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K100-forum.com » Technical, repair and troubleshooting » Engine and transmission » A party inside the shaft drive

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1Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty A party inside the shaft drive Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:56 am

StefanMajonez

StefanMajonez
active member
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Hi!

I was riding around, minding my own business, when suddenly...



A party inside the shaft drive YHEgkUdLp41w7oYNW0CccyZvLohqMoqcufMXcYeBf8tX_IGVlbdBJwz72c_ElMkgeZO1Lr8ebu7SaOktXpkH1AOogJmncOCWSbld4vgOaa2J-Jt_-YKeyvFhkh7UOLq53CUHFiYsOkDQubAdF62fsjMTBw6LzQf5p-a-ode7Kkxka1vbdzGuKl3g6jThEGsn-eelJFyuD0dYUpjDKXpOfXmXDaFFdWiYcIPgAMmiEH0-jb8L8S1AHPskhO-B5nfE6p5uLxJJEKQDfrQER1RvIqj7FeFBMV_DSlIYhsqz8U-wjxWaZcNXL-1-eo7U-RpB-8iXFCakQn1atU1lgEMRHJ7aZW6d5BlQ5BYIUADDptgQvgTmQ6BvSjiLqx1whW4vHHw075rhPC6-GsVJgWM8LS5r7RO_95hZUF9tKAEY2ZC45GzbUdNcdkWkn7Sze1VhP0CsyNUI9EdBf6FBP8IreX2OjQTWQyjYpeIWz6n-C2_h7u9Upla87r6hfrldzoyjNbHzjU_uBrKnMmo1aoA1BFYPk88abd5mr3XTJFMIdA9Z0q3NNrendYddjpj1wtnnamEPrYlH5o8vZUxbViH7d5LSTkV8lYo350ulszc=w1219-h914-noA party inside the shaft drive EIEwcqnasNhFuS3KvgEb-G3nAOjmNEQ3IgcEtn6APGDpQQMjZcN-JkKWuigSOpdkcuEdnrsB1GtCDBVIGL_r5N1n0QQ3FxbQ_TJ9EdlK-FQrodyMwawCoO1yKzWlvsYThoPJvu9nMFjNtxl2Djz-_b_d8Ld_O5yNkyPGYwUL6m9vzOyjZpmT77xN9ld4DIU46Uiyv5vDd2P9k8jy2IP_2q44Jw4oNmmD0nTQgZtOJrvnEyIKESkneYkpM4xZBYvK2EDYkcXWChLF9ckh2c3ZpIufjl9Wy8zazzSJ6DQFeJnILXiikd-VhQZPlNUoz6cRUCwFR9Isvgm5jjCivi2vt2tK31uZIb0eKwHzu3komhPjd2H5A77vEbCeR-bj-4ir3wpT37sIpqEoZ7CiVGfMVVTGEUeynPbGzXPaRTpqxA_4Bys3tCzznkytQKjOtVxXHBRnqwY6Rw5upxJULbtJpceevy-vq8X2qpkutNXw5wmzyJkvdFGhbFnrDT5EYFJ0L9b0dYIlcx5o8xXjqcKV5RomH4Pe6hAv1iBiqqrpuR2g6hISdx3zEfI_QwyV-Xi0DHAvEbROViUK_7YpxY7aL-xD1JORiJgPEeLEO8U=w1219-h914-no

How f**ked am I and what should I be replacing?  Very Happy



Last edited by StefanMajonez on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1994 - BMW K1100LT
Dyno results 2017

Previous bike:
1989 Honda CB450S
    

2Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:25 pm

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
I suspect we are looking at the result of an improperly phased drive shaft. 

Have you looked at the front end of the drive shaft? 

At a minimum you need a swing arm and a drive shaft(possibly just the rear half). 

Can you pull the shaft without removing the rear section?  It would be informative to see the phasing of the u-joints.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

3Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:50 pm

StefanMajonez

StefanMajonez
active member
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Point-Seven-five wrote:I suspect we are looking at the result of an improperly phased drive shaft. 

Have you looked at the front end of the drive shaft? 

At a minimum you need a swing arm and a drive shaft(possibly just the rear half). 

Can you pull the shaft without removing the rear section?  It would be informative to see the phasing of the u-joints.
There you go.

A party inside the shaft drive 366AdWBzxwoQj3exT6AtlUGeKL77C4rltyyzVZ6wxxl5I3w7yaIhNaASl61ot1hlMXASdQGzCK6chLLGVCTEL5Bi9A8tH5EV573si84LyKSTOEmEq-wpgnAPK2cBuaEWE7mU8GSKnSRdJDBYQ8bPlQwYWInwFKKUS3nRbgoKNku8KoFxOihTIJxqidQwbQcP6t1ieG_eqCQMfiK86mR95VZyGgX1BwmCZw5PAul7LRwkcHpFogwmFh5SMHEmvpejVsQ8IAzf4PghQb78Jxi0szKrK6yKCL7jM_ioObz2JEQ8wNIMBnNKFjdLKG_GsNJ5JMg-FmQfPh0ELLexvNk8J6w9JrvId73yPV7uXBxe7DiYUBoXOdbWjiWBXXO1zamoQb4ghx4v_d7U9tmZ3aiJ5ho59Fd_GU_xZvPMb0gCng8T-VgKHyAfKrmRG53jHC9weOWK-ai_sk8RBlrrhpv8Bypvh-3GYkxTmlholn6E3xTpCIoaawC61M-RijBr9Yy8u9b071GHviC9OHKu4fL1wXjjA03I2YDlS_mCjdyZQuGxqRDs8NZ1j0qV2hespyOxAadkq9AKv6gsNRw7liasHKIdFpgjwQ7TxaqJlaA=w1219-h914-noA party inside the shaft drive HIOF1gE-BL3VwZ6oePpYWO-yeuvyslVDKw0T-iRjtCNRqRL9kgvmsDuKyrs-K-EqGtTmzEclWRlQmqSkp--kmOTtIgUGx5zLbqYWdpN4F3595kZJ7dyI3tPGu3knj61Lfa1unGHvDBo_pjyEfhDYV2Ssjpyu0ib6hV6mkatn2CIO3gNGKbrrnAoOoJYHPh4KAYP2TvDIOMl5CxCf20PMxGTqKpDA8ASQ-PCnMEGqfF0BHqsVVFNMSIHF08CunXn4V1Fqn7JEJcGL9vBxb5gTyT4nS6-nWScMUIpN8wCULgXftRa54ebClIU9SBTcWSH-vFWFx1wt5RuFVjZZvD578zBGxwSIOpY5UVXynKiRpCM7LuMJEiwUdcPMwEhJly1MhrnQ5C7DD1DqLSXPHxtgXxz4WlFQGOCQ3YvPPNB2hzRVPSh9uNrQvLIhY_PI5oFm4MBc5Cb25FmFdqlb1U9Mytuye8BaqLAmRs9jh-xpuBLDlkkZJUR4LV3EtpyC37UkyAVGfGv-UKiJuNQjWY2tYFWUm8au9AwF9b8rHfRiliQmZcWsOKwszlCKrbvFgJVwNK6Q0UWxGx_NfhoQYA_v-WNwEsDxU5DNzPMlNTQ=w686-h914-no

Here you have an additional photo of the swing arm itself - it looks operational to me, do you think that damage is small enough to just clean it up and use it?

The shaft is indeed a tiny bit out of phase, but would such a tiny shift cause this?

Just so everyone knows, I'm a K bike owner for a year now and this is the very first time I even pulled the rear wheel off by myself - I didn't need to do it yet. So any help or knowledge is appreciated.



Last edited by StefanMajonez on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1994 - BMW K1100LT
Dyno results 2017

Previous bike:
1989 Honda CB450S
    

4Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:05 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
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Point-Seven-five wrote: Can you pull the shaft without removing the rear section?  It would be informative to see the phasing of the u-joints.
For an illustration of phasing, click on this link.  In a  two-piece driveshaft, the yokes of the joints at its ends must be oriented in the same direction. In the link, the yokes at the ends of the driveshaft are aligned vertically.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

5Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:41 pm

Rick G

Rick G
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This will add to the link given. You said the shaft was a tiny bit out so this could explain what goes on
A party inside the shaft drive Drive_12


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

6Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:53 am

Gaz

Gaz
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Can't see the original poster's photos - anyone else seeing them?


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Gaz
1990 K75 6427509; 1987 R80G/S PD 6292136; 2010 G650GS ZW13381; 95 K1100LT 0232224
    

7Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:50 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Gaz wrote:Can't see the original poster's photos - anyone else seeing them?

Not seeing them either. They must be out of phase.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 51,800 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
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1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
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8Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:40 am

Matthew-Brisbane

Matthew-Brisbane
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Same here 

Must admitt that i was here to see the horror show

    

9Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:45 pm

StefanMajonez

StefanMajonez
active member
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Photos are here, sorry about the confusion.


__________________________________________________
1994 - BMW K1100LT
Dyno results 2017

Previous bike:
1989 Honda CB450S
    

10Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:48 pm

StefanMajonez

StefanMajonez
active member
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Point-Seven-five wrote:At a minimum you need a swing arm and a drive shaft(possibly just the rear half). 

I'm intrigued. Every online BMW store I visited sells the shaft as a single unit, I've never seen only the rear part. Where would I find such a thing?


__________________________________________________
1994 - BMW K1100LT
Dyno results 2017

Previous bike:
1989 Honda CB450S
    

11Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:40 pm

Laitch

Laitch
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StefanMajonez wrote: Every online BMW store I visited sells the shaft as a single unit, I've never seen only the rear part. Where would I find such a thing?
eBay


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1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

12Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:55 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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Laitch wrote: eBay

Usually sold as a complete unit even there.....try Bombay A party inside the shaft drive Skum_a10


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

13Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:10 am

StefanMajonez

StefanMajonez
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Inge K. wrote:
Laitch wrote: eBay

Usually sold as a complete unit even there.....try Bombay A party inside the shaft drive Skum_a10
Actually on eBay a lot of people are selling only the front part of the shaft - exactly what I don't need Very Happy Also, shipping to Europe is costly, as most eBay sellers are in the US.

What do you mean by Bombay? My Google-fu didn't yield any results


__________________________________________________
1994 - BMW K1100LT
Dyno results 2017

Previous bike:
1989 Honda CB450S
    

14Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:06 pm

Inge K.

Inge K.
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StefanMajonez wrote:
What do you mean by Bombay? My Google-fu didn't yield any results

Sorry......to much beer yesterday night.......to much mumbling in the bai.


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Inge K.
K100RS -86. (first owner), K1100LTSE -94.
    

15Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:34 pm

StefanMajonez

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Update: Decorations!

A party inside the shaft drive 20180312
A party inside the shaft drive 20180313


__________________________________________________
1994 - BMW K1100LT
Dyno results 2017

Previous bike:
1989 Honda CB450S
    

16Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:16 am

StefanMajonez

StefanMajonez
active member
active member
Hi!

I'm reviving this post to ask another question, before I put my bike together.

A friend of mine who is an amateur mechanic person told me that a shaft drive needs to be balanced, and I see where he's coming from - an unbalanced shaft means vibration, and potential havoc on the transmission and the shaft itself.

But he told me that I should replace my shaft with a new one ASAP because of what's on the pictures below. Is he exaggerating, or are those scuff marks enough to warrant buying a new shaft (or having this one repaired in a machine shop, if possible)?

A party inside the shaft drive 110
A party inside the shaft drive 210
A party inside the shaft drive 310
A party inside the shaft drive 410
A party inside the shaft drive 510


__________________________________________________
1994 - BMW K1100LT
Dyno results 2017

Previous bike:
1989 Honda CB450S
    

17Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:47 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
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You've probably lost a few grams of weight; IMHO not enough to worry about.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

18Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Re: A party inside the shaft drive Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:03 am

StefanMajonez

StefanMajonez
active member
active member
Dai wrote:You've probably lost a few grams of weight; IMHO not enough to worry about.

In my estimation not even that; the flash camera makes it seem rough when in fact, moving your finger across the shaft, you can maybe feel the unevenness in 2 or 3 places.

The real question is, will the shaft be all happy and dandy at 200 km/h?  Very Happy


__________________________________________________
1994 - BMW K1100LT
Dyno results 2017

Previous bike:
1989 Honda CB450S
    

19Back to top Go down   A party inside the shaft drive Empty Driveshaft wear marks Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:42 pm

redrockmania

redrockmania
Silver member
Silver member
Stefan - Looking at your 3 photographs the wear marks look somewhat superficial. If you are concerned, first discuss with a K100 expert mechanic/technician if they might cause a balance/safety issue at 200kmh. As an engineering problem it looks like an easy job to machine with a lathe the part with the wear marks until they are gone. This will address any balance problems - if indeed they exist.

    

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