Laitch wrote:

costellon wrote:Update: Replaced temp switching relay with a known working unit and same result - no fan or light when E pin is grounded. Anyone care to comment or offer any advice ?
Thanks

What is the problem you're trying to diagnose, or the goal of your testing?

Thank you for your reply Laitch.

I will begin again. During normal operation I have no cooling fan or temperature light. Grounding the wire at the coolant sensor should cause the fan to rotate and light to illuminate - but it doesnt. This wire comes from pin E on the temperature sensing relay.

As I have explained in my previous posts - the fan spins when I put positive power to pin A2 on the temperature sensing relay - so THATS getting power and functioning, also the temperature light illuminates when I ground pin A3 to earth, so THATS also working ..... but - and this is the important "but" - when I ground pin E of the temperature sensing relay I get nothing - when I should have the fan spinning and the temperature light illuminated.

According to the title of this thread - that should be indicitive of a bad temp sensing relay - but I have swapped the relay out with 2 unknown and 1 fully functioning relay - and still I neither have a fan spinning or light lit when I ground pin E ....... THAT IS - My cooling fan and temperature light do not function when the engine goes above normal operating temperature and my bike will boil over if I allow it to run when stationary - why is this happening and how do I fix it ?

If when grounding pin E and nothing happens re fan and/ or light is indicitive of a bad relay - and I have changed said relay with a fully functioning unit why are my light and fan still inoperable on grounding pin E ???? The problem is quite obviously not the relay but something else ..... but what ???? 

Pin E on the temp sensing relay is dead as a dodo - why ?

Thankings

Did you use PTFE tape by any chance?

Is it safe to assume you have 12v on pin 9 of the temperature relay?

When you ground the pin E are you doing it at the terminal on the relay socket or at the actual terminal on the relay? I wonder if you might have a problem in the relay socket. That would explain all the other relays not working.

Is there 12v at pin 15 of the temperature relay?

Does putting 12v at pin A2 of the temperature relay socket turn on the fan?

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:Did you use PTFE tape by any chance?

Thanks for the reply, I get where you are coming from but as I am testing at pin E on the relay  - I am by-passing the coolant sensor and should be getting a result. Essentially, pin E is the wire to the sensor - and i'm grounding it to earth

Point-Seven-five wrote:Is it safe to assume you have 12v on pin 9 of the temperature relay?  

When you ground the pin E are you doing it at the terminal on the relay socket or at the actual terminal on the relay?  I wonder if you might have a problem in the relay socket.  That would explain all the other relays not working.

Is there 12v at pin 15 of the temperature relay?  

Does putting 12v at pin A2 of the temperature relay socket turn on the fan?

Thanks for the reply

Tests so far:
+ to A2 turns the fan on (ignition on or off) - so yes to "Does putting 12v at pin A2 of the temperature relay socket turn on the fan?"
15 to A2 turns the fan on (ignition on or off) - so I presume that there is 12v @ pin 15 ("Is there 12v at pin 15 of the temperature relay?")
- to A3 illuminates the red temperature dash light (ignition on only)
- to E does nothing

"When you ground the pin E are you doing it at the terminal on the relay socket or at the actual terminal on the relay?  I wonder if you might have a problem in the relay socket.  That would explain all the other relays not working." - I have been testing at both

I'll check pin 9 tomorrow evening, thanks again

Point-Seven-five wrote:Is it safe to assume you have 12v on pin 9 of the temperature relay?  

When you ground the pin E are you doing it at the terminal on the relay socket or at the actual terminal on the relay?  I wonder if you might have a problem in the relay socket.  That would explain all the other relays not working.

Is there 12v at pin 15 of the temperature relay?  

Does putting 12v at pin A2 of the temperature relay socket turn on the fan?

Apologies, work has been hectic. I finally found the time to dig the K out of the back of the workshop and test pin 9 on the temp relay - i'm getting MINUS .15 volts - ignition on or off, also, there's no voltage at the 2nd last fuse from the bottom, I have 12v at pin 30 of the FI relay ...
Thanks

This is a stupid question perhaps - but should I be conducting these tests with the engine running ?

I seem to remember something from years ago with another K that I had whereby fuse 6 had no power until the starter button is pressed and the engine started ..... is this the case ?

Thanks

You're right. Engine must be running so power is at fuse 6.

I've read that if the computer senses that the engine is overheated it will deny the start button request. That might explain the baffling test results at pin E. So I'm with Olaf to check for a good connection at the temperature sensor, and the sensor itself.

You might have a power fail at pin 9, or an earth fail at 31. With a fused jumper wire between 31 and A3, the temperature light should glow. If so your earth is good.

Although some drawings show the fuses supplied from the left, I believe they are supplied from the right, that might explain why you read -0.15V.

On my brick with the ignition on, fuel pump unplugged, temperature sensing unit unplugged, fuse 6 removed, fuel injection relay unplugged, and a fused jumper wire between 30 and 87b (as in the photo) of the fuel injection relay, I'm reading 0.19V on my multimeter with the red probe on the right socket where fuse 6 was, and the black probe on the left. Reversing the probes gave me -0.18V. So I think your reading of -0.15 is OK, I'm assuming your tank and sensing unit were unplugged, plus the other mentioned assumptions.

If you read 12V after this test, you have a short in the wiring.

Important, remove the fuse first, and remove the jumper wire as soon as the test is finished.

A few things I forgot to mention.

My test results were the same as yours, so grounding E didn't cause the fan or light to come on, so I think that's normal.

Repeating the earlier test with fuse 6 replaced, bridging 9 and A2 should also turn the fan on, confirming power to 9 is good, as Point-Seven-Five earlier asked.

If these input test results are good, I think they will be, I'm guessing it's the temperature sensor that's the problem.

One test result was different though. You say bridging 15 to A2 turns the fan on, with ignition on or off. That didn't work for me with the ignition off. That makes me think your load shed relay is stuck on, if so the headlight won't cut out while cranking. Probably Not your main problem, but something to look at while you're there.

Finally got the time to put the tank back on, fuel it up and START THE ENGINE.
Low and behold - when I ground pin E on the temperature sensor relay - both the temperature warning light and the fan come on.

So, to put it another way, if the bike isnt running - grounding pin E wont do anything. Either the starter button has to be pressed or the engine has to be running in order to energize fuse 6 - which then feeds the fuel injection relay which then feeds pin E on the temperature sensing relay.

To anyone conducting the test on pin E that the Author described - do so with the engine running.

Sincere thanks to all for your contributions, advice and time

Be well

OK, so grounding pin E with the engine running turned the fan on,  but will the temperature sensor turn the fan on with the engine running  when it gets too hot,  have you verified that yet?

"Why is this happening and how do I fix it"

I think all your symptoms are consistent with a faulty temperature sensor signal. I'd test the temperature sensor.

For starters at the female plug (loom side) of the fuel injection computer, with the engine cold (say 20 Celsius)  you should read about 2.5 kOhms, between pin 10 and earth (pin 13 is also earth) At normal operating temperature about 300 ohms.

daveyson wrote:OK, so grounding pin E with the engine running turned the fan on,  but will the temperature sensor turn the fan on with the engine running  when it gets too hot,  have you verified that yet?

"Why is this happening and how do I fix it"

I think all your symptoms are consistent with a faulty temperature sensor signal. I'd test the temperature sensor.

For starters at the female plug (loom side) of the fuel injection computer, with the engine cold (say 20 Celsius)  you should read about 2.5 kOhms, between pin 10 and earth (pin 13 is also earth) At normal operating temperature about 300 ohms.

Thanks Daveyson for another helpful and informative post. I actually changed the temperature sensor in mid November with a known working unit off one of my other K's. The old one tested faulty AND was installed with ptfe tape.

I have not had time to take it up to operating temperature and test the circuit in the real world yet but will do so when the presssure at work eases off - at least now the mystery of "pin E" has been resolved.

Every evening after work I only have 2 hours in which to cook, eat, update my correspondence and tend to my chores before sleep.
I'll get back to the bike next week hopefully.

Thanks again, be well

OK, got it. As a side issue, next time you crank it, might be worth looking to see that headlight cuts out.

Hi all

Had to replace a couple of fuel hoses which meant taking out the air box. Now with lots of room time to (again) have a go at the fan system...

Have already replaced with OEM sensor (but checking on receipts 2016!)
I have gone through the checklist:
1. Jumper 31 and A3. Temp Over Warning Light works nicely.
2.Jumper 15 and A2 fan works nicely.
3.Temp Probe Test:
    3.1 At temp probe itself resistance is approx 10.6 to both terminals on 20K setting.
    3.2 There is continuity between the wires i.e. two socket pins and Pin #10 on the socket of the EFI unit. And the E female relay connector plug.
    3.3 When I plug the sensor plug and socket back together I get the same 10.6 reading between: (E female relay and earth) AND between (Pin #10 and earth). The EFI #10 Pin has continuity back to the #9 Female socket
    3.4 Plug EFI back together. I get (approx) same 10.6 reading between (E female relay and earth). BUT no reading between (#9 female socket and earth) or (#9  female socket and E Pin). Turning ignition on/off makes no difference.
    
I live in a small town in Western Australia and none of my riding is in traffic. I can't remember the fan coming on, overheat light or a feeling of the bike being hot. Coolant is perfect. I have a niggling feeling I just don't get the bike hot? But my concern is that I don't get a resistance reading from #9 female relay.  The way I read the cooling fan information from this forum is that I should get a resistance reading between E and #9 pin.

When I do all my relay socket testing I take it the relay is actually removed? Or do you have the relay plugged in and take the readings from the back of the female plastic socket?

Any advice to show me where I am going wrong?

Regards

Mal

Mal if fuse 6 is blown or just open circuit then that will prevent a reading from E to pin 9. Use a meter to check the fuse I see many of those blade fuses look good but don't work.

Hi Rick

thanks for the reply. I checked the fuse link and it was all ok. I still can't get a reading between #9 and E pin.

Have lost interest and put everything back together. I am recleaning the RH switch gear and new starter button. Hopefully I will get the bike hot and see if the fan comes on...
Regards

Mal

costellon wrote:

Laitch wrote:

costellon wrote:Update: Replaced temp switching relay with a known working unit and same result - no fan or light when E pin is grounded. Anyone care to comment or offer any advice ?
Thanks

What is the problem you're trying to diagnose, or the goal of your testing?

Thank you for your reply Laitch.

I will begin again. During normal operation I have no cooling fan or temperature light. Grounding the wire at the coolant sensor should cause the fan to rotate and light to illuminate - but it doesnt. This wire comes from pin E on the temperature sensing relay.

As I have explained in my previous posts - the fan spins when I put positive power to pin A2 on the temperature sensing relay - so THATS getting power and functioning, also the temperature light illuminates when I ground pin A3 to earth, so THATS also working ..... but - and this is the important "but" - when I ground pin E of the temperature sensing relay I get nothing - when I should have the fan spinning and the temperature light illuminated.

According to the title of this thread - that should be indicitive of a bad temp sensing relay - but I have swapped the relay out with 2 unknown and 1 fully functioning relay - and still I neither have a fan spinning or light lit when I ground pin E ....... THAT IS - My cooling fan and temperature light do not function when the engine goes above normal operating temperature and my bike will boil over if I allow it to run when stationary - why is this happening and how do I fix it ?

If when grounding pin E and nothing happens re fan and/ or light is indicitive of a bad relay - and I have changed said relay with a fully functioning unit why are my light and fan still inoperable on grounding pin E ???? The problem is quite obviously not the relay but something else ..... but what ???? 

Pin E on the temp sensing relay is dead as a dodo - why ?

Thankings

Reading through various posts, the above explains my exact problem with my newly acquired K75s. I have manually connected the relay/module and it works. (supply 12V+ to Pin 9 and Neg to E. The relay comes in) But once plugged in with confirmed 12V at Pin 9 and grounding E the relay does not pull in. 

The fan is working when shorting 15 and A2 and the light is working when shorting A3 and 31.

Is there any further info on this? What am I missing?

Rolf E wrote:



Is there any further info on this? What am I missing?

Yep, I think your missing the help that was suggested after the post that you quoted.

The relay clicks when you provide it with power and earth, but it doesn't click when you plug it in. It sounds like it's either not getting power or it's not getting earth when it's plugged in. I'm guessing you confirmed it's getting power on the harness side of the plug, maybe have a good look at the plug.

Thanks Dave, it's back to basics. I'll go and re-check everything.

And yes I must have missed the suggestions because it looked like the end of the trail for me. Did that post go on, or perhaps elsewhere?

Rolf E wrote:The relay comes in) But once plugged in with confirmed 12V at Pin 9 and grounding E the relay does not pull in. 

Is there any further info on this? What am I missing?

Are you grounding Pin E while the engine is running? Try that.

Ha ha Laitch, I eventually got there last night. Only when the motor is actually running does it work. I went through checking every connection step by step. The temp sensor relay pin #9 is powered from the fuel injection relay and that relay only engages when the motor is actually running. If the motor stalls then the FI relay deactivates.

Thanks for the help and now I have peace of mind that should i do slow mountain passes on a hot day the cooling fan will do what it supposed to do without a manual switch.  

Tomorrow I am off on a trip to the Eastern Cape, doing the mountain passes with 5 other guys.

Have a blessed day!!