As we know, the motor in the K100 series forms part of the frame. There being no cradle, a subframe must be made to mount the chair. I should point out right from the beginning that I am not a mechanic or engineer, and neither is my mate Dave, though he is one of those blokes who can turn his hand to most things, and had had previous experience with sidecars, as had I as a rider. Sometimes it was trial and error and other times it was a case of reading everything we could find on the internet thingy and working from there. Attached are some pics as a beginning: Of course, being in Australia, we drive on the proper side of the road, so anything for Europe or the US would have to be fabricated accordingly.

Can anyone see the photos I attached? I can't. The image hoster has them at that website, but I can't see them here.

nup not yet mate

UY^$%!%^$!

Mal sehen ob es diesmal klappt.....

nice !!!

Nice pics.

Here is the type of subframe I acquired few month ago....









CF

saxon
where /how does vertical support attach to frame

col wrote:saxon
where /how does vertical support attach to frame

Thanks, I wanted to ask that too

col, and Frog there are 4 mounting points. Two mount to the subframe and two to the frame itself. The one at the front top mounts right up near the steering head and the other to the frame rail. Attached are two pics...not great quality and both of them post-prang. If you like I can take some newer, more specific pics.

To be honest Crazy Frog, I'm having trouble working out how that subframe works!

thanks for the pics make things a bit clearer
talked to a bloke today who wants $2200 to make sub frame , attach and certify
a bit steep

Yeah...they seem to charge an arm and a leg for this stuff...possibly because not many people are building outfits these days? I'm going to meet up with some of these chaps who are travelling north in the morning. I'll crawl around on the ground and take some close up pics while I have the bike out of the shed.
Sean.

Saxon7 wrote:To be honest Crazy Frog, I'm having trouble working out how that subframe works!

The subframe is attached to the gearbox, and on the front upper engine bolts (where you normally bolt the crash bars). The radiator cowl has to be removed or modified).
The front part attaching to the engine is not made of tubing, but are solid rods.
A reinforcement plate (1/2 thick with 4 screws) is attached to the bottom of the gear box (where you normally bolt the stands) and the subframe is attached to this plate.
I also have the attachment (hub) to install a 15" car wheel on the back.

This will be a project when I will have free time.

CF

Ah ok, that makes sense. This bits that bolt to where the crashbars go had me confused.
Yes, you have to attach it to the gearbox I guess so you still have access to the oil plug and filter.

good one sean (meeting the northbound folks )

i hope they can enchorage you to the next meet up .

cheers

I doubt it will take much encouragement...! Actually I would normally have gone for this ride, but I was away over the last week on the bike and can't get away twice so close together. I am here alone most of the time with the dog and have to put her in "dog care"....but don't like to trouble them too much.

Another one for you to consider. Subframe on page 4.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554433

Cheers,

dee why

Some classics on that site....hard ridden hacks!

great link
good detail in build

Brilliant enjoyed this thread thanks guys, some workmanship, love outfits .



BIG D

Last year I did some drawings of how to fit a light sidecar to a K without using a subframe.
I'll dig them out and see if I can scan them.

The top front fitting goes to the top front engine mounting bolt.

The rear bottom fitting is an angle bracket fixed by the four centre stand bolts.

The rear top fitting is a 30mm clamp on the frame tube,

The front bottom fitting is formed by two steel strips bolted to the sump pan with spacers front and rear of the pan to form a rigid rectangle, and an eye bolt fitting at the end of the front spacer.

It would be the cheapest way of fitting a chair if anyone would like to try it!

Cheers,
Paul.

My Wasp subframe's fittings



Paul.

Photo of underneath bike and subframe. Taken today while lying down at side of road. Cars bipped their horns as they passed. I suspect they thought I was Brahms and Liszt already.

hmm ...just dawned on me ...you have little need for a side or centre stand ....doh !!!!

Need a lifting jack in the sidecar boot though, Charlie.

Pics of the EML subframe (Not my bike , I'll get it Monday ) .
You have enough details if you want to make your own. If any dimensions are needed, I will be able to provide them.

Can I ask some stupid questions?

Why is the front end rebuilt when fitting a sidecar? And why is there a dampener rod from the sidecar to the rebuilt front end?

http://www.sidevogn.no/
Se teknisk info.

sidecar paul wrote:Need a lifting jack in the sidecar boot though, Charlie.

Erman wrote:Can I ask some stupid questions?

Why is the front end rebuilt when fitting a sidecar? And why is there a dampener rod from the sidecar to the rebuilt front end?

Erman, I am guessing that Inge answered this question in Norwegian...but in case he didn't I will say that my front end has not been rebuilt and I don't have a steering damper fitted. I don't have any problems with the way the front end steers as it is. On the weekend on some rough roads, my old friend following me on his solo Bonneville commented that my outfit looked like a sack full of cats...flexing all over the place.... I just sort of go with it :pale:

Saxon7 wrote:Erman, I am guessing that Inge answered this question in Norwegian...

Saxon, try this, but don`t blame me when your stomach start to hurt from the laughing...................

Inge, the Google translator is one of the BETTER ones!!!!
For a true laugh/cry/want to kill experience, try Babelfish or Bing on Facebook!

Standard forks are not designed to get the lateral forces generated by the addition of a sidecar. They will flex, twist and chatter occur.
The advantages of Leading forks is that you can adjust the trail to lighten the effort required to steer the outfit (See the 2 holes on the back of the fork. You have two different settings). The braking load is transferred to the main fork tubes, so under heavy braking you still have normal suspension travel, and only minor dive due to weight transfer and Coil over shocks give adjustability and ensure a smooth ride.

Check this English article

CF

Saxon7 wrote:For a true laugh/cry/want to kill experience, try Babelfish or Bing on Facebook!

Thanks,.......don`t think my health is strong enough...

Wow, that's a massive construction CF, a bit over the top in my opinion, but I suppose they don't want any legal come back.

The Wasp subframe is quite delicate by comparison.

Paul.

sidecar paul wrote:Wow, that's a massive construction CF, a bit over the top in my opinion, but I suppose they don't want any legal come back.

That is a truly beautiful piece of construction. I suspect that the subframe is not as heavy as it looks and it ticks all the boxes as far as design goes. I must say that when I had some involvement with sidecar fitting years ago some of the setups used on professionally produced chairs were truly horrific. At the time my main business was straightening motorcycle frames and the damage done by bad sidecar fittings was frightening. Very nice to see a really well engineered setup.
Regards Dennis.

This Web Page has details about building of a 3 points mount subframe.

There is also a blueprint of the front hub to adapt a Smart Fortwo wheel.

Trying to attach a couple of pics of what I have on file relating to subframes. what I have is somewhat simpler to this thread. some food for thought though.
It has recently been suggested to me that it is becoming a bit more of a pain for sidecar techs to have outfits approved, and that some are simply giving the game away, a red tape ( govt auth. nightmare) . a shame dont you think..
Suggestions for pic uploads thanks, tried cut n paste.
From research so far on pre 70s earles fork BMWs , CF is on the right track , essentially the front end is lightened under braking and instead of diving you get that lift of sensation, hey maybe instead of that neat sportster k100 , I just need an earles fork under the front for a wheelie , will that work Saxon?[img][/img]

Not sure if you attached pics there or not. They hadn't shown up on screen after 5 minutes.
It's perfectly legal to just register the bike as a solo and then add the chair afterwards.
If you give the old Brick fistful in first it will lift the front end an inch or so with the chair attached.
( An odd feeling)

a.Chair will need to be matched to subframe and certified by engineer ,b. then attached to bike for final brake testing, so I've been told.
the pics as promised,
this one is probably more adaptable to the existing chassis mounts I have (DJP). easy to manufacture, especially if you don't own a tube bender.note the bracket just below the seat.

vlsuzuki,

Solo Earles type forks will still have solo trail, so the steering would still be heavy.

You should move to the UK, sidecars are considered as an 'accessory', with no mention on the registration documents.

And your tyres would last longer..........

Cheers,

Paul.

heres a different way to do things .....just interesting is all

Man that 1st pic makes it look like its sitting in a trailer from behind. Still with sidecars I've always wondered why its needed to have a triangle at the front after all you have it locked at the rear. In our case its fixed to the gearbox underneath and to the top frame above that surely means the front only needs a locating tube to keep thing straight.

Another good reason tive in Queensland...Just rock on up to the DOT and have your safety certificate and it will be registered as a side car. rego is the same as a normal bike. just a few dollars more on your third party!!

Alby are you suggesting a temporary visa in the north?

Hey Alby...why would you be interested in knowing how to register a side car? :silent:

Did somebody say something about a pink bikewith streamers????

Here is another cheap alternative if you need training wheels on your bike