Oil Filter removal

Rickmeister · 1 Oil Filter removal Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:20 am

Rickmeister

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Sorry to hassle the Forummers with inane-ish queries...I've started to use Ryco Z418 oil filters. The fitment/removal tool fits perfectly on the OEM filters, but is a tad (maybe a smidgin) large for the Ryco filter. Today, the tool kept on "slipping" around the filter and it would not budge. Finished up putting a layer of insulation tape on the inside of the tool. This provided enough grip to remove the filter.

What do all you out there who use Ryco filters use to get the thing on and off?

Don't know if it is relevant, or simply coincidence, but since I've started using the Ryco filter, an oil leak has mysteriously appeared out of the front of the oil pan...Spooky!!

charlie99 · 2 Re: Oil Filter removal Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:00 am

charlie99

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its spookey uli

the filter is after the oil pump so could be a little more resistance to flow that has seen the telltale weep occurring ?

it was always going to happen ....just when is the question

Holister · 3 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:52 am

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Ulrich_Grabau wrote:Don't know if it is relevant, or simply coincidence, but since I've started using the Ryco filter, an oil leak has mysteriously appeared out of the front of the oil pan...Spooky!!

Just a wild thought but if its slightly smaller in dia (hence your oem filter tool too big) maybe the Ryco filter is a little longer to get the same filter volume. Could be its coming in contact with the pan and stressing it out of shape just enough to cause a leak under pressure.

Last edited by Kaptain Holister on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

92KK 84WW Olaf · 4 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:09 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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Don't go too tight when putting the new filter on. Filter doesn't need to be more than a good hand tight, as in use the removal tool to tighten it by hand, without the wrench and then a very small tighten?

Holister · 5 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:40 am

Holister

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Haymes recommends finger tight just till it seats then give it a half turn and no more.

Gaz · 6 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:05 am

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Uli, I'm now using the Ryco filters and I haven't had the tool slip on them yet but I think I've only changed one of them on the bikes. My son's Toyota HiLux uses the same filter and I changed one a couple of weeks ago for him with no trouble.

There may be slight differences in the cup tools; my filter tool is a Hazet brand. I'll be doing an oil change on the K75 on the weekend so will take notice when I remove the filter.

Two Wheels Better · 7 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:46 am

Two Wheels Better

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Let's apply some basic maths/science to this. The factory tool (Hazet 2169) is approximately 74mm from flute to flute, of which there are fourteen, and fits snugly on an OEM oil filter. What are the Ryco Z418 measurements?
study

92KK 84WW Olaf · 8 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:27 pm

92KK 84WW Olaf

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So what is the average size of a K riders flute then? I have never measured mine. . . . .

charlie99 · 9 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:55 pm

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I have a stahlwille 3045 adaptor which fits snuggly on the ryco 418 filter
measured at 74.00 mm flat to flat 75.48 flute edge to flute edge
the adaptor has a little flaring from the home- full depth position

if that helps
possibly it just wasn't sitting deep enough on the filter ?

Rick G · 10 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:10 pm

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From memory the ryco 418 has 14 flutes and the OEM has 16 or it may be the other way but I just put a hole in the tool and whack a sharpened bolt through the hole in the tool and into the filter and undo it.

Gaz · 11 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:19 pm

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Hey Rick, I love the simple solutions like yours; after all, the objective is to get the old filter out isn't it.

Cheers

duck · 12 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:39 pm

duck

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I had the flutes between a K oil filter and wrench get stripped on me once because the PO had put it on way too tight. What worked for me was putting some steel wool in the filter wrench and then pounding it onto the filter.

Disclaimer: This does not qualify as the "wrenching tip of the week" but it did work for me.

Point-Seven-five · 13 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:00 am

Point-Seven-five

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I followed a gorilla who did the oil changes on the boats in our marina. The only way I could get the filters he put on unscrewed was to put four sheet metal screws through holes in the wrench's cup into the filter canister. I have seen filters that had to be cut off with a cold chisel because the housing got twisted off by the wrench.

Wrenching tip of the week: "Don't use the goddam wrench to put the f-ing filter on."

Bonus tip: "Put some oil or grease on the friggin' gasket surface."

k75RT Keith · 14 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:50 am

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If it slips, put a piece of sandpaper in the wrench to take up the gap.

Gaz · 15 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:33 am

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Ok All - as promised I have done an oil and filter change on my K75 today. I couldn't remember which brand of oil filter I had used last time I changed the oil in this bike but happily for this discussion the old one was a BMW filter.

So, as suggested by TWB - time for real comparison data between the Ryco Z418 and the BMW filters. My filter tool is apparently the factory one based on TWB post 7.

First up lets count the flats - both have 14. The flats on the BMW filter are more defined.
The Ryco Z418 is 86.4mm long to the top surface of the gasket uncompressed. The BMW filter is 80.5mm long to the top surface of the gasket.

My calipers tell me that the Ryco Z418 is 73.7 mm across the flats. The BMW filter is 74.04 mm (lets call it 74 mm neat). So I thought I would measure the circumferential play of each one or to use a more technical term "slop" when inserted into the tool.
The Ryco Z418 has 7.6 mm play and the BMW filter has 2.4 mm play (see photos below showing range of movement on the circumference of the tool)

The things we do on a Saturday afternoon - hope this is of use to some of you out there.

Cheers

Rick G · 16 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:26 am

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The things we do on a Saturday afternoon - hope this is of use to some of you out there.
Only if you send beer with it.

Holister · 17 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:30 am

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Gaz80 wrote:The Ryco Z418 is 86.4mm long to the top surface of the gasket uncompressed. The BMW filter is 80.5mm long to the top surface of the gasket.

Gaz... good stuff. Thanks. I think the most interesting part of this fine analysis is that it's clear that the Ryco is much longer.

If you look back to the OP (Ulrich) and his problem with the oil leak appearing after using the Ryco (post #1).

My post #3 suggested that there may be a difference in the filter height which could stress the sump plate just enough to crack the seal. I've noticed there's not a lot of clearance from filter to cover plate and the Ryco is nearly 6mm longer. If this is happening it could also fatigue the cover plate over time causing a sudden loss of oil pressure and possibly oil loss (i'm thinking rear wheel) affraid

I would be seriously taking a look at that if you have a Ryco filter installed.

Holister · 18 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:36 am

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I just did a search on the Ryco website and the filter recommended for all K-series engines is RMZ108 which is only 79.5mm in height. And you'll prob find your filter wrench will fit this filter ok.

By my reckoning you're using the wrong filter and your Z418 should be removed ASAP

http://www.rycofilters.com.au/catalogue/application/make/BMW+MOTO/model/K75S/series/

Cheers

Rick G · 19 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:46 am

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The Z418 doesn't touch, it does come to within about 2mm.
That 108 is for the M42 engine in the 318i E36 cars and is the one for the K but they have proved to be somewhat difficult to get at times.

Holister · 20 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:01 am

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Cool. As long as its been checked out and its a known.

Cheers

Gaz · 21 Re: Oil Filter removal Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:43 am

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Hi All, I know this thread is old news now but there may be some people who have lingering concerns about the Ryco Z418 filter being too long to fit the K sump.

Filter change time again today for my K75 so I thought I would take a photo of the filter in the sump before I removed it. My vernier callipers measured 6.3mm from the base of the filter to the machined surface where the cover plate mounts.

charlie99 · 22 Re: Oil Filter removal Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:10 am

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onya gaz ....

thanks for taking the time to measure up and post

good to have a true reference

Holister · 23 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:30 am

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Thanks Gaz
Good to know. Was going to measure that up myself next filter change. Its certainly a good cheaper alternative. About $13 from Supercheap Auto.

Ed · 24 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:07 am

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what fun to be had when changing filters, especially oil.
I've been using the 163 range of filters , in various brands . can anyone enlighten me on the 163 reference?
currently using the K&N brand with the nut on top.
as mentioned earlier , a smeer of oil on the mating surfaces will make things a bit easier during the next change.

be careful when puncturing the filter, as damage can occur to the internal region of the sump.

previous to this ,it was a Hifiltro with no nut, which had to be swayed with a special tool, as shown below

Gaz did you get a chance to check the clearance inside the filter cover plate, for additional space.
btw , when using your best white bath towels , hide all the kitchen knives................ affraid

Gaz · 25 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:41 am

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Ed, I did not try to measure the depth of the depression on the inside of the cover plate (just didn't think of it) but you are right - it would add another mm or so clearance.

Cheers

Gaz · 26 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:43 am

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Glad you asked me that Ed, as it just moved me up to Gold Member.

cheers

Ed · 27 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:46 am

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when fitting the new nut style , I was counting on that depression for added clearance . As Kapt'n said , you don't want added stress on the plate.
Congrats Oil Filter removal 292303

another century and you'll have a full compliment.

Ed · 28 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:50 am

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Rickmeister wrote:
Don't know if it is relevant, or simply coincidence, but since I've started using the Ryco filter, an oil leak has mysteriously appeared out of the front of the oil pan...Spooky!!

Rick , do you think that you may have stressed the pan with an oversized filter?

Rick G · 29 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:54 am

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If in doubt about what I said in post 19 please refer to post 19 Laughing

Inge K. · 30 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:17 am

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Rickmeister wrote:
Don't know if it is relevant, or simply coincidence, but since I've started using the Ryco filter, an oil leak has mysteriously appeared out of the front of the oil pan...Spooky!!

The weep hole to the oil/water pump is in front of the oil pan...........

werewasi · 31 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:50 am

werewasi

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I posted a month ago about a persistent leak from the oil filter cover and was told that if buying a genuine filter, i'd have been supplied with a new 88mm O ring.
I'd used a Z418 and re used the cover O ring. It looked fine and i pulled it off a couple of times to check that it was seated properly.
RT (Bob) sent me an O ring and BINGO - leak stopped completely.

so...............

Rick G · 32 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:13 am

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Inge refers to the oil pan which is the sump cover not just the filter cover.

Holister · 33 Re: Oil Filter removal Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:27 am

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All this just confirms one thing.... You should always keep a few spare rubbers handy Laughing

WoodyAUK75 · 34 Re: Oil Filter removal Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:09 am

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I found some at work which work just fine. they are a little thicker than standard, but as long as they fit in the groove they are ok. I had a problem with an AC Delco filter I bought a while back. When I went to install it, it was too small for the tool, so I put a bit of cardboard in to get it tight. Of course it wouldn't grip when I went to take it out so I had to remove the pan. Not really a big deal, as I usually don't ride for about three months due to it being below zero here, and I use this time off the road to do any maintenance I deem necessary. I am trying to minimize the non riding time of course, as the K is about $50 a week cheaper than the ute on fuel. I have heated grips, which are pretty good, but I have also added hand guards this time to try and lessen the wind chill factor.

Rickmeister · 35 Re: Oil Filter removal Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:13 am

Rickmeister

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Reading this thread...there seems to be an array oil filters which will do the job. A mechanic mate of mine gave me 2 Valvoline 022 oil filters the other day. On the box it says "Interchangeable with Ryco Z418" (which is interchangeable with...) These filters are physically smaller than the Z418, both in diameter and height. Haven't tried it yet, as I'm still off my ankle, but I was wondering if anybody out there in K land has used these. I got them at a v.good price ($0.00)

Thanx.

Ace Handler · 36 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:34 pm

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Gaz wrote:Hi All, I know this thread is old news now but there may be some people who have lingering concerns about the Ryco Z418 filter being too long to fit the K sump.

Filter change time again today for my K75 so I thought I would take a photo of the filter in the sump before I removed it. My vernier callipers measured 6.3mm from the base of the filter to the machined surface where the cover plate mounts.

Intriguing thread as usual. More entertaining than YouTube dash cam vids I dare say...there's a factor here about this overly long filter that hasn't been mentioned - it must expand when it's hot, perhaps enough to push/warp the cover.

I am looking for a schematic of what's going on with this filter ie: why does oil pour out of the filter cover when doing an oil change? Is there a sort of cut-away flow diagram explaining this phenomenon somewhere that I can be directed to? My R12C doesn't have a cover over (under) the filter - and uses the same filter btw. Thanks again for the cheap (for me) education. I REALLY APPRECIATE the countless hours (that can only be chalked up to love interest) all you forumeers put into making this portal so wonderful...beer's on me! Very Happy

Laitch · 37 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:05 pm

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Ace Handler wrote:I am looking for a schematic of what's going on with this filter ie: why does oil pour out of the filter cover when doing an oil change?

Ace Handler · 38 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:36 pm

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Excellent, thanks Laitch! I was just looking through the latest Climer (thanks Rick G) looking for just such a diagram. So, the filter chamber is part of the oil sump...why? Seems like just another spot for oil pressure loss/leakage. That's a rhetorical question - I grasp that intuitively I don't understand enough or I would know the answer to that already Wink

Ace

Last edited by Ace Handler on Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Gees, sorry Rick G - thanked the wrong guy for that the first time 'round ;-))

Laitch · 39 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:57 pm

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Ace Handler wrote:Excellent, thanks Laitch! I was just looking through the latest Climer (thanks CF) looking for just such a diagram. So, the filter chamber is part of the oil sump...why? Seems like just another spot for oil pressure loss/leakage. That's a rhetorical question

I'm a "riding, not rhetoric" adherent.

These diagrams and more are available in the downloadable BMW K75 K100 Workshop Manual at your friendly neighborhood Brickyard.

Oil pressure loss doesn't seem to be a problem with these bikes unless the filter gasket is doubled up during a filter change by somebody who neglected to remove the previous gasket while contemplating the meaning of it all. Smile

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1 Oil Filter removal Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:20 am

Rickmeister

2 Re: Oil Filter removal Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:00 am

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3 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:52 am

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4 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:09 am

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5 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:40 am

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6 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:05 am

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7 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:46 am

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8 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:27 pm

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9 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:55 pm

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11 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:19 pm

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12 Re: Oil Filter removal Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:39 pm

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13 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:00 am

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14 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:50 am

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15 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:33 am

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16 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:26 am

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17 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:30 am

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18 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:36 am

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20 Re: Oil Filter removal Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:01 am

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21 Re: Oil Filter removal Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:43 am

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22 Re: Oil Filter removal Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:10 am

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24 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:07 am

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25 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:41 am

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26 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:43 am

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27 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:46 am

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28 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:50 am

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29 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:54 am

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30 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:17 am

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31 Re: Oil Filter removal Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:50 am

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33 Re: Oil Filter removal Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:27 am

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34 Re: Oil Filter removal Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:09 am

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39 Re: Oil Filter removal Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:57 pm

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