Hi Phil

Another day...More investigation and reading last night has found:

My number 1 relay is the same as your picture. It is an original BMW 1 373 912.3 five pin relay.

However my second relay (which I thought was for the headlights! I'm a dummy!) and is, as you have stated, for the load shedding is in fact a duplicate 4 pin Hella that runs the horn relay.

All I can think of is that at some stage the load shedding was replaced with a Hella 4 pin. I will need to remove the tank (again) and investigate whether the load shedding socket is 4 or 5 pin. If it is 5 pin then I assume I need to get a proper replacement? Internet search has indicated a Tyco/Bosch replacement part with 5 pins Bosch 0 332 019 150 which has a mounting bracket (just a plastic lug at the top for a screw) or Bosch 0 332 019 150 which has no plastic lug. US$7 so I should just get one!


To add more confusion I am watching Ebay for a complete set of relays from a similar bike which came on line today! the confusion comes from the uncanny resemblance to my setup e.g. one black FI relay and two yellow looking Hellas?


Don't sweat over this as I probably won't do much until the weekend.

Again, thanks

Mal

I was a bit surprised myself to find no headlight relay as it was a natural thing to have but no just switch it through the handlebar switch, hence the becoming common Eastern Beaver Kit.

On mine and I think Roy's the load shed relay appears to be the same as the fuel pump relay and if yours is a five pin then it will be the same also if it is a 4 pin...... at least it should be relatively standard but even 7 bucks US is not too bad, and at the worst you will have a spare FI relay.

Regards

Phil

Hi Roy

Came upon this as a possible source for a BMW FI relay. Search Ebay for this:



BMW E30 Relais schwarz 1373912 5-polig 1373912.3 E 30
I have just ordered one for Euro 3.99 + postage. This relay is also used in early Series 6 BMW cars...



Regards



Mal Wells

Cablebeacher wrote:Hi Roy

Came upon this as a possible source for a BMW FI relay. Search Ebay for this:



BMW E30 Relais schwarz 1373912 5-polig 1373912.3 E 30
I have just ordered one for Euro 3.99 + postage. This relay is also used in early Series 6 BMW cars...



Regards



Mal Wells

hi,

The relays I found on my bike were, front left to right:

1) noname, 6/86 1 459 574.3, 5 prongs, BMW stamp - replaced with TYCO 61.36 8373 700 from motobins
2) SWF 601.484 1 373 474, 4 prongs - replaced with BOSCH 12V 30A 0 332 014 406 from motobins
3) elmot, type 541 12V 30A, 5 prongs - NOT replaced - i do not know what to replace it with as abviousely the schemes in variouse sources are not 100% relaible. "ELMOT" is a bulgerian mfg and probably replaced by a previous owner.

Thank you,
Roy

The great relay saga:

I am slowly starting to sift through this maze of conflicting information and wish to put forward a theory which is open to debate/abuse etc.

Firstly I was just informed by a colleague that these relays have a standard relay wiring configuration, at which point I nearly fell off my chair, but pins 85 and 86 are the coil and 30 and 87 (and 87b) are the contacts so that is a huge plus.

1) So far we have three relays along the front of the of the relay box.

2) LH one is the fuel pump/fuel injection and is 5 pins (but possibly 4 in some (later?) bikes.

3) The second two relays can be switched around but are horn and load shed.

4) Horn relay is 4 pins

5) Load shed relay is 5 pins and 30A (possibly not in Mal's case)

6) If the load shed and fuel injection relay have 5 pins then they should be interchangeable (allowing for current rating).

So essentially we have three quite standard relays with standard pin configurations that can be replaced with anything that matches the voltage and current rating.

It appears, as has been suggested, the only sure way to test is to remove the offending relay and see what does not work.

Don't you just love reverse engineering??

Regards,

Phil

Saga of the relays???? What saga?

Yes I am confused too but your point is a good one. all relays are standard and the pin #s are standard too.

I just went to my workshop and pickup a cheap "made in China" relay made for Ford and I get the same pin #.
ie: 85 & 86 are the coil
30 is the common
87 and 87a are the contacts

This is the reason why I previously said that you can switch the relays (at the condition that you switch a 5 pins relay for a 5 pins)

phil_mars wrote:The great relay saga:

I am slowly starting to sift through this maze of conflicting information and wish to put forward a theory which is open to debate/abuse etc.

Firstly I was just informed by a colleague that these relays have a standard relay wiring configuration, at which point I nearly fell off my chair, but pins 85 and 86 are the coil and 30 and 87 (and 87b) are the contacts so that is a huge plus.

1) So far we have three relays along the front of the of the relay box.

2) LH one is the fuel pump/fuel injection and is 5 pins (but possibly 4 in some (later?) bikes.

3) The second two relays can be switched around but are horn and load shed.

4) Horn relay is 4 pins

5) Load shed relay is 5 pins and 30A (possibly not in Mal's case)

6) If the load shed and fuel injection relay have 5 pins then they should be interchangeable (allowing for current rating).

So essentially we have three quite standard relays with standard pin configurations that can be replaced with anything that matches the voltage and current rating.

It appears, as has been suggested, the only sure way to test is to remove the offending relay and see what does not work.

Don't you just love reverse engineering??

Regards,

Phil

Hi Phil,

I think many will thank you for this post. There is no doubt that when 4 different sources provide different information; HAYNES and CLYMER (most people have one of these or both), The BMW manual and the BMW CD; then it is confusing for all but the masters.

Even with your post and Bert's follow up there is a lingering issue. It seem that different relays, identical in function and form, have different BMW numbers, this can mislead naive users like myself who might think, out of ignorance, that each BMW code signifies a unique set of properties - it now seems this is not the case.

Thank you
Roy

Hi Roy, I think this brings home the point of thinking outside the box. The ideal situation would be to have a part no stamped on a part so that when it fails we could go to the dealer and ask for part no. xyz as a replacement.

Unbeknownst to the poor end user asking for the part the manufacturer has decided to change the part no. or modify it for no good reason than to save a few cents.

I come across it all too frequently in my line of work and it drives me around the bend when you have a parts manual full of perfectly good part numbers that are even logical in their numbering and for no reason other than dubious convenience they are changed from 7 to 10 digit, etc.

Obviously in a lot of cases the only part is the genuine one for better or worse but thankfully there are occasions such as this where we can find a perfectly good substitute after only a few hundred hours of research

Still it is a learning process and look at all the great information we find along the way.

Regards,

Phil

hi everyone

The Bosch manual for the efi system contains detailed info about the system including troubleshooting. After all, they are the ones who designed the system!!!!!!
The manual can be viewed online.

Cheers!

gabriel wrote:hi everyone

The Bosch manual for the efi system contains detailed info about the system including troubleshooting. After all, they are the ones who designed the system!!!!!!
The manual can be viewed online.

Cheers!

Hi gabriel,

Can you provide a link?

thank you,
Roy

After so many weeks of discussion and so much knowledge thrown in this post, I created a web page about the troubleshooting of the EFI /Motronic. You will find basic explanations and a lot of simplified diagrams.

Troubleshooting the EFI