A while back I had a look at the links for sideccars and was astounded by what i found. Gotta have me one of these i thought..looks like lots a fun. So I set about getting in touch with people who had built a subframe to bolt on to our K100. No one other than saxon was of any real use. I also had a lucky find on the weekend and now I dont have to build my own hack. So pleased I joined this forum..
This is what I scored for not a lot of dollars..


So reverse engineer from pictures was the way to go. I have started to draw this up in Google sketch up and post the final drwaings here when finished. This is the frame I am copying.

here is where I am at
I needed to find all the angles from the front of the engine..So simple after sitting looking at it for a day or two..Just follow the crash bars. I did this with a bit of alloy filler rod. Perfect!

Now I start on the construction.
using the crash bar mounts to bolt the rails to. There is one bolt hole that sits higher than the others so you can oly use three.

Where the centre stand bolts on is where the rear of the subframe bolts on. Cut out for oil drain and Rick g was right...I will use a plate of alloy in there.


Here is a few pics of it so far.

These are really useful pics.

Impressive work Alby. I like your idea of following the engine bars. Watching with interest!

88

What did Nicole have to say about using the lunch box for nuts and bolts?
Some constructive advice I would have bent the RHS and not cut and weld. Now I hear them saying how do you bend that stuff, well its quite easy I will explain on the weekend Alby.

You don't waist any time Alby.

I posted the link to this type of subframe this morning and you already have it 1/2 built.
I guess you are cheating and saw the site before.

Try a sidecar once, and you will be hooked.
Is hooked appropriate for a chair?

Good luck with your project (I don't doubt that next week end it will be on the road).

good luck

Bert

Interesting stuff, that frame under the engine is similar to whats used on my craft to support the engine.

Rick G wrote:What did Nicole have to say about using the lunch box for nuts and bolts?
Some constructive advice I would have bent the RHS and not cut and weld. Now I hear them saying how do you bend that stuff, well its quite easy I will explain on the weekend Alby.

Nicole stood there just like Andy Capps mrs...one foot tapping and the arms folded :roll:O pen to ideas...This is only a get it right to fit frame. Then build the actual subframe. Not going to use the plate for this as it is bloody hard to get those holes to line up from the centre stand. I will just clamp it to in place for now to take measurements.

Alby, the way I see it you will have it finished by the weekend.....no problems.

Some of you asked for pics next to K Bike.. She is from outside of bike to outside of car 1495mm and the car is 1900mm long.

you have been busy looking forward to catching up with you good score with the the chair

Just a word of advice.....take the concrete block out from underneath it.....and connect the chair to the bike.

"Just a word of advice.....take the concrete block out from underneath it.....and connect the chair to the bike."

Well spotted Ainsjac...it's the little things like this that's noticed by other members of this forum, that make this a great site!

There ya are Alby a bit of red string to hold it together

Yep, that'll work...

Albyalbatross1 wrote:Some of you asked for pics next to K Bike.. She is from outside of bike to outside of car 1495mm and the car is 1900mm long.

It will be an awesome combination.
it seems to be huge, but here is how it compares to the EML.
The EML/K100 is 1450mm(73") wide by 2465mm(97") long (from bike front wheel to back of the chair).

You should paint the chair's windshield to match the bike's one.

CF

Alby should be grateful with all of us helping.

she looks nice and snug, Alby, you seem to be on the same track as myself with the crashbar look.
I posted the same frame pic in "aka,how its done in the bush", not sure who to credit for the pic, methinks it came from Advrider.


a pic of the top rear strut mount position.
I might try a piece of perpex when aligning the centrestand bolts.
good luck with the project , keep us posted.
Looking forward to seeing the the finished job.

ainsjac wrote:Alby should be grateful with all of us helping.

This will work better. (They even have RED ones)

Inoticed you flipped the engine , you haven't been taking too much of a lead from Sean, at least you removed it from the bike first.

blakey wrote:"Just a word of advice.....take the concrete block out from underneath it.....and connect the chair to the bike."

Well spotted Ainsjac...it's the little things like this that's noticed by other members of this forum, that make this a great site!

i recon alby could cut about 150 mm out of the height of that "sidey " and still be comfortable for nick ...might shed a few killos in the process .

just a thought, not a critisism

Just thinking out loud here. What are the rules on building a sidecar in qld? Do you have to buy a name brand one or can you build one?
Hyperthetically of course.

Bahahahahaahaahahaha!!!

caferacer62 wrote:Just thinking out loud here. What are the rules on building a sidecar in qld? Do you have to buy a name brand one or can you build one?
Hyperthetically of course.

I would say most likely you would have to get an engineer to approve it. There just aint anything like getting someone without any practical experience to tell you if its ok.

Here is the link to the original thread in advrider.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539968
Cheers,

Thanks deewhy i will read thru that soon as i get a bit more time on the computer(using phone at the mo).
Hey rick we were dicussing engineers at work today. General consensus seems to be unanimous in that they should do minimum 12mths on the tools. So many have said to me that they had designed such and such its up to you to make it work.
Pffft dont think so. I noticed from quick look at advrider that post is based in south oz.

The only thing I could find with regard to the sidecar issue was this which came from the Cossack owners website.

Well thought i might ask queensland dept of transport ,what the regs where for regestering sidecars was and i got the following answer
placement of sidecar
a sidecar must be fitted to left hand side of motorcycle
the only exception to this is a genuine historic motorcycle older than 30 years ,originally have been built for rhs and with period rhs chair
brakes
motorbike manufactured on or after 1 march 1976 must have mechanical parking brake
lights
after 1/10/1991 must have reverse lights if reverse gear is fitted
must have sidelight located within 150mm of the left hand extremity of the sidecar

road clearance
must be greater than 100mm
side car connection
must be bolted
appproval from QT is required for welding of frame and fitting leading link forks

compliance plate/modification plate NOT required

ctp class
the ctp class may require changing


now that all seemed fin and then i aske dthe nice lady what if my sidecar has no seat and is just for cargo
so she rang head office and they said
and i quote he can do whatever he fukin likes with that sidecar and doest have to notify QT unless he has a seat in it
so my cargo sidecar requires no rego changes nooo fees no nuthin
just as long as its got a liitle light its sweet

hurrah for qld rego rules
so no extra fees no paperwork just have fun

To get anything else you will probably have to go to a QLD transport joint and pick their brains. (Yes a difficult thing to do to some of those counter jockies)

Intetesting Rick. A while back when i was building rollcages and such like in the auto performance industry I had to clarify some regulations with the DOT. A mechanical engineer that we used toldme to ring the dept and ask to speak to the inspection engineers. Did that a couple of times with really good results. Maybe i just got lucky, but i can imagine some of the not so bright questions they get.
Might try that course of action again.
Damn Alby started the grey matter boiling again.

Saxon7 wrote:

Bahahahahaahaahahaha!!!

your an evil man seanii ....giggles

hey bert, i think you read my mind with those red cable ties .....what a classic !....

So Alby how goes the sidecar thingo. Hope your making progress still, give me a yell when you need some welding done.

caferacer62 wrote:So Alby how goes the sidecar thingo. Hope your making progress still, give me a yell when you need some welding done.

I will give you a yell Bert!!!
Risk G is correct.. The subframe and car DO NOT have to be built by a tradesman or certified it is up to the inspector judgement.. I went back to the QLD transport and they said I only need to have a safety certificate and it is registered as a side car with the number of seats allocated for the chair. So I will try to get this togeather sooner than later and safety by our local country mechanic.who is a mini fan so he can help with park brake.. then paint and finish.

Col and Saxon.. Here is the link for Leading Links a bit under LBS1200 plus postage.

I fitted the sub frame to spares bike yesterday for a fit.


This is the side of the sump that oly one bolt hole will line up.

So that's about 2K AUD with postage?

Yeah! Still cheaper than Eagle Trike. Still got to get tin touch with some state siders yet. Also need to learn about the mini handbrake system. I do not need the leading links for rego. am going to focus on adaptor plate and subframe mount for now.

I couldn't do it, but I still think they could or ought to be made a hell of a lot cheaper than that by someone with the know-how. There must be people on this list who could do it? Would be a matter of putting some enquiring minds and clever grey matter together? My mate Ian McPhee said he'd build me one if I got some shocks and supplied him with the front wheel I have here for the job. Sadly, he's in Zambia for the next 2 years.

What have you decided in regards to a front upper mount to go near the steering head?

Yes I agree. Now speaking of industrial espionage..You have a message on FB

I am not sure yet on what I am going to do. Saturday is a sit look and think day..

Here is what I have drawn up so far. Please EVERYONE.... Pull it apart..suggestions.
Hub Adaptor Plan

Saxon7 wrote:

What have you decided in regards to a front upper mount to go near the steering head?

I don't think you need one Alby. My Wasp subframe front top fixing is at the front engine bolt. Been OK for the past 24 years.



Paul.

Interesting. I have been of the opinion that something up forward and high is necessary. Do you not get any flex in direction changes or right handers? ( Sidecar being on the left which is right)
Perhaps the front piece you have at the engine mounts counters this at that juncture?
I have a thing on mine where in directional changes in say, roundabouts where you go left, right under throttle and then back to left, still under throttle, the bike feels like there is flex and the bike itself leans further left into the right hand part of the exercise. Any thoughts on this? Maybe I need something in that area as a kind of damper...or to add rigidity?
Schoorn.

No Sean I don't get any flexy feel as you say. Could it be your tele forks flexing?

Paul.

It feels like flex between the bike and chair.
Anyway....it's a work in progress, as said.

Just checking the RTA website (as I do) and noticed this.
Looks like you have to keep the chair Saxon7.
Keep Red Dog off your lap when in a school zone.

Carrying animals on a motor bike
Animals are not permitted to be carried on a motor bike between a rider and the handlebars, or in any other position that would interfere with the rider’s ability to control the motor bike.
Penalty: 3 demerit points (4 in a school zone) and $397 ($496 in a school zone)

That law came in sometime in the last week or so.
Wonder what Bundy is going to do?

I am going to sit and have a look and think about the mounts for the chair.
Also thinking hydraulik park brake.
Paul what is the mount just below your seat?

If you want to look at the plans for my adaptor in full 3D you will need SKETCHUP it is free and easy to use. You will be able to roll the image 360 deg look over and under it. HERE is the plan in 3D. just click on the download.

[quote="Albyalbatross1"]I am going to sit and have a look and think about the mounts for the chair.
Also thinking hydraulik park brake.
Paul what is the mount just below your seat?
/quote]

Some sort of neck oil may be required for the sitting and looking.

The mount beneath the seat attaches to a frame rail. The more mounting points, the better. Mine has 4. 3 isn't enough I don't think.

Sawn.

I agree. With the neck oil of course! I would like six.(neck oils or mounts...) I can see an easy two and will have to put new mounts on the chair. Also want to keep its width down. 1400mm.
I found this idea for mounting to the frame. It seems easy enough to make. Guess i will have to draw one up in sketchup

Looks good!
A little more attractive than old HQ Holden tie rod end bits:-)

Good job so far Alby, you're much further ahead in your project than I am , Time management needs attention I think....
I'm keeping the family happy with house reno's. So all I can do at the moment is watch other members progress.
Instead of disturbing the fairing, would you not be able to make a mount on the modified crash bar frame.
Looking at the location of the eye ball mount , you're not far from the crash bar?
SP's appear to be further out from the main frame.

vlsuzuki I am going to make this bike a naked. The bracket is one i found online.its on the wrong side anyways I am going to draw it up and make some. It should make it easier to mount extra points on the existing frame. as in under the seat/side covers.


Time management is a thing of mystery to me..Just lucky to have an early start /finish job.I am still only working out the think about parts. I want to be able to have it all together for when I get the extra K bike. So I am building it on a donor bike for now.

the eye section of the bolt is swivel bearing oriented isn't it, would make for a much more flexible clamping.
I have seen similar, but yours may have the advantage

From what I have been told , any new regos require a bolt on application, ball mounts , such as those found on the Steib sidecars are not acceptable.
I purchased a spare set of DJP mounts this year on ebay, they have the ball and screw fittings.Not sure if I'll be using them.

I know the detriment of transport go all funny when they see spherical bushes here in qld. But my experience has been with suspension components. You could possibly use the same mounting clamp but modified to use a nolathane shock bush off of a 4wd or truck shock. Although if we in qld only need a safety cert i guess its up to your friendly mechanic type person. Funny how sperical bushes are the norm in competition vehicles, and last the distance.
I think thats where i make my mistakes, I tend to dive in head first and not enough of the planning phase. Looking good though Alby.

Alby, here's a picture of my 4 mounting points from when I built the outfit.



It's a photograph of a glossy print so it's not very sharp. The top rear fitting is a clamp on the frame tube.



The tube of the subframe that provides the front top fitting is stepped inside to hold the allen bolt to the engine mount, and threaded to take the eye bolt.

All food for thought.....during more neck lube.

Paul.

I just removed the fairing and was able to take a better picture of the upper mounting on the EML. It may give others an idea.





What did you said? "Over engineered!" YES!

CF