Hi Guys

My K100 has decided not to start, the ignition lights
are all illuminated, the battery has life but when I push the starter
button....Nada..nothing ..not even a whimper. I tried putting power to
the starter direct and this turned the engine over, so I guess it must
be an electrical problem somewhere.

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP please I posted this in engine and tranny problems but just figured out it should be here...Crazy Frog has given me some tips but so far...not working.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I had similar problem last week with my K100RT but it had had intermittent problem for a while starting after many tries. I thought it might be a starter motor problem so I stripped the starter motor and clean the brush connection but to no avail. I did have a look at the starter button this evening and clean the connection be dismantling the starter switch gear and cleaning it with button connections. On putting it together again it worked fine. This shows that a collection of dirt limited the contact area on the starter button resulting in the bike not starting when the button is pressed as applying power directly to the starter motor show the issue is with the starter button.

If this does not cure it I will suggest you check the basics as well like none of the fuses are blown.

Regards

Sojelade

Hi Sojelade

Thanks for the tip I will try that out tomorrow and let you know if it worked.

I did check the fuses, they all seem OK.
Mike

You an find a good document (in German) but with a lot of pictures in the download section (under the electrical section).

Bert

Hi Mike,
I guess you have tried all the obvious ones like kill switch not clicked over have you tried a test light the ones with a wire with a croc clip on the end which you clip to a good earth and the other to probe, just to see if when you try to start if any power is getting to the starter relay.
Regards,
K-BIKE

Here are some pictures of the K100 wiring and relay box, if you can help by letting me know which bits are relevant I would appreciate it.
Mike

Mike, the starter relay coils is the orange plug on the back relay (beside the green flasher unit).

You should visit the download page as there is a nice drawing of the layout of the electrical box .

Bert

Thanks Bert

When I put the tester on this I get a reading of .33volts and when I push the starter button nothing changes, I tried holding the clutch in to see if this made a reading change but

No power coming to the start relay.

Whats next

Hi Mike,

Have you dismantle and check the starter button assembly yet ? if you are not getting anything at the relay when you press the starter button I will try checking and cleaning the contacts int the start assembly first. I might be wrong but I spent some time looking everywhere else like you before I came back to check it. Take screw 3 out and you can see the connection on the back of 2. Clean the contact as dust can accumulate in there which was what my problem was.






Cheers

Sojelade

Sojelade

Thank you for the diagram I will try this next and I will let you know how I get on.
Regards

Mike

Again, the download page has pictures of the procedure to open the right handle bars switch. This is in German but the author has done a very nice job and pictures of the step by step dismantling should be enough for you to accomplish the task.

By the way, this is nice to see Soji (Sojelade) back among us. He did an awesome renovation on his K100.
Bert

Hi Mike,

Another thing to check just out of interest is do you have 12V on the front (high current) terminal of the starter relay with just the ignition on. On mine it was low due to poor contacts in the ignition switch and causing all sorts of grief.

I believe that is the 12V line from the load shed relay which drops out when the starter engages.

Essentially you need clutch switch, or neutral switch, ignition switch and kill switch all to be working perfectly before the starter relay will engage properly.

Regards,

Phil

Phil
Today I will be checking all these things...fingers crossed

Hi
I took off the starter push button and cleaned up all the connections, I connected the tester to the 2 power connections at the back and the voltage showed just over 1 volt as in the picture, when I pushed the starter button this dropped to Zero...? I then tested the voltage with the clutch pulled in and the voltage went to just over 2 volts but still zero'd when I pushed the starter.

Does this give anyone a clear picture of what is wrong?

This is the starter push out of the unit

This is the rear view of the starter in the unit
This is a close up of the 2 wires that the starter push contacts with when pushed

This is the voltage across those 2 wire with the ignition on

The zero reading is what happens when I push the starter button

Phil

I checked the voltage at the starter relay it showed 11.53 volts.

Finally a good news story, I checked and took apart every connection on the bike and tried the starter, then I checked the one shown and
Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! she turned over.

I would like to say that I now know more about my K100 than I did before.
Thanks to all for their help and patience, I can now sit down and enjoy my lunch.

Hold it a minute, thats not the shirt you wore doing all that work!!

Hi Bruce
You should have seen the 4 other shirts I was wearing... ..oily rags now.

You just cannot get enough decent cloth for cleaning your bike can you!

I would like a few tips on cleaning the metal on this bike to make it look a bit more respectable.

My K1 will not start, it just back fires once or twice and then nothing, help!

Can you let us know what you have already checked on the bike?
Ignition, fuel supply, air filter ?

MikeK100 wrote:
I would like a few tips on cleaning the metal on this bike to make it look a bit more respectable.

You need a lot of elbow grease, a big box of steel wool pads and you can use brushes like this:

Crazy Frog
What is this elbow grease ? Can I buy it locally?

My mum always said you just need elbow grease, apparently they had shed loads of it in her youth, just roll your sleeves up and use some elbow grease. I never could find the tin, I looked all over the house for it as a child and when I was tired of looking I would sit staring at the television in the hope that I would see it advertised so at least I knew what it looked like.

She used to say to me...." You won't find it sitting there watching the TV, I said back to her " Is that a clue" This was usually followed by a clip round the ear. I had a confusing youth spent looking for that elusive tin.

:pirat:

MikeK100 wrote:Crazy Frog
What is this elbow grease ? Can I buy it locally?
:pirat:

Mike,

I guess that you didn't have internet when you grew up .

Elbow grease comes in different forms and container shapes:
The liquid form

or the paste


Now it's time to start cleaning.

I also use products to clean aluminum rims on cars. Usually, these products contain acid and have to be rinced right away.

Bert

Bert

I am glad to see that such a well talked about but rarely seen product has a tin for the mans stuff...

The womens elbow grease is in drop form, I guess we men need to smother the product on in a manly way perhaps with the aid of a power tool (with fast speed setting and hammer switch) whilst the ladies just add a drop to a bucket of water and a light sponge.

You are right I come from a time before the internet, a time when if you wanted help with your bike problems you just asked your dad and with a 1/2 inch spanner he could fix anything from your toy car to your first real car and everything in between. A time when people fixed things and knew how to...................hey are you guys here from the past? Have I reached into the internet connection to 1960's.

It would make a very cool film and we now have a script......just need £3millionquid to get it started!

Who would be in the leading role ?

I learned one thing through my problem and it is one that everyone should take note of, the thing everyone here tells you and on any other forums.

This tip will cure most of your problems.

When you first get your bike, take apart and clean every connection on your bike. Clean them and add a small amount of vaseline it will save you a lot of trouble later.

Clean...clean...and protect those connections because pound to a pinch of salt that will be the problem.

MikeK100 wrote:I learned one thing through my problem and it is one that everyone should take note of, the thing everyone here tells you and on any other forums.

This tip will cure most of your problems.

When you first get your bike, take apart and clean every connection on your bike. Clean them and add a small amount of vaseline it will save you a lot of trouble later.

Clean...clean...and protect those connections because pound to a pinch of salt that will be the problem.

Back to your elbow grease?
Clean Clean Clean..... Your wife must be a good coach

Yes we are things of the past. We reverse engineering in order to comprehend problems. We try to fix it too!
Just check the poll that I started. We are people mostly born in the early 60s or before.
I learned so much from my father. A smart guy who did not have the opportunity to go to school because of the war. He was a maintenance person (Jack of all trades, master of none) working for the power corporation. At 50 years old he decided to learn electronic on its own. This was just for fun as he never expected to be promoted for this effort.
The best thing that he thought me was learn, be interested, and work hard. Becoming rich is not the purpose, being happy and proud of your accomplishment is the goal.
Yes fixing a toy with a 1/2" spanner is the best education that you can pass to your kids. Sharing the knowledge and interest is the key.

We are mostly old geezers but smart geezers.

Cheers

Bert

If you are saying you get a small voltage across the switch contacts that is one issue, the second of it going to zero when you push the button is correct with tthe measurement across the switch it should go to zero when you push the button. Next question is why is it so low?
Have you traced backwards to see whenre the voltage drops from 12 volts down to 2 volts?
Regards,
K-BIKE

Hi K-Bike
Thanks you were spot on with your logical approach, if you look at the top of the picture in this thread of me eating in celebration, you will see a thumbnail picture of the offending connection.

Phew! My bike is up and running and I just loved the moment when it sprung into life.....thanks for your help.

Bert
You are so right, I came off the chassis production line in 1953 I was the fifth model out (youngest). By the time they got to producing my model they had perfected all the little faults they had built into the other models .

I remember my dad showing me how to take the dynamo out of his 1950's sit up and beg Ford, taking out the brushes and either cleaning them lightly with fine sand paper or replacing them. Also cleaning the carbon build up between the small coils of copper wire. Setting up the contact points so that the spark would be ok. Adjusting the tappet clearance and fixing the brakes. On really cold wintry days I would be asked to go and crank the old car over using the starter handle. Being shown how to hold onto the handle so that if it sprang back it would not break my thumb.....and failing that pushing the car off down the road for a bump start. Cold but looking back some of the happiest days of my life...kismet

It is probably why I still just get stuck in and start jobs without reading a manual, my dad gave me the confidence to try in the first place.....sometimes we had to push but this was not seen as a failure, just a success if the engine started and my dad remembered to put a clothes peg on the choke pull to hold it out .

I remember when my kids were young and I spent a day with them trying to fix an old computer they were amazed that I would open up the mystery box and several hours later it was running again. They have done the same many times and they are both now very good at messing about with computers.

Reading books is great but there is no better way than rolling up your sleeves and having a go at it. How many times have you said " The engineer who made this thing has never thought about working on it or he would have not made it that way?

To anyone reading this that is a bit scared to have a go, I suggest they buy an old K100 this bike is a fantastic piece of engineering that you can work on and the parts are easily available. I have had a couple of Honda Pan Europeans and trust me the K100 is a far better bike to ride and work on.