Oil/water pump seals replacement

Rick G · 51 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:29 pm

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MT350Explorer wrote:Thanks. Do you know Rick when I posted this up I thought - I bet I've done something wrong! Better to find out now than later
Cheers
Dave

It's a easy mistake to make because when you look at it you see it as being the inside of the pump but it's only the inside of the coolant pump.
I just had a mental picture of you waist deep in snow desperately making your way to the dealer only to be told it wont be in till next week now because of all the ice and snow.

MT350Explorer · 52 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:44 pm

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Rick G wrote:

MT350Explorer wrote:Thanks. Do you know Rick when I posted this up I thought - I bet I've done something wrong! Better to find out now than later
Cheers
Dave

It's a easy mistake to make because when you look at it you see it as being the inside of the pump but it's only the inside of the coolant pump.
I just had a mental picture of you waist deep in snow desperately making your way to the dealer only to be told it wont be in till next week now because of all the ice and snow.

Cheers Rick. Nothing so dramatic mate; nearest Motorad is a days round trip from here and you can bet they wouldn't have it. Snow has actually come to very little but temp not risen above freezing all day and ice is everywhere. Safe to say my 'hero pants' are staying in the drawer - Motorworks all the way.

MT350Explorer · 53 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:12 pm

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Round 2. New oil and water seals in place, and shaft pulled through both.

Question Guys. Should the main oil gear be flush with the face of the pump body or slightly recessed?

Thanks

Dave

MT350Explorer · 54 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:47 pm

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Think I've answered my own question - it's in the 'How to' section guide Bert uploaded and says

"pull the shaft until the gear comes flush with the casing.
If you pull the shaft beyond this point, you take the chance to break the
ceramic seal."

ReneZ · 55 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:16 pm

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Going great buddy!!

MT350Explorer · 56 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:45 am

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Cheers Rene mate - hope the preparations for Florida are progressing well.

All back together now. Will post photos later. Going to leave overnight before refilling oil and water. Yikes! :pale:

Cheers

Dave

MT350Explorer · 57 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:41 pm

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For anyone else giving this a go the photo below shows the oil seal inserted the WRONG way round

WRONG

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Oil_se11

The photo below shows the seal inserted the RIGHT way round

RIGHT

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Right10

K-BIKE · 58 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:27 pm

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Good on you Dave for posting the two pictures showing right and wrong, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words and this whole thread with pictures is worth a lot more.
Regards,
K-BIKE

MT350Explorer · 59 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:53 pm

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Cheers K-BIKE.

I have just filled up coolant and oil and idled her for 15 minutes plus a few twists of the throttle. Unfortunately snow and ice here so no run out is possible. I am not an optimist but so far she is holding oil and water. I may not know the whole truth until March!

One odd thing - I would expect the coolant temp to be up to halfway plus after a 15 minute idle but having changed the temp sensor on the pump body it only just got up to the top of the 'blue'. I wonder if the 'new' sensor is reading wrong or if the cold weather and fresh coolant are having an effect. Oh well, wait and see what a run brings. Old and new (fitted) in this pic - look very similar if not identical.

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Water_13

Here's the sealant I used and thinly applied to the pump face - it's grey so hard to see. Good, gloopy, sticky stuff.

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Sealan10

Here's the reinstalled pump with a fair few new allen bolts. No prizes for guessing which of the old water pump cover plate bolts was the stubborn one!

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Done10

Cheers

Dave

Inge K. · 60 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:33 pm

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It could have been a good idea to apply some sealant (sparingly) on the yellow marked area, as the red dot is the oil return from the pressure relief valve.

But you could be lucky....if it weeps oil from this area, in march.........you know why.

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Pumpe10

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Pumpe10

MT350Explorer · 61 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:51 pm

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Yes Inge, I thought that too shortly after I'd fitted it and for that reason nearly didn't put that picture up! My gaff, I blindly followed my interpretation of the Clymer sealant diagram which I didn't think showed sealant here.

Is the oil return from the pressure relief valve under much pressure?

Cheers

Dave

Inge K. · 62 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:15 pm

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MT350Explorer wrote:Is the oil return from the pressure relief valve under much pressure?

No idea,...about much volume of oil which normally is returned via this channel, but it is rather narrow at the sump side....so it isn't that much volume is needed to build up some pressure.

A lot have experienced a leak here, but often caused by getting sealant into the channel at the sump side (that's why I mentioned sparingly).

My oldest K also did start to leak at this spot when it was 4-5 years old, just out of the blue.

MT350Explorer · 63 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:31 pm

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Thanks Inge. It would be inconvenient if it leaks but taking it apart and resealing it now I've done it once it wouldn't actually be that big a deal.

EDIT. I just can't figure this oil flow out around the relief valve. The small square hole Inge indicated with a red dot - it will be torqued against the flush face of sump - so no oil can flow through it? The 'half moon' channel is on the other side. Is it a blind channel?

Cheers

Dave

Inge K. · 64 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:21 pm

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If you intend to pull the pump again,....I would also used some sealant around the weep hole channel.

Under normal conditions a very small amount of oil/coolant would seek it's way past the seals now and then.

It's only a aesthetic question...but I wouldn't be that pleased if this joint sweats liquid...and the rest of the pump stays completly dry on the outside.

Inge K. · 65 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:25 pm

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MT350Explorer wrote:The 'half moon' channel is on the other side. Is it a blind channel?

The half moon is the return to the sump,.....which often is blocked if to much sealant is used.

MT350Explorer · 66 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:42 pm

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Inge K. wrote:

MT350Explorer wrote:The 'half moon' channel is on the other side. Is it a blind channel?

The half moon is the return to the sump,.....which often is blocked if to much sealant is used.

Can you explain a bit further please Inge?

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Sealan11

When the pump is in place I am thinking the green spot above would be where the 'half moon' return to the sump is connected to the curved channel I've marked with solid red arrows. Is this correct? Is the curved channel connected with the square hole I've marked in yellow? If so where does fluids in the square hole flow to or from?

Inge K. · 67 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:00 pm

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Sorry, my mistake...did mix it up with the earlier pump which got a square hole at both sides.

And have to blame the beer for not to be able to think left/right.....mirror image.......hick. drunken

MT350Explorer · 68 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:24 pm

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No worries Inge! My brain can't cope with any more oil/water pump tonight - thanks for your posts, maybe I'll understand it all by the morning. Very Happy

Cheers

Dave

MT350Explorer · 69 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:26 am

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Well it just had to come off again didn't it? Very Happy

More gasket around that square oil channel thingy- just to be sure. Quite tricky putting this gloop on really thin. Anyway all bolted back on now. Can the torque of 6 lb/ft for the securing bolts really hold the pump on?! Shocked

Wairting for new coolant temp sensor before filling up with coolant. Looks like the 8V and 16V ahave different sensors.

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Second10

Cheers
Dave

charlie99 · 70 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:07 am

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fingers crossed for you dave ...

and yeah it is hard to hold off slathering it with sealant ....just the slightest smear is all you need .

klompy the grey brick · 71 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:31 pm

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Apparently a small amount is sufficient...I overcame the almost uncrollable urge to make a gasket and all turned out well....by the way there are 2 different sensors for the 2V one for the gauge and another for the fan and overheat light...this one is hidden way better and looks totally different.

MT350Explorer · 72 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:22 pm

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Cheers Charlie - I reckon she'll be fine, thanks!
Yeah klompy do you mean the one behind the radiator, yes it's way different? On bikes with a temperature gauge there are two sensors on the oil/water pump housing; oil pressure and coolant temp. The 2V and 4V coolant temp sensors are apparently different (but look very, very similar) if Motorworks webpage is to be believed - different part numbers. I mistakenly bought a 2V one and it does not work. So either they are different parts as indicated or they're actually the same and the used sennor I bought is duff!
Cheers
Dave

Inge K. · 73 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:12 pm

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MT350Explorer wrote:The 2V and 4V coolant temp sensors are apparently different (but look very, very similar) if Motorworks webpage is to be believed - different part numbers. I mistakenly bought a 2V one and it does not work. So either they are different parts as indicated or they're actually the same and the used sennor I bought is duff!

This have always been a mystery to me, since the instrument and its related wiring is similar on all models.

But the different sensor colour indicates a different resistance working area.

MT350Explorer · 74 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:53 pm

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AAAAhhhhGhhh they sent the wrong part! Phoned and hopefully more luck this time.

Yes Inge the 16 V is black if you buy a new one and the 8 V blue. Odd thing is my old one was blue but a replacement blue one does not work so my blue must actually be black. Go figure Surprised

?!

sidecar paul · 75 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:09 pm

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So, this year's blue is black?????

MT350Explorer · 76 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:13 pm

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Apparently so Paul! It's the latest cool (ant) accessory Shocked

Cheers
Dave

MT350Explorer · 77 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:52 am

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Now I really am losing my sense of humour.

New coolant sensor arrived and as I tightened it (no torque given I could find in any manual so I went for 10NM) it has sheared off in the pump body. The sensor seems to me to be much lighter construction than the old one. Anyway, how do I get the stub out please? Photo below.

Thanks

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Disast10

MT350Explorer · 78 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:57 am

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Here's the other part

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Disast11

charlie99 · 79 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:58 am

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oh ! bugga dave ....you have had another experience huh ?

an easy out would work ....if you could find the right size ...its only brass after all

MT350Explorer · 80 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:09 am

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Cheers Charlie I'll look for a set on Ebay
And be asking for a free replacement sensor
Cheers
Dave

charlie99 · 81 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:16 am

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Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 44271

good luck !

hope things change mate ,,,,sends you a virtual stubbie of beer to cool off and celebrate the season ,,,oops make that a dozen ...grin

perhaps you could turn it out by hand or a levered (unwound ) by a screwdriver .....it shouldnt be ...that tight after all

MT350Explorer · 82 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:01 am

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It actually came out with my fingers! Didn't think of that Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 44271

That's all chances of a Christmas holiday ride out of the window - as you say Charlie, Bugga!

Cheers
Dave

Inge K. · 83 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:12 am

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Congrats, nice that something is easy done.......after all the setbacks.

BTW. The torque for the sensor is 9 Nm.........but still surprised that it did break at 10 Nm......

MT350Explorer · 84 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:20 am

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Thanks Inge, I will make sure I go for 9 NM!
I might put a bolt in the hole for now so I can fill up coolant and it's ready for a ride if the weather dries up.
New sensor seems to me to be made of monkey metal compared to the old one - no weight to it, maybe they're all like that or maybe this is a pattern part.
Cheers
Dave

Inge K. · 85 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:29 am

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MT350Explorer wrote:I might put a bolt in the hole for now so I can fill up coolant and it's ready for a ride if the weather dries up.

Beware that it is fine pitch metric threads.....12 x 1.5 mm.

MT350Explorer · 86 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:36 am

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Good point Inge, thanks. Probably better leving it rather than risk chewing up the threads.
Cheers Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 502531

Dave

Rick G · 87 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 am

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You can screw a spark plug in there and tell them it's the new 5 cyl model

MT350Explorer · 88 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:42 am

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Rick G wrote:You can screw a spark plug in there and tell them it's the new 5 cyl model

Yeah, maybe fill the cooling system with petrol and stick an HT lead on it!

Rick G · 89 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:50 am

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Don't forget to turn the movie camera on I think it would come in a close second to the time Top Gear put a stick of Dynamite under a Harley. Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 44271

Inge K. · 90 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:54 am

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MT350Explorer wrote:Thanks Inge, I will make sure I go for 9 NM!

Or even bit lower....as you mention that the newer sensor probably have less material in the walls.
To be shure that it stays with a lower torque, you could use some blue Loctite.

The manual specs the same torque for the drain plug and the sensor.... and written when the sensors wasn't that fragile?

BTW. Is it a genuine Bosch sensor?

MT350Explorer · 91 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:07 am

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Inge K. wrote:

MT350Explorer wrote:Thanks Inge, I will make sure I go for 9 NM!

Or even bit lower....as you mention that the newer sensor probably have less material in the walls.
To be shure that it stays with a lower torque, you could use some blue Loctite.

The manual specs the same torque for the drain plug and the sensor.... and written when the sensors wasn't that fragile?

BTW. Is it a genuine Bosch sensor?

Thanks good advice Inge. I don't know if it's Bosch, it has no markings at all, no numbers, letters etc - it's from Motor Works. I notice the photo on the MotoBins site of the same component has some letters or numbers stamped on the bolt faces so looks diffferent but don't know which is Bosch - if either. If Works don't give me a refunbd I'll buy the Bins one and see.

Inge K. · 92 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:09 am

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MT350Explorer wrote:

Rick G wrote:You can screw a spark plug in there and tell them it's the new 5 cyl model

Yeah, maybe fill the cooling system with petrol and stick an HT lead on it!

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Rocket10

Inge K. · 93 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:16 am

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MT350Explorer wrote: Thanks good advice Inge. I don't know if it's Bosch, it has no markings at all, no numbers, letters etc - it's from Motor Works. I notice the photo on the MotoBins site of the same component has some letters or numbers stamped on the bolt faces so looks diffferent but don't know which is Bosch - if either. If Works don't give me a refunbd I'll buy the Bins one and see.

As it got no markings at all, I would guess that it isn't a genuine Bosch sensor at all.

Probably a cheap copy from chinaland. Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Kinese10

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Kinese10

K-BIKE · 94 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:05 pm

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Sad to say I am positive Inge is right, in my experience Bosch always put numbers and letters plus usually a symbol on their bits.
Regards,
K-BIKE

MT350Explorer · 95 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:15 pm

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Yeah interesting Inge, K-BIKE. I phoned BMW Motorad and the price is the same so that may yet be my best option.

ReneZ · 96 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:54 pm

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Sorry to see your problems! I use a motobins sensor (with letters/numbers on it) and a VDO gauge and its spot-on.
Re the stubb still in there, can you warm it up with a burner so it goes soft and then turn it out with some pliers? A left tap won't work as the material is too thin/soft. There is a bottom in there? Push a big screwdriver through and try to unscrew it like that??

MT350Explorer · 97 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:30 pm

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Hi Rene

No worries! It came out easily enough - by hand!

Looks like Motorworks are replacing it at no cost.

Hope the prep for the big move is going OK? Have a Happy Christmas

Cheers
Dave

88 · 98 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:06 pm

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Jeez Dave ....just caught up on the thread, are you having fun yet? If the sensor hadn't kept you indoors the weather would by the looks of the forecast. Persistence always wins out!

88

MT350Explorer · 99 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:43 pm

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Cheers 88, yeah it's no sweat really; this time of year the weather is either rubbish or I'm feeling a touch jaded! The MT is really the winter hack anyway - a good winter bike.

Cheers
Dave

MT350Explorer · **100** Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:36 am

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All done now. Tested today - only 6 degrees celsius and slimy roads and getting dark so didn't go far but the pump is holding oil and water and the temp is reading correctly. Phew! Thanks for the help Guys.

Oil/water pump seals replacement - Page 2 Finish10

Better go and wash that salt off, grease up those exhaust studs and stick the belly pan on!
Happy New Year cheers

Dave

88 · **101** Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:50 pm

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Good result Dave! Ready for action anytime now cheers

88

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Production date	1984 / 07
Engine	0513)

51 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:29 pm

Rick G

52 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:44 pm

MT350Explorer

53 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:12 pm

MT350Explorer

54 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:47 pm

MT350Explorer

55 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:16 pm

ReneZ

56 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:45 am

MT350Explorer

57 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:41 pm

MT350Explorer

58 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:27 pm

K-BIKE

59 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:53 pm

MT350Explorer

60 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:33 pm

Inge K.

61 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:51 pm

MT350Explorer

62 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:15 pm

Inge K.

63 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:31 pm

MT350Explorer

64 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:21 pm

Inge K.

65 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:25 pm

Inge K.

66 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:42 pm

MT350Explorer

67 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:00 pm

Inge K.

68 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:24 pm

MT350Explorer

69 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:26 am

MT350Explorer

70 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:07 am

charlie99

71 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:31 pm

klompy the grey brick

72 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:22 pm

MT350Explorer

73 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:12 pm

Inge K.

74 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:53 pm

MT350Explorer

75 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:09 pm

sidecar paul

76 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:13 pm

MT350Explorer

77 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:52 am

MT350Explorer

78 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:57 am

MT350Explorer

79 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:58 am

charlie99

80 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:09 am

MT350Explorer

81 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:16 am

charlie99

82 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:01 am

MT350Explorer

83 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:12 am

Inge K.

84 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:20 am

MT350Explorer

85 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:29 am

Inge K.

86 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:36 am

MT350Explorer

87 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 am

Rick G

88 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:42 am

MT350Explorer

89 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:50 am

Rick G

90 Re: Oil/water pump seals replacement Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:54 am

Inge K.