Annnddd... considering I'm supposed to know what I'm doing with motorcycle electrics, you can all laugh.

That includes you, Stu.

Search-fu has failed me because I could have sworn I've seen this in here somewhere.

Symptoms:

- fuel pump does not run-on when the starter is pressed. It stops immediately the button is released
- LED test on the fuel injectors: LED flashes once when the starter is pressed and once when it is released. No flash while engine cranky-wa...
- of course, no spark at the plugs

What's been checked:

- been through Bert's troubleshooting and nothing turned up bad. Couldn't do the engine running tests of course
- the wiring loom but that doesn't rule it out because I built it (this is no.5 K100 loom)
- ICU has been swapped
- FICU has been swapped
- both cross-tested okay on LFB
- HES have been swapped out for three different ones, which doesn't mean I haven't buggered them all because I haven't cross-checked by putting one on LFB. I know: I should but...
- engine turns over fine
- fuel pump runs while the button is held down
- everything that is not part of the ignition subloom works okay.

What I'm about to do:

- fit one of the HES plates to LFB to make sure I haven't blown them
- junk the ignition subloom and make another one
- fill in the hole where I kept banging my head against the workbench
- buy up all the stocks of painkillers in the village.

This is the RT, not the RS, for all the difference that should make.

Had that issue on my RT Dai......

The signal is coming from start button ok as you have correctly identified.
Missing the signal from the HES.

No spark AND no fuel pump signal from HES interrupted as in a faulty HES/cable/plug to ICU or fault in ICU. If it occurs later you do get spark and no fuel pump?.

My tuppence....

But, a friends K75 that seemed to have a similar issue his FICU plug under the seat had not been properly connected. I say seemed because no one checked to see if it had a spark simply because checking the FICU plug is quicker and he had been at the battery making it a prime suspect .

These issues can drive you crazy.

Looks like I'm going to have to swap in a spare HES plate to LFB (and the two ICUs while I'm at it). If the HES is shot, does that mean I go down in K history as the idiot who managed to blow three HES plates in quick succession? Have no idea how I would have done it though.

If the swap does work then it has to be a fault in my wiring. That would actually be a relief.

The connector from the HES.......goes into one in the bike loom....check the bike loom one very very carefully. I had an issue in that and effect is the same...loss of HES signal.

I'm with Olaf. I think I've reproduced your symptoms by unplugging the hall sensors plug, so hopefully a bad connection somewhere there.

Dai, It's not like you to let this no sparky bit get you, you being a spark guru on this forum. I can't remember you having posts about any issue. Cheers Tom

Indeed, time to check the subloom....

(Never knew we had headbangers as members   )

Tom: knowing when you're beat is usually a good start to fixing a problem.

I wuz beat

I'm going with a frame ground connection fault because I'm convinced of Dai's wiring competence, and he's visited Florida. 

Laitch wrote:I'm going with a frame ground connection fault because I'm convinced of Dai's wiring INcompetence, and he's visited Florida. 

Weelll... somehow I've managed to destroy two sets of HES. I did find a wiring fault - I'd wired up the temperature switching unit plug arse-about-face ie. pin A2 to A3 and pin E to pin 9 etc.. Had to dismantle the RS to find that one - the more I looked at the diagram on the TSU cover, the more confused I got. Why in hell's name did BMW put all the pin numbers next to the pins on every unit in the relay box except the TSU? 

Expensive lesson.

Probably going to get more expensive because I have another HES on the bench that I think I may have also destroyed for the same reason. Then I need to go to Motorworks for a replacement.

Expensive = c. £500 in total.

Bollox.

Dai wrote:

Laitch wrote:I'm going with a frame ground connection fault because I'm convinced of Dai's wiring INcompetence, and he's visited Florida. 

I did find a wiring fault . . .

Further proof of competence!

Yup. 3-0 to the HES.

















Dammit.

Odd. Very odd. One fails the bench test but runs the bike; another passes the bench test and won't spark.

So I've ordered five CYHME56C HE sensors from Sonnecy in Germany. Why five? 'Coz it was only €4 more than ordering four...

Dai wrote:Annnddd... considering I'm supposed to know what I'm doing with motorcycle electrics, you can all laugh.

That includes you, Stu.

I wouldn’t laugh mate. The FI/IGN components are the only thing I don’t love about the K. 
I try to keep everything well maintained (although not pretty) but feel completely at the mercy of these aging electronics. If I could find all new components I would spend the money and worry less on the road. I’m too old to sit around waiting for recovery wagons or to worry about having too.
TBH, to the extent that I’m considering retiring the beast in favour of something newer. Currently looking at a Hyabusa outfit that has caught my eye vs considering buying the BSK EMS and modernising the whole setup.
Good luck with the sparky bits and hopefully see you in Feb when we renew our lives. (and I will have got there worry free or very very quickly  )

Oh ffs!!! (sorry guys). I've just seen the price of a s/h HES plate on BSK. Half the cost of anywhere else    Same for the LT adjustable windscreen - I was preening myself for having got two for around £165 (I think it was - there was also a vgc fairing upper thrown in with that lot). Not so cocky now - could have got two from BSK for just about £100.

I took a look at the EMS out of interest; it costs more than LFB is worth. It has given me an idea though. I was looking at making my own shielded HES leads last night (why? Because  ) as I've never been too happy with the angle of the OEM lead exiting the HES housing. I would have hit the same problem, but I'm not averse to taking a rasp to the outside of the HES housing to run the lead out straight. The downside of that is accidently catching it on the rare occasion that I do wash LFB.

I've shot the idea of making my own HES cables. Just found some 4-core 16/0.2 (7.2mm dia) on ebay for £3.85/metre.

Dai wrote:
I took a look at the EMS out of interest; it costs more than LFB is worth.

I’ve looked a lot at the BSK stuff, but hadn’t even realised they sold used bits the community might be interested in, sorry all. You’re right about the relative values on the EMS vs our bikes. But the issue for me is, not trusting the electronics takes the shine off my longer trips (perhaps irrationally). The economic argument is upgrade a bike I love to modern specs vs buying a modern bike.
Who knows? I just dont want to spend a night in the snow half way to Capel Curig.

tinyspuds wrote:I just dont want to spend a night in the snow half way to Capel Curig.

I have But that's another story.

Dai wrote:

tinyspuds wrote:I just dont want to spend a night in the snow half way to Capel Curig.

I have But that's another story.

I have done that too. Another story.

tinyspuds wrote:

Dai wrote:
I took a look at the EMS out of interest; it costs more than LFB is worth.

I’ve looked a lot at the BSK stuff, but hadn’t even realised they sold used bits the community might be interested in, sorry all. You’re right about the relative values on the EMS vs our bikes. But the issue for me is, not trusting the electronics takes the shine off my longer trips (perhaps irrationally). The economic argument is upgrade a bike I love to modern specs vs buying a modern bike.
Who knows? I just dont want to spend a night in the snow half way to Capel Curig.

Pudding delivery and parts collection!!!