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K100-forum.com » Technical, repair and troubleshooting » Engine and transmission » Weird Clutch issue.

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1Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:11 am

fishboy316

fishboy316
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Hello folks, Hope you all are well! Was riding home from work today when suddenly the clutch lever got soft. Was like all of a sudden I had an inch of free play. Was still kinda working but not well. Then it stopped working all together. Made it home and it was no more good. Got on the ground and found the free play adjustment had gotten out of whack. Readjusted it and went around the neighborhood. It felt ok. When I got home I had about 3/16" of free play. I shut it off and when I returned the lever was Hard as A rock??? affraid Played around with the adjustment a little bit and now it feels good. Any ideas what or how this could happen? Am a little worried about riding the darn thing and it's going to be 80F this weekend! I did replace the clutch cable about 3 weeks ago. Is routed the same way as the old broke cable.

Thanks
 Bill

    

2Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:29 am

duck

duck
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Never had this issue on a K75 but riding my K1100LT once a little rock flew up when I had the clutch pulled in and coincidentally landed -exactly- where it needed to be on the exhaust to keep the clutch arm from rotating back to engage the clutch. A very freaky coincidence that's only happened to me once.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

3Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:41 am

fishboy316

fishboy316
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It's a little unsettling when you go to use the clutch at a light and it ain't there! Shocked  I am hoping the internals are ok. Might just have to take it out in the morning and see. Thanks Duck

    

4Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:44 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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I read your post four times, and still don't fully understand what you are seeing.  Where are you measuring the free play?  Where are you adjusting it?  What are you adjusting? 

Did you use the factory clutch adjustment procedure, adjusting for 75mm at the lower cable end, adjusting for the screw to just touch the clutch rod and then adjusting for 3-4mm free play at the lever gap where the cable connects?  Are all the locking nuts tightened? 

I wonder if the clutch rod is sticking, possibly because it is bent or the clutch is not centered.  Not sure how changing the clutch cable could start it sticking, but it is something to consider.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

5Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:40 am

firstle

firstle
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was Hard as A rock???    side stand down ?

    

6Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:58 am

Suzi Q

Suzi Q
Life time member
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Had a problem with varying clutch movement a while ago - it felt like the clutch was constantly readjusting itself so's the biting point was in a different place.
Bad news - the output shaft (on which the clutch sits) is located axially by a circlip around the front bearing. This had failed and the output shaft (and clutch) was free to move fore and aft by a few mm - hence the constant readjustment. Engine strip required, but a straightforward and inexpensive fix when you finally get there.

Edit: I think I spotted the problem when I removed the crank cover - it was possible to move the output shaft fore and aft by a few mm.

Edit2: referred to the output shaft as the auxiliary shaft - oops - but it is early.


__________________________________________________
Sometimes I'm not really Suzi Quatro.
    

7Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:54 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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firstle wrote:was Hard as A rock???    side stand down ?

Good question and also why it is so important to actually state what bike is the problem. Not all Ks have the side stand retractor [one of mine has it] and it can cause this.

But also the clutch splines can go sticky and at this time of year thats a possibility. But given its a new cable and only 3 weeks in I would also question routing.

The needle bearings on the clutch pivot arm can get old and seize and elave loads of free play. I have that issue on my RS and it took a lot of effort to free them up.

One of my Ks had a new cable before I got it and the PO had followed the old route but the owner before him had done it wrong.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 51,800 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

8Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:15 pm

fishboy316

fishboy316
Life time member
Life time member
Point-Seven-five wrote:I read your post four times, and still don't fully understand what you are seeing.  Where are you measuring the free play?  Where are you adjusting it?  What are you adjusting? 

Did you use the factory clutch adjustment procedure, adjusting for 75mm at the lower cable end, adjusting for the screw to just touch the clutch rod and then adjusting for 3-4mm free play at the lever gap where the cable connects?  Are all the locking nuts tightened? 

I wonder if the clutch rod is sticking, possibly because it is bent or the clutch is not centered.  Not sure how changing the clutch cable could start it sticking, but it is something to consider.
 Measuring at the lever where it goes into the barrel. Adjusting at the clutch where the boot is on the clutch arm. Followed the Chris Harris video adjusting the free play. The cable is measured at 3" metal housing to the nipple. Locknuts are tight. When the failure occurred found the locknut on the clutch arm loose. When it happened it almost felt like the cable was breaking again.  It was working great until yesterday after the cable replacement. 

Thanks .75

    

9Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:52 pm

fishboy316

fishboy316
Life time member
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firstle wrote:was Hard as A rock???    side stand down ?
 Nope, Stand up.
Tks for the reply!

    

10Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 2:05 pm

fishboy316

fishboy316
Life time member
Life time member
92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:
firstle wrote:was Hard as A rock???    side stand down ?

Good question and also why it is so important to actually state what bike is the problem. Not all Ks have the side stand retractor [one of mine has it] and it can cause this.

But also the clutch splines can go sticky and at this time of year thats a possibility. But given its a new cable and only 3 weeks in I would also question routing.

The needle bearings on the clutch pivot arm can get old and seize and elave loads of free play. I have that issue on my RS and it took a lot of effort to free them up.

One of my Ks had a new cable before I got it and the PO had followed the old route but the owner before him had done it wrong.
85 K100rs. I will check the issues you have brought up. 

Thanks for the reply Olaf!

    

11Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 2:11 pm

fishboy316

fishboy316
Life time member
Life time member
Suzi Q wrote:Had a problem with varying clutch movement a while ago - it felt like the clutch was constantly readjusting itself so's the biting point was in a different place.
Bad news - the output shaft (on which the clutch sits) is located axially by a circlip around the front bearing. This had failed and the output shaft (and clutch) was free to move fore and aft by a few mm - hence the constant readjustment. Engine strip required, but a straightforward and inexpensive fix when you finally get there.

Edit: I think I spotted the problem when I removed the crank cover - it was possible to move the output shaft fore and aft by a few mm.

Edit2: referred to the output shaft as the auxiliary shaft - oops - but it is early.
 Thanks for the reply Suzi Q! Am hoping it's not this! Really don't want to tear it down. Rolling Eyes It sure could be the problem though. 

Thanks 
Bill

    

12Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 2:23 pm

fishboy316

fishboy316
Life time member
Life time member
Rode in to work today and the clutch was smooth as butter. For the moment I am going to check, clean and lube all the moving parts and recheck the adjustment and ride it to see what happens.
Thanks for the replys!

Bill

    

13Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:18 pm

Laitch

Laitch
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Life time member
fishboy316 wrote: When the failure occurred found the locknut on the clutch arm loose.
Weird Clutch issue. 167893

    

14Back to top Go down   Weird Clutch issue. Empty Re: Weird Clutch issue. Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:53 pm

fishboy316

fishboy316
Life time member
Life time member
Yes Matt I know!  Embarassed Did ride a couple hundred miles and all good, so that's good.

    

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