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1Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty 85 k100rs wont accelerate Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:23 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
active member
Greetings!!

I recently got my 85 k100rs back on the road with guidance from the amazing folks on this forum. It was running great for several weeks as I rode it daily and I went through a few tanks of gas. However, on the way to work today I ran into a problem. At the very end of my trip the bike felt like it was dying on me. It didnt stop running but it was moving very very slowly regardless of how much I throttled. Downshifting helped but I wasnt able to get it moving faster than a snails pace. I managed to crawl the final 1/4 mile to the parking lot and at the end the temperature light was flickering a bit as the bike struggled up a hill. 

I just went back to it after about 9 hours and its still not working correctly. The bike starts up fine, idles fine and when I throttle in neutral it sounds fine too. When I put it into gear and try to ride it just doesnt get going. When I throttle hard in first gear it sputters instead of accelerating.

My guess is that this is a bigger problem then my previous project of replacing oil/water seals. My intuition says it has something to do with not getting enough fuel but I am not sure how to check this or how to proceed from here. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!!

thank you all!

Ben

    

2Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:22 pm

indian036

indian036
Life time member
Life time member
I think your diagnosis is correct - classic symptom of not enough fuel getting through. 

If you can get a pressure gauge into the line between the tank and fuel pressure regulator, that would be a start. 

Short of a fuel leak somewhere, which you would be likely to see, there is an intake filter in the tank, a metal can filter also in the tank, the fuel pump, yet again in the tank and the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) down near the injectors. Clogged filter or malfunctioning pump or FPR would cause the problem. There is a possibility that the injectors are clogged, but it's unlikely to happen to all four simultaneously, so one of the others is more likely. 

Bill


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT  VIN 0028991  My original Very Happy ROB the Red Old Bike   (Historic rego)
1985 K100RT  VIN 0029036  BOB the Blue Old Bike  (Historic rego)
1990 K100LT  VIN 0190452  Work in progress
1984 K100RT  VIN 0023022  Work needing lots of progress

1986 K100RT  VIN 0090542  Work needing lots and lots of progress
1993 K1100LT  VIN 0183046  Work in progress
1993 K75S  VIN 0213045  Tom the Triple (now on Historic rego too.)
    

3Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:07 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

avatar
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To add to Bills comment which I agree with on the injectors its possible to have a pipe disconnection inside the tank and which would not cause a leak. Run it with cap open and if you see petrol sloshing around from the pump but engine not running that may be your problem or it may be bad FPR. You seem to have enough fuel to start and to tick over but not to run which is suggesting low pressure.

Might sound daft but contaminated fuel can do that too, or diesel mixed in with petrol. But if sitting for a long time and now a few tanks of gas I would think change out the fuel filter.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 51,800 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

4Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:44 pm

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
Filter first then if it is still at it check the fuel pressure and go from there.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

5Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:24 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
active member
Thanks for all the info. Is there a way to determine if the filter is the culprit by looking at it before I purchase a new one? You all are the best!

    

6Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:02 am

indian036

indian036
Life time member
Life time member
Hi Benny,

the primary input filter is effectively a bag over the fuel intake, and that can be looked at, cleaned etc, no problem.

The other one is a metal can, so you might get a bit of an idea by trying to blow through it (in direction of fuel flow), but its not a very good indicator. Replace rather than attempt to clean.

If the primary filter is clogged, clean and try again. If still not good, replace the metal can one. Go on from there if necessary.

Very Happy

Bill


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT  VIN 0028991  My original Very Happy ROB the Red Old Bike   (Historic rego)
1985 K100RT  VIN 0029036  BOB the Blue Old Bike  (Historic rego)
1990 K100LT  VIN 0190452  Work in progress
1984 K100RT  VIN 0023022  Work needing lots of progress

1986 K100RT  VIN 0090542  Work needing lots and lots of progress
1993 K1100LT  VIN 0183046  Work in progress
1993 K75S  VIN 0213045  Tom the Triple (now on Historic rego too.)
    

7Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:09 am

RT

RT
Life time member
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A new filter, if you blow air through it with your mouth in the direction of the arrow on the outside, feels like blowing through a straw. No resistance. I reckon if you remove the fuel cap assembly, gets your hand access to inside the tank, and the filter will be attached by stainless screwdown clamps. Undo both of the clamps and pull the filter off the hoses, then blow, don't suck, through the filter, see what it feels like. If you ve done that you may as well put a new one in anyway. Don't smoke and make sure the fuel cap assembly goes back on in the same direction as it came off. Cap opens back towards the rider and there is a little hole in the edge that lines up with a hole in the tank top for water/rain drainage I guess. 
This sounds like a problem I was having and my in tank fuel hoses were disintegrating, blocking the filter almost completely.
Don't be scared to have a go at this, there is plenty of help watching your progress.
Good luck mate.
RT


__________________________________________________
2011 R1200RT
    

8Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:02 am

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
active member
Ok I think I understand how to get started on this and what to look for. Thanks again for all the input. I'm gonna get it towed to my house today and take a look.

Do I need to siphon out the gas in there before removing the filter? There isnt much gas in there, probably 1/4 tank or less. I feel like I could probably just wear gloves and not get any gas on my hands or anything but I'm not sure if there will be a leak after I remove the filter(s).

    

9Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:06 am

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
Don't worry about the existing fuel in the tank - it can't go anywhere when you pull the pump and filter. Protective gloves are up to you


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

10Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:11 pm

Comberjohn

Comberjohn
Life time member
Life time member
If you use latex gloves the fuel will melt them straight away.
Don't worry about draining the tank. For all the time your hand will be in there, won't do any harm.
I had a blocked filter and the bike completely died on me. Not able to blow through it when I took it out.


__________________________________________________
Life is not a rehearsal.
2010 VFR 1200F DCT 
2010 R1200GS(gone)
1986 K100 Silver(gone)
2012 K1600GT(gone)
1984 K100RT Madison Silver(gone)
1989 K100LT Stratus Grey(gone)
1984 K100 Red(gone)
http://www.johnsdrivingschool.co
    

11Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:58 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
active member
Ok got the filter out. It was pretty hard to blow through and the fuel that came out of the filter was black. Seems like the filter is worth replacing and might be causing the problem. Question though, should I replace the hose? Seems like I should as that might be disintegrating and causing the problem similar to what RT said. Also, there are bits of what I am assuming is the hose inside the tank. Should I be worried about that? I'll post some pictures of the tube and inside the tank in a few minutes, let me know what you think.

Thanks

Ben

    

12Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:06 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
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85 k100rs wont accelerate Image10

85 k100rs wont accelerate Image13

85 k100rs wont accelerate Image14

85 k100rs wont accelerate Image15

    

13Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:27 pm

blaKey

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If you do replace the fuel lines in the tank, they are rated SAE 30R10. This means that the fuel line can be fully immersed in fuel.


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

14Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:06 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
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I have also just noticed that the crankcase breather hose is cracked and damaged. Can that be replaced easily? Could this be contributing to my problem?

Be

    

15Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:56 pm

blaKey

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Life time member
Life time member
It does cause the bike to run rough. Cheap and easy fix.


__________________________________________________
Neil
K100RS 1986 RED!

Dress for the ride and the potential slide.
    

16Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:11 am

indian036

indian036
Life time member
Life time member
blaKey wrote:If you do replace the fuel lines in the tank, they are rated SAE 30R10. This means that the fuel line can be fully immersed in fuel.
A new filter is a no-brainer. Any filter that is removed should be replaced with new unless you know the time and mileage history, IMHO. Ditto tank internal fuel hoses, but especially after your words on the filter and black stuff. 

Most parts places probably won't recognise the SAE reference, but they should be ok if you tell them that it has to be immersible in fuel. As blaKey says, they need to be, or the only question about problems is "when?"  

The picture of the bits in the tank doesn't seem to show a lot. If that's representative of the tank, and the pre-screen filter is ok and clean, I wouldn't worry.

Bill


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT  VIN 0028991  My original Very Happy ROB the Red Old Bike   (Historic rego)
1985 K100RT  VIN 0029036  BOB the Blue Old Bike  (Historic rego)
1990 K100LT  VIN 0190452  Work in progress
1984 K100RT  VIN 0023022  Work needing lots of progress

1986 K100RT  VIN 0090542  Work needing lots and lots of progress
1993 K1100LT  VIN 0183046  Work in progress
1993 K75S  VIN 0213045  Tom the Triple (now on Historic rego too.)
    

17Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:37 am

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin
Sounds like it's the worse for wear.
If you don't know when the filter was last replaced then fit a new one. the fuel lins will almost certainly need replacingand the crankcase breather.  Check the clamps on the throttle body rubbers, top and bottom, and you may even need new manifold stubs as they split and leak air. All the parts between the air filter and cylinder head are prone to air leaks as they age and that will effect the running.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

18Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:51 am

Comberjohn

Comberjohn
Life time member
Life time member
While you are in the tank, whip the pump out of its holder.
It will only take seconds to do. Squeeze the clips and pull it out.
There's a nylon gauze filter on the end of the pump that can disintegrate and allow crap into the pump and seize it up.
Been there, done that.


__________________________________________________
Life is not a rehearsal.
2010 VFR 1200F DCT 
2010 R1200GS(gone)
1986 K100 Silver(gone)
2012 K1600GT(gone)
1984 K100RT Madison Silver(gone)
1989 K100LT Stratus Grey(gone)
1984 K100 Red(gone)
http://www.johnsdrivingschool.co
    

19Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:57 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
active member
thanks for the info blakey and bill. Rick- the throttle body rubbers and manifold stubs seem ok, not splitting or cracking...yet. 

I took out the fuel pump (see pic) and I seem to have found the cause of all the black bits in the tank and probably what clogged up the can filter. The vibration damper is completely shot and in pieces. There were even some large pieces of rubber at the bottom of the primary filter and a pile of smaller stuff below the filter under the pump. 

85 k100rs wont accelerate Img_0710

I can't thank everyone enough for their help and guidance on this- I am learning so much. Heres what I'm thinking based on everyones input and what I've seen:

Since the bike was starting and running at very low speeds I think the pump itself is ok. However, the primary filter and can filter were clogged and the crankcase breather hose was busted, each of which contributed to my inability to accelerate and sputtering when trying to do so. Does this sound accurate to everyone?

Ive read through previous posts about the crankcase breather and vibration damper and understand how to change them out. Wow is that damper expensive though on max bmw (as so many have pointed out). 

What I'm planning to do:

I want to replace the vibration damper, can filter and crankcase breather tube. Is it ok to purchase the following from beamer boneyard?  It makes me a little nervous that they are cheaper and not from bmw. 

Can Filter
Fuel Hose

Also, I'm confused about the vibration damper. Mine has 6 screws and a round shape (see pic below) while the new damper has 5 screws and a one flat side (see links below). Is this just a new design? I actually found the same design as mine on motobins, should I just get that one?


pre 85 vibration damper


85 k100rs wont accelerate Img_0711
 

I'm ready to purchase some parts but want to hear what you think first. 

Thanks again for all the help

Ben

    

20Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:19 pm

Rick G

Rick G
admin
admin


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

21Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:58 pm

robmack

robmack
Life time member
Life time member
Beemer boneyard says in the description that everything pictured except for the ring will be shipped. That means you'll have to repurpose your original ring since you don't receive a new ring. That shouldn't be a fitment problem then. The picture of your old ring looks ok so you should not need a new one; just the rubber vibration damper.


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

22Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:34 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
active member
I actually found all the parts I need for a a bit cheaper on motobins. Is there any reason I shouldnt purchase those?

Sorry for the basic question but I'm only just learning about all the places to buy parts. So far I know of maxbmw, motobins, euromotoelectrics, beemerboneyard and of course ebay/craigslist for used parts. I read a few previous posts about motobins and it seems like a good place to buy from, just want to be sure.

Ben

    

23Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:36 pm

indian036

indian036
Life time member
Life time member
A large number of forum members, many not in UK, buy from motobins. They wouldn't keep doing it if they were no good. Go for it.

Bill


__________________________________________________
1985 K100RT  VIN 0028991  My original Very Happy ROB the Red Old Bike   (Historic rego)
1985 K100RT  VIN 0029036  BOB the Blue Old Bike  (Historic rego)
1990 K100LT  VIN 0190452  Work in progress
1984 K100RT  VIN 0023022  Work needing lots of progress

1986 K100RT  VIN 0090542  Work needing lots and lots of progress
1993 K1100LT  VIN 0183046  Work in progress
1993 K75S  VIN 0213045  Tom the Triple (now on Historic rego too.)
    

24Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:12 pm

Dai

Dai
Life time member
Life time member
try http://www.motorworks.co.uk. For a lot of things they are a lot cheaper than motobins, plus they do a good pre-loved/breaking/wreckers/secondhand/call-it-what-you-like section as well.


__________________________________________________
1983 K100 naked upgraded to K100LT spec after spending time as an RS and an RT
1987 K100RT
Others...
1978 Moto Guzzi 850-T3, 1979 Moto Guzzi 850-T3 California,1993 Moto Guzzi 1100ie California
2020 Royal Enfield Bullet 500
    

25Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:36 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
active member
Thanks again for all the help and information on this. After considering all the input I replaced the fuel filter, put in new connecting hoses, replaced the vibration damper and replaced the crankcase breather tube. After doing all this the bike was running great!.....for about a week.

Just when I thought I was in the clear and was about to thank everyone on this forum, the same problem seemed to occur yesterday. This time I was able to get going a bit faster then before, but the bike was struggling to accelerate again. I removed the new fuel filter just now and it is difficult to blow through. Not quite as difficult to blow through as the previous one I replaced, but definitely blocked way more than it should be after just a week of use. Being a bit less blocked then the previous one also explains why I was able to get going a bit faster.

I am going to replace the fuel filter again, but whats the problem??

My thought is that I am paying the price for letting the bike sit too long. The old vibration damper had begun to disintegrate resulting in rubber inside the tank. While I still have the mesh filter over the pump, maybe small particles are getting through and clogging the fuel filter? Should I just siphon out all the gas and as much of the rubber as I can and hope for the best? Or does someone think there may be something else going on?

thanks for considering this for me. I look forward to some additional ideas!

Ben

    

26Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:30 pm

brickrider

brickrider
Life time member
Life time member
Hi Ben,
It seems to me that you should be able to give the tank a fair visual inspection to determine the extent of contamination inside.  What do you see in there?  I'd go well beyond siphoning the fuel out.  I'd remove the tank if it were mine and invert it to drain all the fuel.  Following that, a good flush would be in order. 
Don't discount the possibility that you inadvertently bought some poor quality fuel during the week.  That's not out of the question, especially if the interior of the tank appears relatively clean.


__________________________________________________
Brickrider
1985 K100RS; brick red, of course!
    

27Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:06 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
Agree. Take the tank off and empty it right out and flush. From your photos it looks like you have old rubber bits floating around. These will only break down over time continually clogging the fuel filter. Change the vibration damper and internal hoses and get all the crap out of the tank.

I've just done a routine filter change and was surprised to find bits floating around in the tank as I'd cleaned it out about a year ago. Took the pump out and the damper is starting to disintergrate. I drained the old filter into a glass jar and there was A LOT of black rubber fines that had made its way thru the pre-filter.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 85 k100rs wont accelerate Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

28Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:46 pm

bennyfoofoo

bennyfoofoo
active member
active member
Thanks for the replies. Your past problem sounds very similar to mine, Kaptain Holister.

I have removed the fuel tank before so I am familiar with that process, but how does one "flush" the tank? Just pour more gas in and swish it around while trying to get all the black bits towards one of the holes?

thanks,

Ben

    

29Back to top Go down   85 k100rs wont accelerate Empty Re: 85 k100rs wont accelerate Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:48 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
When the red light comes on you'll have about 6 or so litres in the tank. Remove the filler cap completely and give it a good slosh around and up-end the tank over a large clean basin/bucket. You'll need to shake it a bit to get the last of the fuel out over the lip on the inside of the filler hole. The crap will settle to the bottom of the basin. Just use a clean jar or cup to put about a litre back in and repeat.

Last year I had a sludgey coating over the bottom of my tank so I scrubbed what I could get to with a soft dish brush and a spray of carby cleaner.

Check the waste fuel for water. Could mean leaky filler gasket or blocked water drain hole.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808
 85 k100rs wont accelerate Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

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