220,000kms + engine ...what would you do?

floyd · 1 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 am

floyd

Life time member

Number of posts : 868

So what would you do if you found your self with a K100 with 220,000kms on the clock. You have NO IDEA of the service history or previous life of the machine, but have a soft spot in your heart for it and are keen to give it a 2nd life....

Its running and in fact you have even ridden it down the road and back, but its making a god awful, very loud rattling sound at idle that seems to be coming from low down at the front. My best guess is its a very slack timing chain, so a new kit is on the way.

Full fluids change (oils, lubes, coolant etc), full general service (filters, plugs etc)...

I guess the following would be a good start?
- pressure/compression test? This would give an indication of ring and/or bore condition?
- valve clearance check and adjustment
- get the injectors ultrasonically cleaned
- perhaps get the alternator refurbished
- give the wiring a once over
- check all splines and lube em up nice

- what else? anything particular to these motors that seems to go if proper maintenance is not followed?

Thank you ladies and gents for your infinite patience with us mere mortals, and your vast generosity and knowledge of all things K

charlie99 · 2 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:43 am

charlie99

VIP

Number of posts : 11701

Floyd you have the same disease as most of us ......

but for the machine ....
the probability of the output shaft having rivet issues is high ...along with the thrust washer issue behind the clutch basket (as has been found in here kinda recently ) its a sound transfer from the rear of the motor that makes it sound as though its from the front ....or cam chain

you will need to do the oil pump rejuvenation path and old deteriorating seals through there ....I really don't thing its a wear issue ...more an age issue ...

I wouldn't give up hope just for this reason

if you check out albys latest post about re redoing the output shaft you could be on a winner .

some of us don't care about the rattle till it lets go ...but being anal erm to a degree I guess we all want this problem solved .

your list is spot on for any motor ...to breath new life into the old girl ...but

consider all things rubber to be past it ...yes that means all the intake path along with any fuel rubber piping ...
those bottom (to the head rubbers are quite expensive ....but not an unachievable cost for most) .

luckily I have found some still good ones ...im guessing its primarily the top rubbers that crack from the vibrations of running the beast (and quite affordable all the same )

I recon ride the girl and get acquainted ,,,then solve issues in a timely and affordably planned manner .

good luck mate

we love our old girls

btw if you are getting the cam chain kit ....the chain tensioner is not an expensive item ...you may find like me that the anti rotate assembly mechanism has become rounded off over the years and could do with a replacement .....but unblock the oil pressure port leading to that mechanism and internally to the mechanism ....I have seen 3 now nearly or completely blocked . (just a heads up )

Guest · 3 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:09 am

Guest

Floyd,

It's a good move to stick the year and model of your KBike in your signature. That's in your profile someplace.

I have a shim lifting tool and a few old shims I can send you for a loan/swap.

If the cam chain is really bad it will leave marks inside the front cover. If the noises go away when it warms up it maybe the offset gears on the counterbalance shaft which you may learn to live with or it maybe the rivets on the output shaft itself. Loose rivets will wine when decelerating. Both can sound like chain noise when cold. It's a lot of work to fix either of them as they are really inside the motor.

They are pretty easy to pull apart and work on but get yourself a 3/8 tension wrench and a set of allen head bits to suit if you don't have them already. My allen bits fit a 10mm socket and I have 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" tension wrenches which cover all the tensions listed in the manual. I really only use the 1/2" wrench on the rear wheel nuts.

I think a compression test is a great idea but after that, fix the worst noise first Smile

Last edited by RobinW on Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

martyman · 4 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:14 pm

martyman

Silver member

Number of posts : 141

find a wreck to take parts from...but resist trying to fix the wrecked bike.

floyd · 5 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:45 pm

floyd

Life time member

Number of posts : 868

Thankin ya kindly gentlemen....

I will start a build post in the new year so you can follow along with my escapades, as I do yours, and ill up date my signature presently with bike info...

In summary, the bike in question is a 1984 K100RS.

But I have 3 bikes, this is just in the most complete an original state, so it seems like a good place to start....

I also have a 1986 K100LT that is completely dismantled, and I mean completely (can you smell the broken dreams?)
And a 1985 K100RS.

These will both be donner bikes.

The frame of the 1986 has been repainted to a decent standard so I think ill start stripping the 84, fixing what I need to on the way, and rebuild it into the 86 frame using as many of the good bits from all bikes as possible to keep costs down. Also wanna get a 1100 front end for it.

The 85 onwards had the 12 rivet output shaft, no? Maybe I can raid the best one ive got and fit it to the 84 motor. And the 85 had hotter cams? Is that correct?

Now heres the part where you convince me to go on....
Im $1800 into it for the 3 bikes. In hind sight, thats a bit on the high side, but hey, sometimes naivety can be fun. That includes delivery and unloading, so not to bad...
If I can put another 2k-3k into it (including EVERYTHING [I'll be doing the vast majority of labour myself]) and have a good runner, of which I know basically everything about, the state of all parts and components etc etc, have everything thats needs to be overhauled, rebuilt etc etc and basically a nice, albiet high mileage runner that will treat me well for another 200,000kms...That is somewhat 'custom' and is mine mine mine, plus all the fun (nay, blood) that goes into such a process, well, thats a good outcome....

Is it even slightly realistic?... I mean, I know I could have gone out and spent 4k-5k on a already decent runner, but where is the fun in that? Also, the romantic in me desperatly loves the idea of breathing new life into these retired old dogs and taking them around the world Wink

Rant over,

Regards,

Floyd

martyman · 6 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:59 pm

martyman

Silver member

Number of posts : 141

Post pics of all the bikes for us to see what you have...

RT · 7 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:48 pm

RT

Life time member

Number of posts : 1925

Hi Floyd
I have an 85 RT which I have tried to refurbish, and it has served me really well. It is extremely comfortable for me and apart from a boil over caused by a broken fan and a failed shock, I have had no trouble and lots of fun
kilometers.( lots of wet scary ones lately as well.)

I also have bought at a too high price an 90 LT with the exact symptoms you describe. I have replaced all rubber lines and cleaned her up at she is now running. Can't ride it on the road yet as the steering head bearing
or something in that area wobbles horribly. It has 235,000 klm on it. When I finally got her to start, the feeling of satisfaction was immense. So my advice is go for it, there are some who will say that it is just run in.

Have fun. (was just through Mudgee last week with Ulrich, didn't realise you were there.)

RT

floyd · 8 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:03 pm

floyd

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Number of posts : 868

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floyd · 9 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:10 pm

floyd

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Number of posts : 868

220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Me_rid10

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martyman · 10 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:24 pm

martyman

Silver member

Number of posts : 141

It's Donor LOL, Donner was The Donner Party was a California Trail wagon train of American pioneers who in 1846 found themselves trapped by snow in the Sierra Nevada. Thirty-six members of the party perished as a result of starvation, exposure, disease, and trauma, and some of the survivors resorted to cannibalism

I would pick the lowest KM engine and take the head to a shop to have new piston and rings in?

floyd · 11 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:45 pm

floyd

Life time member

Number of posts : 868

martyman wrote:It's Donor LOL, Donner was The Donner Party was a California Trail wagon train of American pioneers who in 1846 found themselves trapped by snow in the Sierra Nevada. Thirty-six members of the party perished as a result of starvation, exposure, disease, and trauma, and some of the survivors resorted to cannibalism

I would pick the lowest KM engine and take the head to a shop to have new piston and rings in?

heheh noted and changed martyman....definatly would be a bad omen to continue with that spelling in my signature

The 3 engines all have about the same KMs on them...

Just pulled down the 86 hoping to find a 12 rivet output shaft....alas, no doughnut.

floyd · 12 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:49 am

floyd

Life time member

Number of posts : 868

charlie99 wrote:Floyd you have the same disease as most of us ......

but for the machine ....
the probability of the output shaft having rivet issues is high ...along with the thrust washer issue behind the clutch basket (as has been found in here kinda recently ) its a sound transfer from the rear of the motor that makes it sound as though its from the front ....or cam chain

you will need to do the oil pump rejuvenation path and old deteriorating seals through there ....I really don't thing its a wear issue ...more an age issue ...

I wouldn't give up hope just for this reason

if you check out albys latest post about re redoing the output shaft you could be on a winner .

some of us don't care about the rattle till it lets go ...but being anal erm to a degree I guess we all want this problem solved .

your list is spot on for any motor ...to breath new life into the old girl ...but

consider all things rubber to be past it ...yes that means all the intake path along with any fuel rubber piping ...
those bottom (to the head rubbers are quite expensive ....but not an unachievable cost for most) .

luckily I have found some still good ones ...im guessing its primarily the top rubbers that crack from the vibrations of running the beast (and quite affordable all the same )

I recon ride the girl and get acquainted ,,,then solve issues in a timely and affordably planned manner .

good luck mate

we love our old girls

btw if you are getting the cam chain kit ....the chain tensioner is not an expensive item ...you may find like me that the anti rotate assembly mechanism has become rounded off over the years and could do with a replacement .....but unblock the oil pressure port leading to that mechanism and internally to the mechanism ....I have seen 3 now nearly or completely blocked . (just a heads up )

Thank you Charlie for your constantly good info and knowledge.

Have you got any links or further info regarding the " the thrust washer issue behind the clutch basket "

Cheers mate,

Floyd

charlie99 · 13 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:10 am

charlie99

VIP

Number of posts : 11701

ill look around floyd its kinda complicated

maybe I can find the original post ...with the clutch noise ..without the gearbox on,,, was a hell of a racket (was a video of the noise )
the solve was the trust washer ...I believe

else you can use the "search" feature
you might do better at finding it than me ...tonight ...

floyd · 14 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:26 am

floyd

Life time member

Number of posts : 868

Yesterday I cheekily read an article of Classic Motorcycle Mag (or something similar...) at the newsagency.

There was a K75 that had more then a million kms (infact approaching 2 mil) on the clock.

220000 is nothing! Wink

Rick G · 15 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:15 am

Rick G

admin

Number of posts : 12058

I have an engine here that has over 400k on it and is still quite useable so at 220k just change the oil and keep going.

Jez · 16 Thrust washer thread Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:02 pm

Jez

Silver member

Number of posts : 161

Hey Floyd,

Here's that thread on the thrust washer behind the clutch, I think this is what you're after, I replaced mine and the difference was amazing. Mind you I'm easily amazed with any mechanical success.

https://www.k100-forum.com/t6518-flywheel-clutch-housing

Jez.

floyd · 17 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:49 am

floyd

Life time member

Number of posts : 868

martyman wrote:It's Donor LOL, Donner was The Donner Party was a California Trail wagon train of American pioneers who in 1846 found themselves trapped by snow in the Sierra Nevada. Thirty-six members of the party perished as a result of starvation, exposure, disease, and trauma, and some of the survivors resorted to cannibalism

I would pick the lowest KM engine and take the head to a shop to have new piston and rings in?

(once again, the forum wont let me post putside the 'quote bubble'...from here on out is my words (floyd), not martyman's above....)

So while working (planting fruit trees, feeding chooks, moving sheep through their cell grazing pattern, watering vegies, feeding ducks, etc etc) I love listening to audio books (im a big reader, so being able to 'read' while working is wonderful). Yesterday I finished "Dr. Sleep" by Stephen King, which is the recently released sequel to "The Shining". Id only ever seen the Kubrick film, which I loved (all things Kubrick are simply BRILLIANT in my mind...) and had heard that ol' mate King wasnt so happy with the the screen adaptation of his work, so I decided that "The Shining" was next on my list of audio book while working...

And so today it began....and there were at least 3 mentions and descriptions of the "Donner Party" hehe nasty shite.

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1 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 am

floyd

2 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:43 am

charlie99

3 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:09 am

Guest

4 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:14 pm

martyman

5 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:45 pm

floyd

6 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:59 pm

martyman

7 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:48 pm

RT

8 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:03 pm

floyd

9 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:10 pm

floyd

10 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:24 pm

martyman

11 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:45 pm

floyd

12 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:49 am

floyd

13 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:10 am

charlie99

14 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:26 am

floyd

15 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:15 am

Rick G

16 Thrust washer thread Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:02 pm

Jez

17 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do? Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:49 am

floyd

18 Re: 220,000kms + engine ...what would you do?

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