Submersible fuel hose in OZ can be dear and hard to get I've been quoted $100.00 a metre for T10. A few years ago I found a local Motorsport shop that stocked T10 and with membership it was $17.00 Au a metre they also stocked stainless EFI hose clips in a pack of 10 or single. One of the K Kronies dad who resides in Canberra was unable to purchase submersible hose and or clips, so I was asked if I could help. I haven't been to their store for over 3 years so I dropped in and asked for a metre of T10 and was asked where it was going to be fitted. I said in tank for fuel injection, so he said there is now something better. Gates Barricade SAE 30 T14 submersible rated to 225 PSI suitable with multiple fuels approved for use with leaded and unleaded petrol, diesel bio diesel B100, E10, E15, E85,  100% Gasahol, Methanol, Ethanol. It came out to $25.00 Au a metre with membership stainless hose clips were $2.50 Au each or $13.00 Au for a pack of 10. It sounds like with the specs it might last a lot longer than the T10.
Regards Martin.

Thanks for the research, Martin.  A quick search shows that FortNine, an aftermarket parts supplier in Canada, has this hose in stock in two lengths and several I.D. A 2 foot length of 1/4" (6mm) is $28 and 25 feet is $176.

Interesting information on fuel line grades:

https://www.underhoodservice.com/correct-fuel-hose-installation/

Scroll down for some interesting reading on turbochargers.

I can't find a reference to a T14 standard, Martin. I've only come up with T2. Will you post the Gates product number for that Barricade hose? So far, all copy I'm reading about Barricade seems to indicate it isn't submersible.

Laitch I actually queried the supplier Motorsport accessories and they assured me that they get it directly off Gates for submersible applications. I'll go direct to Gates today for a definitive answer. 
Regards Martin.

Here's information from the Gates website concerning Barricade. I've done a two-parter of the page for legibility. Although Gates also manufactures 30R10 submersible, one of Barricade's selling point seems to be elimination of vapor loss, which is not a particular concern for hose that is submerged. I've found a few contradictions in entries on Gates website pages so what you get from them directly would settle the matter.

The query that i sent to Gates.
 
I went to get some submersible EFI T10 hose from my local supplier and was told there was now something better T14. When I got home I couldn’t see any markings on the hose stating submersible, so I rang them. I was told it was rated to 225 PSI and that it was purchased from Gates as submersible EFI hose. I posted  on an online forum that there was now a better hose than the previous T10. I then received a query from the US as to where it was rated as submersible. I would greatly appreciate your help in clarifying this matter.
Regards Martin.


The answer that I received.


Hi Martin,

I have spoke to our Technical Team and the only information they have is as below;

https://www.gates.com/us/en/search.p.4219-000000-000012.html

SUBMERSIBLE FUEL LINE HOSE
If your in-tank applications and fuel systems cause your hoses to be in constant contact with gasoline or other fuel fluids, you need the Gates Submersible Fuel Hose. Most fuel lines are only designed to handle fuel on the interior of the hose, which can be damaged if the exterior is exposed to fuel. Gates Submersible Fuel Line Hose is capable of handling multiple types of gasoline and fuels, including gasoline, alcohol-extended gasoline, ethanols, biodiesel or diesel fuel in fully-immersed, mobile and stationary applications. Engineered for fully submersible use, these hoses are excellent for use on gas tank fuel pumps.

Temperature tolerance range of -40°C to +150°C (-40°F to +302°F).
Comprised of a FKM tube and cover with a synthetic fiber reinforcement.
Exceeds required SAE 30R10 standard.
Working pressure of up to 100 PSI.


GatesConnect.com.au is our new online portal. It allows you to do your P&A’s, get tracking information and copies of your invoices in less than a minute, allowing you to skip the queue!

Please ask me for your Billing ID, signup is quick and simple.

Regards,

DONNA TKALCEVIC
Customer Service
 

I now need to see what the supplier say's.
Regards Martin.

It sounds like the counterman at the distributor got a little confused.  SAE30R10 is still the ticket for inside the tank, but the SAE30R14 looks like it might be a good choice for the external lines.

The counter man conferred with the manager and then when I rang back I talked to the manager. And he assured me that they ordered it especially off Gates for in tank applications. I sent them an Email with a copy of my query to Gates and their answer. I am awaiting their reply. The thing is after the phone confirmation by the manager the hose was mailed off to Canberra.
Regards Martin.

Barricade submerged in fuel is likely to tank within the tank, at least according to the Gates website. Maybe everyone should switch over to Esperanto, or espresso, to limit further confusion while the Canberra field trial runs its course. 

The hose is now with Grumpy  

He going to cut a piece off and stick in a jar but from what I'm reading its not sounding promising 

Will be interested to know what your supplier say 

I'm going to be out of the loop for the next two week attending the OCR with Gary B  so that should give the hose a bit of time to soak  and disintegrate

I finally got an answer off Motorsport accessories as he eventually got an answer off the rep. It is not submersible but is fine for outside the tank. He has apologized and offered to give me a refund, however due the fact that the hose is now in Canberra I declined. I've already sent Alex a metre of SAE30 T10.
Regards Martin.

I have been replacing fuel lines and always keep a stock in my shed.

The fuel line for in tank is marked NBR/NBR meaning submersible. The fuel line for outside the tank is marked NBR/CR. You cannot interchange the uses, in tank fuel line has an issue with UV light and the outside fuel tank line is not ethanol resistant from outside. 

My source was tills.de and they are a very good supplier and I suspect a volume order would be cheap.

You should be aware Honda motorcycles use the exact same size and specification fuel lines and I have been able to buy it over the counter at my local Honda dealer at a very good price as in less than AUD$2 a foot. They also use the same exhaust studs long enough for 16v/K1100 . . . . .Edit: This is OUTSIDE the tank as in NBR/CR

@Olaf

thank you for adding your knowledge and experience

@who it may concern
could this information be added to a database, please?

MartinW wrote:I finally got an answer off Motorsport accessories as he eventually got an answer off the rep. It is not submersible but is fine for outside the tank. He has apologized and offered to give me a refund, however due the fact that the hose is now in Canberra I declined. I've already sent Alex a metre of SAE30 T10.
Regards Martin.

In the U.S. the SAE spec is SAE30 R10 not T10 

According to my Capt. Midnight Secret Decoder Ring the spec number printed on the hose decodes as follows:

30 is the specification group for fuel, oil, and emission hose.  If the hose you are using for fuel doesn't have a 30 at the start of the identification number you can't use it for fuel, emissions or oil systems

R identifies the section of the specification group.  The number after the R is the particular set of specifications.   These specifications are for things such as construction, permeability, flexibility(bend radius), temperature range and kink resistance.  The R number is what determines where a hose can be used; in the tank, outside the vehicle, or under the hood.  If this number isn't 10, you can't use it in the fuel tank.

T identifies the revision level for the section.  I understand that to mean that whenever a hose manufacturer makes an approved design improvement it can be documented by a new T number.  For example: if a new rubber compound that has a better bend radius is approved, hose made with that compound will get a new T number, but the R number will still be the same.  The T number will mean that particular hose will be more flexible than other hoses in the group.

The T number is useful to an engineer because it lets him see the differences in a group of available hose that meets a particular application.  To the end user the minor differences that the T number represents are almost meaningless and that is why nearly all the hose being sold does not have the T number printed on it.  

Bottom line, SAE30R10 should always be printed on any hose you put in your Brick's fuel tank.

Drink Ovaltine

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I have been replacing fuel lines and always keep a stock in my shed.

The fuel line for in tank is marked NBR/NBR meaning submersible. The fuel line for outside the tank is marked NBR/CR. You cannot interchange the uses, in tank fuel line has an issue with UV light and the outside fuel tank line is not ethanol resistant from outside. 

My source was tills.de and they are a very good supplier and I suspect a volume order would be cheap.

You should be aware Honda motorcycles use the exact same size and specification fuel lines and I have been able to buy it over the counter at my local Honda dealer at a very good price as in less than AUD$2 a foot. They also use the same exhaust studs long enough for 16v/K1100 . . . . .

Ah, this might be the reason on Big Block, I used a piece of OEM submersible hose on the external return line, and it 'sweats' a bit, feels slightly sticky, but not quite 'wet'. I'll try an exterior graded piece to see if the issue goes away.

Point-Seven-five wrote:T identifies the revision level for the section.  

Historically, T was for the tears she shed to save me. 

Wow that was frustrating, wrote  along story asking for help and tried to post it only to have it say "tough luck Charlie Brown too long" and then it disappeared. 


Shortened version:
Followed and read this thread. Tried to purchase SAE30R10 in my small town. No luck so far, as I appear to be have been educating local parts men that submersible means in the tank not outside the tank.
Will try one more location tomorrow, a Honda shop. I try not to order from the US as they want to expedite it and ship it to me in 2 hours, insure it, pay custom charges and handling by a broker.
So, since I needed a couple RS mirror clips I may as well order it from Motobins. Went to their site and found the recommended 1987 K100RS internal gas tank fuel hose, their number 95413 (submersible). Just to make sure I sent an email to them that they verify it is SAE30R10 as it is not mentioned in their description.
Motobins answer:

Hi Shep,The internal diameter is around 7.4 to allow for a snug push fit on a 8mm nozzle and the last specification data sheet I had for it states: SAE J30R9.Hope that helps. David Binswanger MOTO-BINS LTD
 
What gives, why the J in front of the 30 and is R9 submersible or have they misread something???

Some of this has been covered on other threads.
But, If anyone is considering using some of the stuff sold on ebay as 'Submersible' and even marked up as SAE J30 etc. then beware that internet consensus is that all this stuff is no good. That's certainly my own experience too. It lasted about 2 years in the tank before swelling and eventually splitting. It didn't turn to goo, so I suppose you could use it if you had nothing else - a split inside the tank isn't going to kill anyone, only stop your bike. 
The only guaranteed option (internet consensus again I'm afraid) is Gates, which is super-expensive in the UK. I might go looking for some of Olaf's Honda hose.

Suzi Q wrote:Some of this has been covered on other threads.
But, If anyone is considering using some of the stuff sold on ebay as 'Submersible' and even marked up as SAE J30 etc. then beware that internet consensus is that all this stuff is no good. That's certainly my own experience too. It lasted about 2 years in the tank before swelling and eventually splitting. It didn't turn to goo, so I suppose you could use it if you had nothing else - a split inside the tank isn't going to kill anyone, only stop your bike. 
The only guaranteed option (internet consensus again I'm afraid) is Gates, which is super-expensive in the UK. I might go looking for some of Olaf's Honda hose.

The Honda hose is outside the tank, not inside. 

I got my inside tank hoses from tills.de but kpartsholland.com also do it. I imagine Motorworks will do it too and they are a long time in the game.

If you can order from RockAuto up there in the Great White North, they have the right stuff. 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5546565&pt=1001642&jsn=342

If you can order from EuroMotoElectrics, they have a flexible nylon fuel line that can be used in the tank.  It also meets the SAE j30 R10 spec.

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/fp-hosekit.htm

To confirm Olaf's assertion in post #13:

The submersible fuel hose sold by BMW is stamped NBR/NBR; it is not stamped with the SAEJ30R10 designation nor does it have a DIN standard reference number that I can determine. Research revealed the NBR/NBR designation is a German industrial equivalent to the J30R10 standard; that has also been proven during the 40,000 trouble-free miles it's been used in my Brick after replacing the same BMW hose.

In Europe, stahlbus is a major manufacturer of NBR/NBR high pressure fuel injection hose—not to be confused with NBR/CR external high pressure fuel injection hose, or NBR itself which is simply the abbreviation of the rubber compound. Those hose labels seem uncharacteristically inexact for Teutonic engineering but probably because I don't qualify for initiation into their deeper meaning, if there is one. Regardless, the attached is from the stahlbus website.

Thanks for that on Laitch, spot on. I did not go looking into the details of it so its good to know.

Handy travel/touring tip: I have a little 4 euro bulb pump in my ducktail in case I need to drain the tank on my travels or if anyone runs out of gas so I can pump from one bike to another. I have two lengths of hose mounted on it push fit, one long one of NBR/CR so I can replace an outside tank line, slightly shorter NBR/NBR for inside tank. Problem on the move means I have spare fuel hose too! The longer one also serves as an emergency pipe to the coolant expansion tank if that pipe blows.

Suzi Q wrote:Some of this has been covered on other threads.
But, If anyone is considering using some of the stuff sold on ebay as 'Submersible' and even marked up as SAE J30 etc. then beware that internet consensus is that all this stuff is no good. That's certainly my own experience too. It lasted about 2 years in the tank before swelling and eventually splitting.

Is this the hose with accordion pleats that I see advertised with replacement fuel pumps for Bricks? If it is, the reason for its eventual collapse in Bricks could be that fuel in the tanks of Bricks generates an inordinate amount of heat in some cases. stahlbus's description of its NBR/NBR (referencing its DIN standard number) seems to indicate heat could be a problem with certain plastic.

Made from the material NBR/NBR according to DIN 73379 are abrasive resistant as plastic tubing and are particularly distinguished by their temperature and heat resistance.

Unlike most BMW parts, a good price on internal fuel line is the BMW part 16121180040.

In the US it costs $37 for a METER of it. (A K bike uses two sections, one 14" and one 2".)

Laitch wrote:

Suzi Q wrote:Some of this has been covered on other threads.
But, If anyone is considering using some of the stuff sold on ebay as 'Submersible' and even marked up as SAE J30 etc. then beware that internet consensus is that all this stuff is no good. That's certainly my own experience too. It lasted about 2 years in the tank before swelling and eventually splitting.

Is this the hose with accordion pleats that I see advertised with replacement fuel pumps for Bricks? If it is, the reason for its eventual collapse in Bricks could be that fuel in the tanks of Bricks generates an inordinate amount of heat in some cases. stahlbus's description of its NBR/NBR (referencing its DIN standard number) seems to indicate heat could be a problem with certain plastic.

Made from the material NBR/NBR according to DIN 73379 are abrasive resistant as plastic tubing and are particularly distinguished by their temperature and heat resistance.

Yes, the EuroMotoElectrics fuel line is nylon.  Outside of meeting SAE J30R10 they don't specify if it is Nylon6 or Nylon6/6 but in either case it is a crystalline plastic resin that has a melting point of approximately 425F or 220C.

I seriously doubt the fuel temperature will get that high and if it does, you have bigger problems to contend with.  That high temperature capability is the reason Nylon has so many under hood applications in the auto industry.  It is probably the most used engineering resin in automotive applications.  For example, the plastic end tanks on your vehicle's radiator are Nylon and rated at well over 250F and 100psi.  The glue they are attached with will fail before the tank itself.

As far as eBay fuel line, how do you know it isn't from China and garbage?  I get mine at NAPA which sells the Gates line.  I have also used the EME nylon line and had no problems.

It looks like most of you would be better buying from the UK. Motorworks:

https://www.motorworks.co.uk/internal-high-pressure-fuel-hose-taa37828-1.html

Based on some of those prices quoted above, I think that's quite cheap and shipping is probably not that much either.

Point-Seven-five wrote:I seriously doubt the fuel temperature will get that high and if it does, you have bigger problems to contend with. 

That's comforting; I've had bigger problems regardless—choosing between fire or flood, gales or drought, misdemeanor or felony, fight or flight, lime tarts or profiteroles. I chose NBR/NBR just to reduce dither.

After reading the post I decided to check the K1100 just in case as I had purchased some immersible line a few months ago and there it was about 1 inch round, soft, sloppy and greasy as, so it's going back to the local auto shop today.

all this talk about fuel line so thought i would change mine , is this the right stuff ? Inside Tank Fuel Hose 7.3mm x 14.5mm Petrol Diesel Type 2190 Cohline (Like R10) | eBay

I see the listing states that the internal and external ratings are NBR, so I would think it is suitable for use in the tank. 

Never heard of the manufacturer.  Might be worth doing a little research on them to see if the hose they sell is made in China.  I personally no longer trust most things that are made in China anymore.  I only purchase them if there are no alternatives or I have had good results in the past.  At least the seller is not in China.  Chinese sellers play fast and loose with the truth.

Looks like a read-it-fast scam, because there is a Danish company called Cohlan (or similar) Codan that does do genuine submersible pipe.

Edited for correct name.

firstle wrote:all this talk about fuel line so thought i would change mine , is this the right stuff ? Inside Tank Fuel Hose 7.3mm x 14.5mm Petrol Diesel Type 2190 Cohline (Like R10) | eBay

7.3mm would be a tight squeeze. The piece of BMW's NBR/NBR submersible fuel hose I have on my desk measures 8mm I.D. That's how it's listed in MAXBMW'S parts fiche, too.

Dai wrote:Looks like a read-it-fast scam, because there is a Danish company called Cohlan (or similar) that does do genuine submersible pipe.

That idea could hold water. Cohline's headquarters appear to be in Unit 4, Bridge Works  Honley, Holmfirth
which according to my reckoning is near Huddlesfield which, possibly, is part of Suzie Q's universe. Regardless, they don't seem bothered by not keeping up with the stahlbus's, appearance-wise.

Point-Seven-five wrote:
Bottom line, SAE30R10 should always be printed on any hose you put in your Brick's fuel tank.

Drink Ovaltine

Secret Decoder Ring:  Drink More Ovaltine 

kennybob wrote:

Point-Seven-five wrote:
Bottom line, SAE30R10 should always be printed on any hose you put in your Brick's fuel tank.

Drink Ovaltine

Secret Decoder Ring:  Drink More Ovaltine 

I think we found another Secret Squadron member.

One of the K Kronies got caught out using the place I used to get my hose from. He went in asking for SAE 30 R10 and was told we have something better SAE 30 T14. I gave him all the information that I had accrued from my previous encounter and they again apologised and he got a refund. I wonder how many cars/motorcycles are now running around the area with SAE 30 T14 dissolving in their tanks. Next time I'm over there I might drop in and see what they try to sell me.
Regards Martin.

I found some SAE 30 R 6 & 7 in my stash.  I assume it will still do the job.

7 superceeds 6 rating but 7 is not for EFI It is meant for low pressure like carbies where 6-7PSI is the top end of normal, you need SAE30R9 or J30R9 for external EFI and SAE30R10 or J30R10 for immersed fuel line.
SAE30R14 is very defiantly not suitable for immersed fuel line.  I think the J prefix is a euro standard but I would stand corrected on that.
The R14 I put in the K1100 was swollen to about twice the diameter and when it dried out I gave it a good twist and the outer layer split.

Thanks Rick.  

Both lengths look like they started as a one metre length, so have been used somewhere.     I assume I have used them externally to length the originals.

You would be able to use the R7 as a return line back to the tank from the Fuel Pressure Regulator as that only has about 8-10PSI.

TacKler wrote:I found some SAE 30 R 6 & 7 in my stash.  I assume it will still do the job.

I posted this above.  Maybe you should read it.

https://www.underhoodservice.com/correct-fuel-hose-installation/

Point-Seven-five wrote:I posted this above.  Maybe you should read it.

Maybe we should all read Mark 6:4.  After that, cut lengths of J30R10 or NBR/NBR and flog ourselves with them prior to installing them in our fuel tanks.

"That idea could hold water.  Cohline's headquarters appear to be in Unit 4, Bridge Works  Honley, Holmfirth
which according to my reckoning is near Huddlesfield which, possibly, is part of Suzie Q's universe..."


Yes, nearly, just so long as you pronounce it 'onley, 'olmfirth, and 'uddersfield. 'Appen.
I'll pay a visit.