Hi all. Been a few weeks now since I fixed the cooling system. I thought I would post a picture of the bike since I did a few changes to it. I added a pair of bug eye headlights, some CB600 indicators and Suzy B-King mirrors which I got from Stafford bike show last week, and a stainless rad grill I had made up. Its no where near finished yet. I also have the belly pan to fit but it needs painting. The bike wont be on the road untill next year now as its getting to cold for me to work in the garage. But come spring I expect it to be road-worthy. It should look OK considering it was a total write off.





Not everyones cup of tea, but I like it so far.

Cheers


Dave

woohoo ...getting there dirk .

just a touch of advice .

get relays for those headlights mate .

one of our local guys did a similar mod and measured the voltage at the headlamps at 9.something volts

the main issue is the wiring and switches on the headlight controls .

hope that helps

charlie99 wrote:woohoo ...getting there dirk .

just a touch of advice .

get relays for those headlights mate .

one of our local guys did a similar mod and measured the voltage at the headlamps at 9.something volts

the main issue is the wiring and switches on the headlight controls .

hope that helps

Yes funny you mention that.....

I thought about that and I fitted two SPST relays in the main headlamp connector, then a separate feed from the +12V supply to the switched contacts of the relays. Strangely though on DIP beam, and ONLY dip beam, I had a reduced voltage. Yet the feed to main beam was at full supply volts. I though at first I had possibly a faulty relay so I changed them for others. I still had the same result. Yet.. pull the relays and plug in the headlamp direct straight into the headlamp socket and its just fine. Now I know its not MY wiring or relays, just couldn't figure out what was going on why I would only have a reduced headlamp only on dip beam.

Is there something I am missing here on this bikes headlamp circuitry? The relays are all new and have been swapped out, twice. The wire rating is well in excess of what it needs to be. I also made sure I had a sound and clean earth return to the frame.

yep that flash switch does some strange things

Here is the proper way to upgrade to relays. (Full size schematic is available on the download page)



CF

I would guess it`s a problem with the low beam relay power feed wiring and/or related connectors.

To isolate the problem I would measured the voltage at relay power input, output and bulb connector.....with low beam on.

CF

Here is the proper way to upgrade to relays. (Full size schematic is available on the download page)

Yes thanks for that, I actually took a look at and printed that off a few weeks ago.

Still finding my way around the bike and not really wanting to take off the fuel tank again for whats probably the 2000th time I didn't know where the wires actually came out, so I figured to do it the way I saw was the easy way (for me).

I simply just fed a relay coil across each feed from the Hi/Low connectors off the headlamp connector and switched a feed direct from the battery via a suitably rated fused cable. It does work and its very simple with just two SPST relays. However I ended up as I said with a slightly dim dipped beam, but hi beam was fine.

would guess it`s a problem with the low beam relay power feed wiring and/or related connectors.

My exact analogy INGE, except I swapped the relays over, and then swapped them out TWICE, they are fed via a very stout cable and the earthing is good. So it has me scratching my head right now. Unless of course I have a bad batch of relays..maybe

I'm starting to think I should maybe have just gone for a single headlamp unit now

To isolate the problem I would measured the voltage at relay power input, output and bulb connector.....with low beam on.

I cant remember now what the results where, but I'm sure I did that. Its a little too cold to work on it right now to pick it up again, but soon as we have a break in the weather I'll have another go at it. But for sure this is a no brainer, something so simple I'll probably kick myself when I find what it is. The lamps are H4 55W/60W in each headlamp. I did measure the current on low beam and IIRC it was around 6 amps, way too low for around 110W. Should have been more in the region of around 9 amps on low beam. Yet on high beam like a searchlight. Plug it in direct and its great...duh

But yes..........

get relays for those headlights mate .

You are quite correct Charlie

But thanks for reminding me of this, as I would have probably left this just plugged straight in.

Cheers


Dave

just a thought ...there wouldnt be wiring issue would there ?. what i mean is have you inadvertantly connected the earth wire to the low or high bean connection so that there is loss across the globe through the other fillament ?

just a thought to recheck this . or some other variation on the same theme .

charlie99 wrote:just a thought ...there wouldn't be wiring issue would there ?. what i mean is have you inadvertently connected the earth wire to the low or high bean connection so that there is loss across the globe through the other filament ?

just a thought to recheck this . or some other variation on the same theme .

Not that I can remember Charlie. The relay coils I connected across the headlight socket hi and low to each relay with a common ground back to the brown wire on the headlight socket.

A fed direct from the battery to one commoned input pin of the switch relay contact, then out to the respective connector for hi/low. The common on the twin headlamp going straight to earth frame on the headstock where I removed the four M6 bolts that were holding the headlight frame onto it.

You can actually see the filaments switching in the bulb when going hi/low so I don't think I have that messed up. Besides that, I used the same pin thats connected to the brown wire on the bike socket so I'm pretty sure I have it correct. But cheers.

Logically, it has to be something on the lines of what INGE suggested. I mean it has to be a volt drop somewhere as I'm convinced I have it wired correctly.

Have you cleaned the contacts on Hi/Lo switch may be a build up of crap on low beam side

not really dirk ....the low current on low beam suggests that there is more resistance than the actuall single (or in this case double lamps in parallel ) i would be thinking that the earth is connected to the high beam input ..so that would mean that whilst on high beam all looks great but when on low beam ...the low beam lamp would illuminate but the earth path is through the highbeam fillament as well ...probably more noticeable with the good supply from the new positive wiring feed .

Have you cleaned the contacts on Hi/Lo switch may be a build up of crap on low beam side

No, I cant see that being an issue to be honest because..

1: The switch is only switching a relay coil not the bulb, and the relays operate fine via the switch.
2: If I connect the headlight direct into the bikes socket without all the relays, it works fine

But next I'm in there I will clean the switch just so I know its done anyway

Cheers

Dave

so that would mean that whilst on high beam all looks great but when on
low beam ...the low beam lamp would illuminate but the earth path is
through the high-beam filament as well

So you think I have the earth path of the low beam running through the high beam filament?

That would mean I have the filament wired in series wouldn't it?

The only other thing I can think of is that I also used a brand new H4 headlight connector to connect to the new headlight from the relays. I took the precaution of doubling up the wires to each pin on this connector by removing the pin from the holder and soldering another parallel wire in to take the extra load. Unless that is making a poor connection but it is new and a good fit.

yes indeed

an easy mistake to make

the low beam would illuminate ...and the high beam would almost glow but not quite. the effect is that you would have is about 7-9 volts actually accross the lowbeam fillament so its lit but not drawing full power and only about 3 - 4 volts accross the high beam fillament (not enough to light it up )

so if you add that up ,only about 60 % current draw ...does that sound right ?

i think we need a h4 pinout so you can confirm the wiring

But..

I KNOW FOR SURE that the common pin on the twin headlamp when pugged into the bikes own headlamp socket is going to the brown wire, this is the bikes own earth wire on the original socket. If when I use the relay set-up I am taking the same pin on the twin headlamp direct to the bikes frame so I KNOW I have the correct pin.

However...

I will check, double check, and check again this connection when next in there working on it. But I'm really convinced I'm using the correct pin for the common ground. But.. I suppose senior moments are coming my way more than I'd like.

I'll let you know when next in there, if your right I'll bow to your remote fault finding abilities

i think we need a h4 pinout so you can confirm the wiring

I just now hooked an H4 bulb up to a 30A PSU (I'm in my attic)



looking into the back of the bulb (best I could draw at this time of night)

--
I I

The black pin on the LH side I think is the common

I'm going to go out now into the garage and take a look at the relay loom as I took it off just for curiosity.

BRB

Did you use new wire or from an old robbed out harnes. I know a guy who used wire from an old harness and used a resistance wire and was getting a very poor spark on one cylinder which was the one he used the resistance wire on.

Hello Rick

No I used all new wire, and heavy duty stuff at that.

I've just looked at this relay loom I took off now. Been down for it in the garage, it look to be wired OK to me. But I think I will call in the local car shop tomorrow and get me another H4 headlamp connector just to play safe. Theres not really a lot of stuff there that can be at fault and both relays have been exchanged and swapped out so I know they are OK. Its either a duff piece of wire, a connection on one of the crimps (and they are all soldered as well) or the 'new' headlamp connector itself. All the stuff I used was all new.

I'll test it tomorrow when I have replaced the socket. I doubt I can fit it in back the bike tomorrow but I can hook it up here on the bench to test as I have a 30A PSU

Cheers


Dave

Its a very simple circuit one would think a fault to be easy to find in it but I would say to start at the begining and act like you have never seen it before and test and measure everything again.

Agreed, let you know tomorrow when I replace this H4 socket.

I'm off now it's nearly midnight here and I'm up at 5 in the morning for work M-F.

Cheers all

Dave

Dirk Digler wrote:looking into the back of the bulb (best I could draw at this time of night)

--
I [color=red]I

[color=black]The black pin on the LH side I think is the common

Found on the net (to confirm your....).

Cheers INGE

I knew I had it wired right. I've found the problem now, its the actual headlamp connector itself that comes off my relays that the new headlamp plugs into. Although it was actually a new one it was faulty causing a volt drop across the relay output pin to the new headlamp pin. Dont know if it was a bad crimp but it shouldn't have been as I soldered an extra wire across it to take the extra load. I picked up a slightly better one from the car shop in the village yesterday, but due to Halloween and the kids couldn't get to it to play with it. I've rewired it with silicone wire, hooked it up on the bench and it all works fine.

I didn't have the correct colours for the wires but I'll forgive myself for that. The green wire is the common.




At least its sorted, just got to put it all back now.

Cheers for the input. (again)

good work dirk .....all better !

Congrats with your find.....it seems like you now can put whatever wattage you like,
in your headlights...w/o being concerned about voltage drop.

Inge K. wrote:Congrats with your find.....it seems like you now can put whatever wattage you like,
in your headlights...w/o being concerned about voltage drop.

lol.... for sure inge ...next thing that will happen is the plastic connector will melt before the wiring lets go

Then we got ceramic connectors..... nothing stops us now.

Nice work Dirk, I actually nearly got one of those headlights for mine but was lucky enough to get the one I'm using for free.
Be keeping an eye on your progress. So much you can do with these old bikes.

Yes it is coming along but not as quick as I'd like because its getting really cold. At almost 61 now I'm starting to feel it. I have decided now I am no longer going to commute to work on two wheel in the winter. Last year was quite cold at -8 deg when leaving for work at 06:00 HRS. I got my free senior citizen (no laughing please) travel pass this year so now I get to travel for free to work on the train

When the belly pan eventually gets a coat of paint and goes on I think it will transform it, but that will be next year the time its taking; besides cant really paint/spray in the cold can you?

Below is a picture of my headlamp relay box. This will sit just above the horns and *hopefully* behind the headlamp out of view. The two red bits of sleeving are just diodes to absorb back EMF spikes across the relay coil. The green/yellow leads simply just plug into the original headlamp socket and the connector pictured in the above post just connects to the pins on the two relays. Very simple and it all works now (with another socket)




The power being fed from the thick white wire with the fuse holder on it.

Edit.....

Not the neatest thing I ever built, but fully functional. I just haven't had time to mount it all back on the bike yet.

Here is the headlamp relay box mounted. You can see the old headlamp socket, they feed the relay coils; and the new one that is fed from the relays in the box that the twin 'bug-eye' headlamp plugs into.






Soon as I get the belly pan on and get it outside I'll take some better pictures





Cheers all



Dave