Going to test the fuses tonight, put a cap of gas in the cylinders to see if it kicks when I turn it over. Pretty sure it's getting fuel as the plugs smell like gas and the fuel pump clicks when I switch it off -- might empty gas to see if I see the gas whirling in the tank. Could also cancel out the side stand switch. Any other ideas for my evening adventure?

Need more info.
How do you know its sparking?
Did it kick when turned over?
Fuses are easily checked. Always check the easy (cheap) stuff first.
I'm sure with the combined brainpower  on the forum it will be solved.

No, don't pour fuel into the cylinders, the bike will flood and not start, remove plugs leave overnight, refit plugs check that all fuel has evaporated.
Question - how do you know the injectors are working?

Comberjohn wrote:Need more info.
How do you know its sparking?
Did it kick when turned over?
Fuses are easily checked. Always check the easy (cheap) stuff first.
I'm sure with the combined brainpower  on the forum it will be solved.

Got spark, grounded a plug while in the wire. Should probably check the other three plugs. There was no kick. Yet   Thanks Comberjohn!

Thanks ungass. A few squirts of gas in the cylinders to be certain that that pump is working and plugs are getting gas. The plugs were a bit damp last time I turned the key. But not wet/soaked with gas. Has sat for 7 months drove like a champ before that, injectors working? No idea. I guess I could always get them reconditioned if all other tests fail. Keep you posted!

Fresh gas? If the fuel has been sitting for seven months it may have gone off. They put some strange stuff in it these days.
If it was going before I don't see it being serious. I would try a fresh tank of gas and a new set of plugs and take it from there.

Stupid question....

You said that you had the bike seating for 7 months. Did you have to remove the battery to recharge it?
If it's the case, before doing anything else, you should check the EFI connection under the tool box(If this is a 2 valves engine).
Just remove the plug and clip it back.

Don't ask me how I know that  

CF

I'll put $10 on bad fuel for the win.

My money is on Comberjohn and Crazy Frog. Bad gas, check those connections, possibly new plugs. And make sure battery has full charge or you may fry the starter relay.....

Delighted too to see CF safely back from France....its a lovely place you were in. I hope you made it to Bordeaux too.

Crazy Frog wrote:Stupid question....

You said that you had the bike seating for 7 months. Did you have to remove the battery to recharge it?
If it's the case, before doing anything else, you should check the EFI connection under the tool box(If this is a 2 valves engine).
Just remove the plug and clip it back.

Don't ask me how I know that  

CF

Thanks CF! It's a 4V, but yes I removed the battery for charge. Might fully charge it however I notice it's not completely charged. I could also clean all the connections to cut that out of the equation.

Good suggestions everyone! Thanks.

Got new Bosch plugs. I put stabilizer in the gas when stored however that shouldn't cause any issues and I use premium gas when I fill it for what it's worth, but...maybe the gas got gummy near the pump/filter, I might empty it and put new fuel in. I may also cut the sidestand switch and see if that's the culprit, never liked it anyway!

I've double checked all the grounds too. And I imagine it wouldn't even turn over if one was disconnected. I only removed 7 grounds? (two ABS, battery, starter x4) when I originally removed the transmission to replace all the seals. Hmmm

Update: Popped a tester on the Fuses and they're good. Noticed my battery isn't fully charged so I've got that charging. Getting 120 compression at the first cylinder which is on the low side so says the manual. Also noticed my fuel rail is looking old, will inspect closer but it appears to have a minor crack in it and it's a bit wet with gas at one end. Have a replacement just haven't got around to doing it. Not sure if this would cause it to not start, but might cause uneven firing hence the one blackened end on my muffler pipes.

Noob question, I just got an analog multimeter and I'm not too versed with the electrics and would like to learn. I see AC on one side DC on the other and 10 - 250v for both...could post a picture but I'm sure they're all the same. Can somebody tell me which setting I test the battery and which for everything else? I want to check power to the side stand, fuses, and anything else that comes up. And I could see really having some fun with this thing once I get started  

Thanks for the input.

HERE IT IS

Check out the guide by K-Bike.

rossko wrote:HERE IT IS

Check out the guide by K-Bike.

 Sweeet! Thanks Rossko.

Thought I was getting gas to the plugs, guess I wasn't afterall because when I unhooked the feeder hose from the gas tank it just dribbled out. Nothing in the return hose at all. So I hooked a hose from the feeder and ran it inside the tank to see if it pumped at all, no dice. Once I get a proper digital multi-meter that reads 12v properly I'll be testing the power supply to the pump. Failing that, it looks like a new pump is in order.

Might be worth thinking about the fuel pressure regulator - I had similar issues with my K100.  Problem is that it's a PITA to get to which is why I left it until last in my diagnostics.  I wish I had gone with my gut instincts and saved myself a whole heap of aggravation

Also check the four pole connector to the tank, very often the reason to a non
function fuel pump is found here.
You should hear your fuel pump running for a couple of seconds, when you turn
on the ignition.

aye inge !

Inge K. wrote:Also check the four pole connector to the tank, very often the reason to a non
function fuel pump is found here.
You should hear your fuel pump running for a couple of seconds, when you turn
on the ignition.

Thanks Inge, it's next on the agenda.

I know it fits a K75 but does anyone know whether a FEP2042 Facet Fuel Pump fits a K100rs? 

Okay I feel really stupid asking this. I finally got my digital multimeter and I'm trying to test the power to the fuel pump, I put the neg to the frame and the pos to one of the four female prongs, have it set to 2K OHms resistance...that's as far as I got. I'm not sure what the proper procedure is or what reading I'm supposed to get. Please enlighten the electrical noob in me. Thanks!

Set the meter on 20V DC range. Plug the black lead into COM port
Plug the red lead into V/F (can't see your exact meter) could be just V should be a red port

Connect the black lead to the negative Battery cable or any known good ground.

connect the red probe to the post in the plug socket to the tank that has the GREEN/White wire.

With it connected, turn the IGN & Kill switches to the run position.

Cycle the starter with the green starter button. GREEN/WHITE circuit should show 12V or whatever your battery voltage happens to be at the moment, for about 1 1/2 seconds.

Before this test....the primary test would be to connect the tank plug and cycle the starter & just listen in the fill hole for the pump to run momentarily.

Regards, Ibjman

TSBT wrote:Okay I feel really stupid asking this. I finally got my digital multimeter and I'm trying to test the power to the fuel pump, I put the neg to the frame and the pos to one of the four female prongs, have it set to 2K OHms resistance...that's as far as I got. I'm not sure what the proper procedure is or what reading I'm supposed to get. Please enlighten the electrical noob in me. Thanks!

 We are not all elektrikal wizards (me included) so don't feel bad.
Check out THIS how to.

It might seem completely obvious to most people, but start with something simple.

Read the first two lines of ibjman's post, then
Put the black lead on the negative battery terminal and the red on the positive.
If it shows something like 12-14v then you have the correct setting for checking the power on the fuel pump.
Then follow the rest of ibjman's post.

I know this is a very simple approach, but if you have no idea how to use a multimeter as when I first picked one up they are as confusing as hell.

Thanks Rossko......Couldn't have done it w/out you.....LOL

(No matter how detailed I try to write a description, I always leave SOMETHING out)!

Regards, Ibjman

TSBT wrote:

Inge K. wrote:Also check the four pole connector to the tank, very often the reason to a non
function fuel pump is found here.
You should hear your fuel pump running for a couple of seconds, when you turn
on the ignition.

Thanks Inge, it's next on the agenda.

I know it fits a K75 but does anyone know whether a FEP2042 Facet Fuel Pump fits a K100rs? 

 If it fits a K75 then it fits a K100. They both run the L-Jetronic injection.

RicK G wrote:

TSBT wrote:

Inge K. wrote:Also check the four pole connector to the tank, very often the reason to a non
function fuel pump is found here.
You should hear your fuel pump running for a couple of seconds, when you turn
on the ignition.

Thanks Inge, it's next on the agenda.

I know it fits a K75 but does anyone know whether a FEP2042 Facet Fuel Pump fits a K100rs? 

 If it fits a K75 then it fits a K100. They both run the L-Jetronic injection.

 Perfect. Thanks Rick.

Finally got back into the shed today and am slowly making progress. So I'm getting a decent reading at my battery - set it to DC V like the instructions I read - and you gentlemen had suggested. 



After that I used the same setting DC, left the neg on the battery, plugged a paperclip into the green wire on the fuel pump, alligator clipped it and turned the bike over. This is where it gets weird:




Was expecting to see 12V but I got a slew of numbers...makes me wonder if I've got it on the right setting, or she's fried somewhere along the line, thoughts?

Perhaps I was using the wrong diagram for your model. I see you have the fuel pump connector at the R/rear where I was using an early K100 print where the fuel connector is at the l/front.

Perhaps I sent you to the wrong wire?

The wire you want might probably be routed back to the load side of fuse #6????


It won't hurt to make the identical test on the other 3 wire posts till you find the correct read. One will read 12V as soon as you touch it. It will probably be tan and connected to ground.

of the last 2 untested wires.......one would go to the fuel gauge variable sliding resister and may be the one you found.
I'm guessing that the forth one would go also to the fuel gauge sender....to the low fuel level switch that is to turn on the warning lamp. My guess is that I steered you to the fuel gauge wire in error. Sorry.   

I'll be interested to see what you find.

We are assuming here that the fuel pump was not able to be heard running at the moment the starter was engaged before you took this apart, right???

Regards, Ibj...

The problem there is that the digital meter cant respond quickly to a change and the first reading you show is .7##volt and the next is 323.2 milli volt which is as good as zero in this circumstance
What is happening is that the ign is turned on then for 1.5 sec the 12volt is applied to the green wire and if the hall sensors dont put out a signal (the engine isnt running) the moronic cuts the 12V to the fuel pump and injectors.
In the 1.5 sec the meter tries to respond but cant do it quickly enough so gives some eroneous readings then the moronic cuts the 12V and it goes back to .323V which is an ambient voltage in the system and occurs for a multitude of reasons but usually earth connections that arent quite perfect.
Best check of does the pump work is to hook it all up and turn the kill switch on and of a few times and if the pump starts each time the kill is turned on then the circuit is OK. A meter with a needle (analogue) is better as you see a swing of the needle to about 12V
The fuel pump should pump a good flow in the 1.5 sec and will be seen as a return to the tank. If you have the flap under the filler remove the cap assy (4 x screws) and you will see the flow of fuel in front of the opening at the very top of the tank.

To do a definate test on the pump connect a wire from the neg/earth to the brown wire of the cable that is on the tank and positive from the battery to the Green/white wire on the same cable and the pump should start and pump a good flow of fuel. If its a no go reverse the connection for a couple of seconds as that will run the pump backwards and may dislodge some crud then connect the right way and test again if the pump still don't pump feed it to a dumpster and put a new pump in and test it by pluging it into the harness and turn the kill on and off a few times.
The pumps can be taken apart but in my opinion they just arent worth the time.

Glad to see you're feeling better Rick, as usual, great explanation.
I think we are assuming here that the fuel pump isn't working...hence the need to test????

Or have I missed something.
Regards, Ibj...

Chris said earlier on he was only getting a dribble from the delivery line at the rail.

Thanks Ibjman. Thanks Rick. Appreciate all your insights.

Rick, is there risk of arching if I attach wires direct from battery to tank plug (green, brown), I ask because the wires would be only millimeters apart plugged in at the cable. Of course if I strip wire so there's nothing bare exposed, should be cool right? I've heard some have tried putting same wires in the tank attaching direct to pump. Seems riskier to me - pulling the pump out of the tank to test would make more sense. Anyway.


Just being cautious.

There is a risk of the wires touching and arcing but even if they did it wont do any damage  to the pump and as it is disconnected from the main wiring harness nor to the bike electronics. Just be cautious.
As for connecting it inside the tank don't try it unless your auto club is prepared to recover your bike from orbit.

RicK G wrote:There is a risk of the wires touching and arcing but even if they did it wont do any damage  to the pump and as it is disconnected from the main wiring harness nor to the bike electronics. Just be cautious.
As for connecting it inside the tank don't try it unless your auto club is prepared to recover your bike from orbit.

 
Had some luck. After fiddling with the wires connected to the battery following Ricks suggestion, a few sparks later and the pump kicked in spraying the bucket I had under the fuel line exiting the tank. Thanks for that Rick.

Fuse is good. Pump is good. Obviously the fuel filter is good -- unless like Krambo suggested it's the fuel pump regulator -- the only other thing thing left to check would be the fuel pump relay, which seems a bit more complicated than the surgery I just performed. Can anyone share a few words of wisdom on that front? I would appreciate it.

Maybe you have just dislodged a stuck or rusted fuel pump as Rick suggested.

Before making any more checks, I would suggest making sure all the foreign material has been removed from the tank, fresh fuel (only) is in the tank and see if it starts up.

It may not be necessary to test the fuel relay if the pump will start normally through the factory harness.

I would be checking the regulator as you did say only a dribble at the return. Or even lines that are swollen inside because the incorrect quality has been used or just age related.
Bite the bullet and pull the airbox out and get at the regulator and lines easily.

RicK G wrote:I would be checking the regulator as you did say only a dribble at the return. Or even lines that are swollen inside because the incorrect quality has been used or just age related.
Bite the bullet and pull the airbox out and get at the regulator and lines easily.

Thanks Ibjman. Might reverse the polarity to dislodge any crud to be sure.

Thanks Rick, how does one check a regulator? I got new hoses last summer I've been meaning to replace also noticed the return line to the tank is cracked so that'll be replaced. Good opportunity to get in there anyway.

...as the summer slowly slips away. 

Disconnect it and check the flow which I believe is good then connect it and the flow should be almost as much but the pressure lower and if you only get a dribble then feed it to a dumpster and get a new one from EME
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=fuel+regulator

RicK G wrote:Disconnect it and check the flow which I believe is good then connect it and the flow should be almost as much but the pressure lower and if you only get a dribble then feed it to a dumpster and get a new one from EME
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=fuel+regulator

Thanks Rick! I have a dumpster right across the road. Nothing will make me happier than tossing it if it's on the fritz. Thanks for the link and thanks again, I shall keep you posted.

If I did your test correctly Rick, I had the line running from the tank/pump directly into the side of my fuel regulator, the blue arrow points to where I attached it



Attached neg/pos wires from the battery like before into the plug on the tank. The pump ran but nothing was coming out. Pulled the hose and there was a lot of pressure so there was quite a burst. 

Dumpster time?

Wrong way round the tube on the side is the outlet which goes to the fuel rail and injectors so the pump gets connected to the tube on the end.

RicK G wrote:Wrong way round the tube on the side is the outlet which goes to the fuel rail and injectors so the pump gets connected to the tube on the end.

 Oops, let me try that again.

Wait.

The port he was showing on the side is the pressure port from the injector rail, is it not?

The port on the top (opposite the vacuum line) is the return line to the tank.

The fuel pump connected to the port he is showing with the blue arrow should be the one from the pump since he does not have the fuel rail hooked up. He should get fuel out the top port, providing the fact that the pump is capable of generating sufficient pressure to cause the regulator to open. Give me a moment to verify my facts

You have it connected correctly. The port with the blue arrow on the side is the pressure port which is (indirectly fed from the pump via the fuel injector rail. After the fuel goes through the rail and around the back into the regulator IN port, the regulator supplies the needed "restriction" for the pump to build pressure against. Once the specified pressure is achieved, the regulator overcomes it's internal spring pressure and modulates partially opening to bypass some of the pressurized fuel back to the "return" port in the tank.

Additionally, applying vacuum to the small pipe at the bottom of the regulator, helps the fuel pressure to overcome the spring pressure thus lowering the pressure required from the pump/rail to bypass fuel back to the tank.

It appears to me that EITHER the pump pressure is insufficient to overcome the regulator setting OR the regulator could be plugged or otherwise defective.

You need an actual 0-100psi pressure gauge in the line between the pump and the regulator to properly diagnose this.
Regards, Ibjman

Thanks Ibjman, you had me stumped. That's the same diagram from my Clymers, however my regulator is on it's side just crosschecked the K100RS4V manual which describes the layout as such



Rick, you're saying it's the fuel line (in blue) from the pump. Red being the return to the tank from the fuel rail, correct?

Really appreciate your help guys, I promise you I'll get to the bottom of these shenanigans.

I'm sorry. From the original photo, I failed to understand that you had a newer model.  The regulator in your newest illustration does not appear to have a vacuum line running to it at all. I don't understand that, but I'm guessing that rick will explain it for me. Also in the illustration in the lower right at the end of the fuel rail, there appears to be a pulsation dampener that I did not know about.
 I can't remember what rick told you now.....but I would guess that you couldn't hurt in the testing phase by reversing the fuel line connections to see which way it might work?
Regards, Ibjman

Chris ibj is correct the fuel goes in the side of the FPR and out the top back to the tank.
We were all talking from our own perspective and I actually went out to my shed and had a look at my spare K1100 engine with injection still attached but it is not the same either. Talk about a cockup.

Now that is sorted it looks like you have a cactus FPR if there is no flow at all.

If you have access to a pressure gauge it would pay to do a quick check of pressures in the system and flow because it is very easy to say where there is pressure there is flow.
You said the pump really unloaded when tested but have you checked it with the FPR out of the circuit to make sure the flow is unimpeded.
What I am thinking is if some of the lining of a hose has come away and clogged the FPR then it is possible it has also clogged the system elsewhere.

RicK G wrote:Chris ibj is correct the fuel goes in the side of the FPR and out the top back to the tank.
We were all talking from our own perspective and I actually went out to my shed and had a look at my spare K1100 engine with injection still attached but it is not the same either. Talk about a cockup.

Now that is sorted it looks like you have a cactus FPR if there is no flow at all.

If you have access to a pressure gauge it would pay to do a quick check of pressures in the system and flow because it is very easy to say where there is pressure there is flow.
You said the pump really unloaded when tested but have you checked it with the FPR out of the circuit to make sure the flow is unimpeded.
What I am thinking is if some of the lining of a hose has come away and clogged the FPR then it is possible it has also clogged the system elsewhere.

Thanks Rick, Gremlins! I'll check the pressure going in. Return hose is starting to crack but it's minor. Nothing on this bike looks old, it was well kept before I got it. Knowing the pump pressure however would tell me if my pump is miffed. Have to get a fitting so I can tap into the line...kind of useful having a spare K1100 engine yet USA, Australia and Germany may have mucked around with the arrangement, you can see where my reg came off here, for what it's worth. You can probably see a ridiculous leak at my rad hose, but we won't go there. One thing at at time. Pft. 

You can see in person what we can't via picture.  The green gooey stuff under the hose could be actually coming out of the temperature switch or just dripping down slowly from the end of the hose.

The aluminum housing that the hose connects to likely has a big amount of corrosion at the point the hose connects. Possibly an easy fix as long as you are already right in there.  Pretty easy to put a pan under the water pump and drain off the coolant. Or just loosen the lower end of the hose that comes down through the crankcase cover and twist it loose there.  Once the coolants out, then you can carefully remove the end of the leaker......clean up the aluminum with some light sandpaper, also clean the corrosion debris from the inside of the hose and put it back on. Far from a permanent repair, but enough to get you going while you sort out the rest of the items.

Back to the fuel pump/reg.  It would seem logical that if the pump pressure is below about 35 psi that the regulator might not let any get by. Another test would be that while you have the pressure on the regulator to pull a vacuum on the vacuum line port......that might allow the regulator to open. Either way.....though you should have like 50 -60 pounds pressure from the pump, enough to open the regulator at any vacuum level.

You could peer into the inlet of the regulator with a light and see if you see "stuff" in there??? (long shot, I guess).
 From our experience, the fuel pump is often more likely than the regulator to be the failed point, but not always.
Regards, Ibj...

I'll throw down $10 CAD ($9 USD) on sealed up injectors.  Had the same issues, ran good before, then took it apart for a refurb.  Injectors sat for several months, dried up and sealed up so tight even Indiana Jones couldn't have got back in.  No amount of cleaning would open them back up.  Bought a refurbed set of Ford truck injectors and she flashed straight up with a look of 'what took you so long?'

I'll take that bet (PayPal).

Although you may win in the long run on the injector bet, I'm betting against you.

We know he has no fuel pressure through the regulator. I'm betting my $9 US that once he has a proper fuel pump/regulator combo sorted out, you'll owe me the $$$$
Regards, Ibj...

I aint gonna bet one brass rarzoo (australianism for money in any form or amount). I still remember the long drawn out process we had with Krambo's bike and it ended up being the FPR.

Where's your sporting sense Rick?  I'm betting for either the FPR or the pump (or both). I'm only betting against stuck injectors.  A pretty good bet????

You know, he could just bypass the FPR altogether just for testing and see if it'll start up at full fuel pump pressure. It should run well at say 60 psi if not smoke a bit at idle?????

Regards, Ibj...