Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions

bobgass · 1 Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:50 pm

bobgass

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Number of posts : 90

Hi, all. '95 K75. 30,000 miles. Sits in my heated garage all winter and is, frankly, a garage queen. It's never spent the winter outside here in frozen CNY, garage is 55 degrees F all winter.

Gave her the oil change/filter the other day. Brake lines bled yesterday. New front tire on order. Took her for a short spin to test efficacy of brakes and to have a brief 'summer' feeling.

It seems the issue emerged right after the short ride. Oil was light honey clear beforehand, but when I checked oil level for top-off afterward I noticed the discoloration in the window and could see some milkiness inside the filler cap. Also looked like droplets of water inside the top of the filler cap.

Drain hole was cleaned/explored/plunged, there was one wet droplet on my finger afterward. I haven't taken off the tank to examine coolant cap.

Yesterday I read a number of similar threads here about the 'mayonnaise' issue--water/oil pump seals/rebuild and/or blown head gasket, and I'm really trying not to retread over tired ground in this post--many similar threads have been here for quite a while.

Removal of pump assembly will naturally call for rebuild and examination, but what evidence would I be looking for with a blown head gasket? I'm certainly no mechanic, but the K has been a kind teacher of simple m/c maintenance and repair. Yet I've never taken the valve cover off--not sure what to expect.

Guess I'm asking whether there is any other possible explanation other than faulty seal(s) or head gasket before I launch into those jobs.

I am grateful for any input from the 'hive mind.' Thanks...

mike d · 2 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:03 pm

mike d

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The answer maybe in the fact you went for a short ride. Before delving into mechanical strip down, I would go for decent ride to get well up to temperature, to get rid of any condensation, then check the state of the sight glass etc.

Mike

Point-Seven-five · 3 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:20 pm

Point-Seven-five

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There is a weep hole on the water/oil pump assembly. First thing I would do is check it to make sure it isn't blocked. Then I would run the bike for a few minutes to see if anything comes out of it indicating that one of the seals is bad. While I have little experience in that part of the engine so far, my understanding is that the only way to get cross contamination between the pumps is with a bad seals and a plugged weep hole.

The other path is through the head gasket, and outside of pulling the head to look at it, I don't know of any way to confirm that is the source of your problem. It's possible that your coolant filler cap is blocked and over pressurizing the cooling system which can possibly push coolant into the oil. Look at it to make sure it's clean with no mineral buildups and has good gaskets. Speaking of coolant, when was the last time it was changed?

There is always the chance that you have a condensation issue, it's especially slim since the bike is in heated storage all winter, but it is where I would first put my hope as the cause of your problem.

My suggestion is to do an oil change with some inexpensive oil mixed with a couple ounces of 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol to pull the remaining water out of the engine. Smell the old oil to see if you can smell any antifreeze in it. Run the engine with the cheap oil for a half hour or so, a 10 mile ride would be good and drain it. Refill with inexpensive oil and a new filter. Watch the oil for signs of water and take the bike out for a couple of rides.

gorio · 4 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:26 pm

gorio

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Number of posts : 172

Before heading out out your longer ride note closely the oil level and the coolant level. Take a photo of them, use a piece of tape as a marker what ever will work so you can notice a small change in level.
You didn't say what the discoloration of the oil looked like?
A couple of drops of condensation on the filler plug is not unusual with spring weather.
Go ride for an hour maybe stopping here and there to see if there is change in the oil or coolant level.
By the way if you want to be kind to your bike change the oil before winterizing. That way it sits with nice clean oil in it over the winter.

bobgass · 5 A good long ride--sounds good right about now Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:31 pm

bobgass

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Number of posts : 90

Mike--I noted this as a suggestion in earlier threads as well. Is there a risk of permanent engine damage if the long, hot ride showed the same result?

I've kept the bike in this manner since I've owned it, about 12 years. I've never seen any evidence of the 'mayo' before now, so I'm concerned about doing serious damage.

Point-Seven-Five--I took the cotton off one end of a Q-Tip and plunged up into the drain hole. There was some oily crud, but that could be road grime, etc, that never got cleaned out. As a wrote, just a tiny amount of wetness on my finger, not a leak.

Coolant flushed and replaced about three years back, probably not 5,000 miles on it. I'll check the coolant filler cap as you suggested.

bobgass · 6 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:35 pm

bobgass

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Number of posts : 90

gorio wrote:Before heading out out your longer ride note closely the oil level and the coolant level. Take a photo of them, use a piece of tape as a marker what ever will work so you can notice a small change in level.
You didn't say what the discoloration of the oil looked like?
A couple of drops of condensation on the filler plug is not unusual with spring weather.
Go ride for an hour maybe stopping here and there to see if there is change in the oil or coolant level.
By the way if you want to be kind to your bike change the oil before winterizing. That way it sits with nice clean oil in it over the winter.

There doesn't seem to have been a whole lot of blending yet, as it's quite a new issue. Just a bit of creaminess visible inside filler cap area, but in the window there's 'streaks' of milkiness striped through the new oil. Never saw it before.

Point-Seven-five · 7 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:38 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Edit to above:

I just reread your original post more carefully and noticed that this milkiness is in the new oil after your change. If you ran the engine to warm the old oil before the change, that would probably eliminate condensation as a source of your problem.

You still want to check the weep hole and do an oil change. Check the coolant cap as well. Heating the oil slightly should help to make the antifreeze easier to smell in the oil.

A coolant change and system flush might be a good idea as well. Look for signs of oil in the coolant when you drain it. It might be worth trying some radiator stop leak in the coolant. As long as your riding is local trips, it might be an adequate fix for you. I wouldn't take a chance on it if I was doing a trip to the west coast though.

Point-Seven-five · 8 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:42 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Here's another idea. Run the engine until it's at normal running temperature. Take off the oil filler and see if you can smell any antifreeze. That should tell you if it's coolant or condensation.

bobgass · 9 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:44 pm

bobgass

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Number of posts : 90

Point-Seven-five wrote:Edit to above:

I just reread your original post more carefully and noticed that this milkiness is in the new oil after your change. If you ran the engine to warm the old oil before the change, that would probably eliminate condensation as a source of your problem.

You still want to check the weep hole and do an oil change. Check the coolant cap as well. Heating the oil slightly should help to make the antifreeze easier to smell in the oil.

A coolant change and system flush might be a good idea as well. Look for signs of oil in the coolant when you drain it. It might be worth trying some radiator stop leak in the coolant. As long as your riding is local trips, it might be an adequate fix for you. I wouldn't take a chance on it if I was doing a trip to the west coast though.

I did not warm the engine before draining. I did have the whole oil enterprise open for several hours though--as I was interrupted by my granddaughter's birth--a happy delay! I can't imagine that would have resulted in so much moisture though.

Trying to get bike into condition for some longer trips this summer, as I haven't had the opportunity to do that for several years.

Point-Seven-five · 10 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:50 pm

Point-Seven-five

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I live in WNY, and can tell you that the humidity has been pretty low for the past couple weeks, so the likelihood of condensation, especially in a heated garage is low, but(!), if you did an oil change without running the engine to warm it up, you probably did leave any moisture that was present behind when you drained the oil, so running the engine to get it nice and hot for a while might fix your problem.

bobgass · 11 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:55 pm

bobgass

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Point-Seven-five wrote:I live in WNY, and can tell you that the humidity has been pretty low for the past couple weeks, so the likelihood of condensation, especially in a heated garage is low, but(!), if you did an oil change without running the engine to warm it up, you probably did leave any moisture that was present behind when you drained the oil, so running the engine to get it nice and hot for a while might fix your problem.

I would like to think that'd be the answer, but will check the coolant cap and other suggestions here as well.
Here's to an early spring and a healthy bike...

Point-Seven-five · 12 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:18 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Keep us posted on what you're seeing and doing with this issue.

bobgass · 13 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:23 pm

bobgass

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Point-Seven-five wrote:Keep us posted on what you're seeing and doing with this issue.

Will do.

Twenty-six years is surely enough time for some rubber to give way--I'll keep investigating and share...thanks for your help.

Point-Seven-five · 14 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:26 pm

Point-Seven-five

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It definitely helps the knowledge base to know what the resolution to a problem finally turns out to be!

bobgass · 15 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:24 pm

bobgass

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Point-Seven-five wrote:Keep us posted on what you're seeing and doing with this issue.

Removed coolant filler cap and see nothing but coolant right up to the top. Cap gasket seems viable with a good tight seal.

I'm going to re-assemble and dodge the cold rain for a ride to heat things up...

Laitch · 16 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:40 pm

Laitch

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bobgass wrote:Removed coolant filler cap and see nothing but coolant right up to the top. Cap gasket seems viable with a good tight seal.

With a cold engine, the coolant level in the reservoir's sight tube should lie between the Min and Max lines, not "right up to the top." Break out the turkey baster and remove the coolant down to the correct level. You can use what's removed to adjust the level, if that should ever be needed.

Point-Seven-five · 17 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:46 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Laitch, I think he is talking about the filler under the tank. I don't think he wants to remove any of that coolant, but it's good that he should check the level in the overflow tank.

Laitch · 18 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:52 pm

Laitch

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Point-Seven-five wrote:Laitch, I think . . .

Maybe, but that's the wrong place to check the level and by checking it there, he's introduced air into the system which will need to be purged. Maybe he knows how to do that.

bobgass · 19 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:57 pm

bobgass

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Laitch wrote:

bobgass wrote:Removed coolant filler cap and see nothing but coolant right up to the top. Cap gasket seems viable with a good tight seal.

With a cold engine, the coolant level in the reservoir's sight tube should lie between the Min and Max lines, not "right up to the top." Break out the turkey baster and remove the coolant down to the correct level. You can use what's removed to adjust the level, if that should ever be needed.

Level was just above Min in the reservoir's sight tube. I had removed the gas tank and examined the coolant level in the filler in that locale, where it was right up to the top.

bobgass · 20 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:02 pm

bobgass

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Laitch wrote:

Point-Seven-five wrote:Laitch, I think . . .

Maybe, but that's the wrong place to check the level and by checking it there, he's introduced air into the system which will need to be purged. Maybe he knows how to do that.

My resources are this forum and the Clymer manual...never purged the coolant system before. Just drained and refilled. Embarassed

bobgass · 21 Observations after good hot ride. Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:17 pm

bobgass

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Bundled up and went for a good 30 minute ride at speed. Probably qualified for a speeding ticket on that journey, as I wanted to get some RPMs and heat going...

The bike performed well, no loss of performance that I could ascertain.

The oil does look clear in the sight window--no signs of cloudiness. Also inside the oil filler cap area, I no longer see the 'mayo' goo, but there seems to be a faint aroma of antifreeze and the appearance of green liquid around the filler rim--but it's possible I'm trying too hard to see it and smell it.

No leaks from underneath.

Plan at this point is to 'go with it' and try to get a few more hot rides in once the weather becomes agreeable.

Laitch · 22 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:26 pm

Laitch

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bobgass wrote:The oil does look clear in the sight window--no signs of cloudiness.

Laitch · 23 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:59 pm

Laitch

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bobgass wrote:My resources are this forum and the Clymer manual...never purged the coolant system before. Just drained and refilled.

I should have made a distinction between checking the level then topping it up, and refilling and purging. It's good you've got a Clymer.

You check coolant level by looking in the sight tube of the reservoir(tank) then add coolant to the reservoir if necessary. This is from Clymer, p.342 in my copy.

Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Adding11

Purging is the releasing of air when refilling after a cooling system flush or if the coolant filler cap has been open. There might be no air bubbles rising in the coolant, but usually there are some. The entire instructions are found in Clymer's Maintenance section. These are just an extract from part of the process, p.59 in my copy.

Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Purgin10

92KK 84WW Olaf · 24 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:20 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Odds are that's condensation and no more than that. My Ks get it on short runs. Days of an 11 mile trip to the city 23 times a day and the K engine doe snot get hot enough to clear it all, The underside of the filler cap gathers may despite zero contamination. That happens across 3 Ks.

daveyson · 25 Mayo Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:45 pm

daveyson

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It sounds minor, so probably just condensation, which is normal. I spose those symptoms would be more in New York.

When the engine is cold, look at the exhaust when you press the start button. There should be no white smoke or water coming out. After a few minutes there will be white smoke, thats condensation and normal, when it warms up there should be no smoke. There should be no water after revving. When you come back from a ride and the engine is warm, at idle there should be no smoke and the exhaust should feel dry. If you collect condensation or drops from the exhaust and it's green like your coolant, that's not looking good.

Again, it sounds so minor it's probably just condensation.

By the way it sounds like the cam cover hasn't been off in over ten years, so it's time to remove it soon to check the valve clearances, it's not as difficult as it might seem. There's a YouTube clip on it by Chris Harris.

bobgass · 26 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:22 pm

bobgass

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Laitch--it looks like a good time for a flusheroo, so I'll definitely be purging. Process of elimination. Surprised

daveyson--It's been at least that long. I haven't done it since I've owned the bike. I'll watch the videos and make a plan to do so.

I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a larger issue, but I'll certainly be spending more time with the bike and riding it to make sure it's sorted out. Maybe it's telling me something...

Thanks to all here. Big thumb

Point-Seven-five · 27 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:54 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Not a bad idea to do a flush and refill of the cooling system. It can't hurt, and will insure that you have maximum cooling ability if you plan on traveling with a load of gear and possibly a passenger.

Just curious, where are you located in central New York? I'm guessing Syracuse.

bobgass · 28 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:38 pm

bobgass

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Point-Seven-five wrote:Not a bad idea to do a flush and refill of the cooling system. It can't hurt, and will insure that you have maximum cooling ability if you plan on traveling with a load of gear and possibly a passenger.

Just curious, where are you located in central New York? I'm guessing Syracuse.

My daughter lives in Syracuse (and keeps wanting to get a bike, so I'm looking for a Honda Rebel 250 she can start on).

We live outside of Mohawk, southern Herkimer County...(please don't judge...I have really nice neighbors!) So the ADKs and Catskills are great daytrip destinations in the summer.

Full disclosure, I've been cheating on my bike with a Miata now for about 6 years...they are both garage queens in the winter.

Point-Seven-five · 29 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:03 am

Point-Seven-five

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Nice place for riding! Lots of nice roads north and south of you and less than 2 hours to New England. I've been thinking of getting a toy car. The guys I hang with have a bunch of nice stuff, '64 Corvette show car, a couple Miata's, and a guy who changes cars more often than his underwear. I've been looking at miatas myself, but would really like to get a '65 or '66 turbo Corvair like I had back in my misspent youth.

bobgass · 30 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:32 am

bobgass

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Once they sweep the roads, it is a great place to ride. There are tons of twisty, hilly roads with very little traffic in the immediate vicinity that are perfect for the bike.

I had a mint-y 91 NA Miata that got totaled last summer when a kid cut me off in Utica. Now sporting an 09 NC Miata with the PRHT bought with the kid's insurance.

Point-Seven-five · 31 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:41 am

Point-Seven-five

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Nice! Riding in the Catskills would make a nice Covid lockdown weekend!

yankeeone · 32 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:27 pm

yankeeone

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point seven five, Jay Leno utube channel has a turbo corvair in the lineup .

Point-Seven-five · 33 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:26 pm

Point-Seven-five

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Looks like the one I had in the late 60's. Mine was a deep metallic ocean blue, turbo, koni shocks, positraction, 14" mag wheels, Dunlop radials, short throw shifter, AND a factory am/fm Delco radio! The college professor I bought it from had set it up for autocross. Paid $1000 in 1968 with 12,000 miles on it. Jay's looks like he replaced the deluxe vinyl with real leather upholstery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II1uoBn6whw

I got tired of rebuilding the turbo and sold it for $125 in 1973 to buy a VW camper. One of the things I most regret in my life.

yankeeone · 34 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:26 pm

yankeeone

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I took a ride in a mid engine corvair conversion that had a chevy 350 in it, probably in 1978, not much would touch it at the time.
I had a 66 Mustang factory GT in 1979, I was twenty at the time, she was rough but ran well. sold it for 100.00 in 81

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1 Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:50 pm

bobgass

2 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:03 pm

mike d

3 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:20 pm

Point-Seven-five

4 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:26 pm

gorio

5 A good long ride--sounds good right about now Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:31 pm

bobgass

6 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:35 pm

bobgass

7 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:38 pm

Point-Seven-five

8 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:42 pm

Point-Seven-five

9 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:44 pm

bobgass

10 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:50 pm

Point-Seven-five

11 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:55 pm

bobgass

12 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:18 pm

Point-Seven-five

13 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:23 pm

bobgass

14 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:26 pm

Point-Seven-five

15 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:24 pm

bobgass

16 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:40 pm

Laitch

17 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:46 pm

Point-Seven-five

18 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:52 pm

Laitch

19 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:57 pm

bobgass

20 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:02 pm

bobgass

21 Observations after good hot ride. Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:17 pm

bobgass

22 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:26 pm

Laitch

23 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:59 pm

Laitch

24 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:20 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

25 Mayo Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:45 pm

daveyson

26 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:22 pm

bobgass

27 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:54 pm

Point-Seven-five

28 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:38 pm

bobgass

29 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:03 am

Point-Seven-five

30 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:32 am

bobgass

31 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:41 am

Point-Seven-five

32 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:27 pm

yankeeone

33 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:26 pm

Point-Seven-five

34 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:26 pm

yankeeone

35 Re: Another 'mayo' issue--diagonosis questions

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