Our annual MOT test will fail an outfit that's obviously unsafe and they are supposed to check the 'toe-in', but standard wheels and swing arm are considered OK. My standard swing arm hasn't suffered in 24 years. Being a small minority group, it seems that sidecaring doesn't warrant a lot of official interference (thank goodness).

Just reading Alby's post, our bikes are just registered as a solo with no mention of a sidecar. Sidecars are considered as an accessory.....weird!!!

Paul.

sidecar paul wrote:

Just reading Alby's post, our bikes are just registered as a solo with no mention of a sidecar. Sidecars are considered as an accessory.....weird!!!

Paul.

Same for me.
Bike is registered as a solo one (Even if you cannot remove the sidecar to ride solo)
I told the insurance that I have a sidecar but nowhere they mention it on the papers.
I think they consider it as an accessory like a trailer.

CF

strange - you´re lucky - or not - depends

but I´ve got to coment the pics shown as " example"

accorning to the power of the new bikes :
a subframe / sidecarframe / brakesystem like the above shown is only for bikes up to 30 PS / 100 Km/H and are based on constructions of the 50´th.
the shown sidecarframe is an addition of junk and belongs to the scrapyard
when I see the sidecar bowden cable drum brakes ... I would not even
mount that on a 50ccm bike - even the MZ ETZ 250 had much better
(hydr.) brakes.
and the funny shock absorber, never seen that before - does it belong to a wheel barrow ?

Adding a sidecar in general is a deep intervention to the complete chassis
All components have to stand the stress of driving max speed (170 - 180 KmH) incl 150% max loading

Builing a K with sidecar with standard frontfork and standard solo wheels is a low compromise with poor vehicle handling
the construction ist not able to assimilate the steering and braking thrust and the needed change of the overrun is ignored

Bert´s EML system is a well known and established EML construction of the 80´th and no new system should go below that standard (sp. the sidecar frame)
the frontfork system is OK -
- the shown subframe is an early version from EML - later ones have a bolted system up to the steering head adaption
other frame systems (EZS) do not have the doubble stearing head system anymore .
- 2 piston brake calliper is adiquate - but not state of the art - changing to 15mm R100R pump and 4-piston callipers will make a 2 finger brake

once again - I don´t want to engage someone - my opinion might be abundantly clear but if something is rubbish it hast to be named
you might do what you want but we´re are part of the traffic and are responsible for our and others safty.

pls think about that

I don't know much about sidecars other than hanging off of one as a youngster at the speedway but I do have confidence in the system that assures only roadworthy vehicles are initially registered in Australia...and I am also impressed with the ingenuity of many motorcyclists pushing the boundaries of engineering and imagination and am impressed with having a go.

I am sure that positive reinforcement is far healthier than denegrating the attempts to have a go, no matter how that progresses..I applaud the brave and clever and trust in engineers to pronounce the compliance with standards....prior to their mixing it with the traffic.

How about those that know, continue to share with those that do not.....like we do here its great, its constructive and does not put people off sharing there attempts.

Just my 2 bobs worth guys I love to see what you are up to keep it coming...it can only improve.

Well its been a bit WARM here in Queensland of late..I am thinking of those in Tasmainia however..Too hot to be working on anything.. I have been busy getting parts together while waiting for a cooler break in the weather. I have almost gathered all the parts needed. Just waiting on the mini trailing arm.

thanks to Bert 2.0 for his help with fabrication of parts so far. and some to come. Hope he likes scotch/Bourbon ..


here is the bracket bert made for clamping to the frame below the seat..This will allow two more tie rods to the chair.

Well said Klompy!

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Great work there Alby.

No Worries Alby, good to see its all coming together in the parts collection department.

I have to agree about the weather, its been 35 deg C here for about 5 days with 40 to 60 % humidity and I'm only about 750m to the ocean. Jules keeps mumbling about A/con and how cool Nic is sitting in her A/C....

Ahhhh about the Bourbon thing, nice offer but I've been on the wagon for some time now. But thanks for the offer. No need as its just fun to help out.

Cant wait to see more progress once the heat dies down a bit.

forward research is showing through, great effort so far guys, keep up the good work.
Be sure to keep up your fluids on those hot days .

"the shown sidecarframe is an addition of junk and belongs to the scrapyard
when I see the sidecar bowden cable drum brakes ... I would not even
mount that on a 50ccm bike - even the MZ ETZ 250 had much better
(hydr.) brakes.
and the funny shock absorber, never seen that before - does it belong to a wheel barrow ?"
Zonenfiele, I have chosen to purchase and install this sidecar , as it is a classic, and deserves to be given the respect of new life.
braking requirements in Oz are you only need sufficient to hold the outfit whilst stationary,
I too am not keen on the shock mounting, these models were later built wilt with torsion suspension, which I will be seeking out.
thanks for the feedback.

Hey Alby, nice clamps!
Are you going for strength or rigidity with the double mounting points? Also, will there be adjustment in the arm that will go into that slotted piece?

Sean.

looking good alby

hey i got a spare wheel (on loan from seanii ) down here ...ill try and get up if the weather cools off a little

the heat has been doing my head in (36 + in my little shack )...and unable to complete the projects

We had 40.6 here yesterday the hottest ever. The night before we smelled smoke just as a storm was passing but I haven't found out where it came from.

Is the electric winch replacing a reverse gear on the bike?

I can mail you a package of Arctic air to cool you down. You only have to pay for the shipping.

Crazy Frog...The winch is for making it look cool-lish..and getting myself out of any stick spots i might find on our Queensalnd Outback tour. Now it will be to get out of the POT HOLES after the massive rains we have had.


Now a question for our aussie friends.. Does anyone happen to know where there would be a 68-79 vw beetle? I am after the rims. 15 inch x 4 1/2. Just perfect for the rear wheel. This is what Saxon has on his outfit.

cool alby you found the size huh ?

i have a friend at work with a bug ...i think he has some spares as well ......ill ask when he gets back from perth

I will look around...but I do have a number of Hyundai 4 stud alloy wheels with very good rubber in 15 inch if you want them...196-65-15..

Albyalbatross1 wrote:Crazy Frog...The winch is for making it look cool-lish..and getting myself out of any stick spots i might find on our Queensalnd Outback tour. Now it will be to get out of the POT HOLES after the massive rains we have had.


Now a question for our aussie friends.. Does anyone happen to know where there would be a 68-79 vw beetle? I am after the rims. 15 inch x 4 1/2. Just perfect for the rear wheel. This is what Saxon has on his outfit.

Have you checked the PCD of that wheel if it is VW it should be the same as 5in Ford but it looked bigger to me. I thought it may have been a Mazda from late 60s

Hey Alby, there must be a couple of veedubs at the wreckers where you are?

They never made it to Kingaroy they couldn't get up the Blackbutt range.

My mechanic is a VW specialist. Just check if it is a vw and if so he would have or could find one for you.

I am slowly working on having the rig ready for the spring. I will not do as much as anticipated, but it will be ready.

The tires are the 15" from the old VW (15 r125, 15 r135 and 15r145).
It becomes increasingly difficult to find them and I finally got 4 of them (2x 135 and 2x 145) for almost $600. I am switching the 125 on the chair for a 135. At least, I have to keep only 2 sizes in stock (135 for the chair and the front and 145 for the rear).
My advise would be to try a 16" wheel. It seems that more tires are available. The big question is "how wide can you go on the back tire"?
More and more small modern cars (like the smart car) are using 16"

Nice to see the progress, Crazy Frog.

But I think Smart cars use 15" wheels, my front is a 145/65 x 15 Smart car tyre.

Paul.

sidecar paul wrote:Nice to see the progress, Crazy Frog.

But I think Smart cars use 15" wheels, my front is a 145/65 x 15 Smart car tyre.

Paul.

This is the perfect size for the rig, but when I inquired about tires, I went to every place in Halifax (not a small city) and nobody could get me 15" narrow tires.
Even on Fleebay, people were advertising this size in stock, but when placing an order, they replied that you would have to wait for mid spring.
Anyways, I got my tires + (a set of spares) and I should be good for at least a season.
I am anxious to see how long they will last.
My next step is to find a master cylinder for the sidecar and have 2 brake pedals on the bike.
To be continued.....

Blakey...Rick was right..no VW at our local wrekors just ford and holden..couple subaru.. did I mention 20 acres + of this stuff.

Stan..if you could ask that would be great thanks.
Charlie..Please ask you work mate for me?

I have been talking with Chris from Boxer metal and he seems to think 6 inch is way too much offset. he is also fairly priced on making up hub adaptors as well. all he needs is the offset and PCD. your choice in alloy, steel or anodized. It was his suggestion of the VW rim. as he suggested i should find a rim that is easily replaced out here.

Bert..Do you have any idea on what your outfit weighs?

Now thanks to Charlie for helping me with picking up the Tug for this outfit. It is now in the HesMadLab waiting for some new fittings..Oil resistant clutch, big end seal, rebuild gearbox. that way once the chair is on It can stay there for a long while.

Albyalbatross1 wrote:
Bert..Do you have any idea on what your outfit weighs?

123Kg or 270lbs dry.
Add another 45kg for the auxiliary gas tank (when full) + the car battery and you get close to 170kg (or 375lbs).
No wonder that the subframe has been overbuilt.

Bert

Alby, my outfit is 420Kg all up and running.

Paul.