Hi all,
Just noticed a rather curious bit of information on some replacement fuel line as follows:
"GATES[R] 4219XL SAE 3OR7 Fuel Line PCV/EEC 5/16"[7.9 mm] 50 PSI [3.4 Bar] SAE 3QR7 Not For Fuel Injection Systems Made in Mexico ax080422 02:24 "

Now much/most of this is self explanatory. But what is the issue with
"Not For Fuel Injection Systems Made in Mexico"?? Is this a bit of
legalese or is it something serious technically?

best regards
J.

Fuel injected lines are designed and built to withstand the much the higher pressures of a fuel injected vehicle vs. a carb'd vehicle.

That said, I've bought used Ks where a previous owner had installed non-FI lines and they didn't burst.

But for a few les sbucks is it worth the risk?

duck wrote:Fuel injected lines are designed and built to withstand the much the higher pressures of a fuel injected vehicle vs. a carb'd vehicle.

That said, I've bought used Ks where a previous owner had installed non-FI lines and they didn't burst.

But for a few les sbucks is it worth the risk?

Ok Duck, you raise an interesting point. So we have Two issues:
1. What pressure is sufficient for fuel injection engines? This line says it is good for 50lbs or 3.4 bar.
2. What is the concern that the manufacturer singles out Mexican made fuel injection systems?

My post was regard to #2. But #1 is interesting as well.
J.

As far as the pressure, I seem to recall that the maximum pressure of the K bike fuel pump is at least 65psi.  The fuel pressure regulator reduces that to approximately 35psi which is what the injectors are calibrated for.  If the regulator fails it is possible for the pressure in the system to go to at least 65psi.

As far as compatibility with Mexican systems, doesn't some parts of Mexico run some strange alcohol based fuel in vehicles?  There may be chemical compatibility issues with Mexican fuels and the systems that run on them.

Point-Seven-five wrote:As far as the pressure, I seem to recall that the maximum pressure of the K bike fuel pump is at least 65psi.  The fuel pressure regulator reduces that to approximately 35psi which is what the injectors are calibrated for.  If the regulator fails it is possible for the pressure in the system to go to at least 65psi.

As far as compatibility with Mexican systems, doesn't some parts of Mexico run some strange alcohol based fuel in vehicles?  There may be chemical compatibility issues with Mexican fuels and the systems that run on them.

Good insight on the question of pressures. But the printed statement is about fuel injection systems "Made" in Mexico. Not the fuels themselves. The printed statement caught my eye and made me wonder about how the Mexican's could be making something so different than other manufacturers that it necessitated a warning.

My thinking is that like Brazil makes fuel out of sugar cane, Mexico may hove some odd local combustibles that some of their fuel systems are engineered for.  Since they can't be easily identified some manufacturers may just advise against using their stuff with them, but you're right, it seems kind of strange.  I mean, don't some of the U.S. car companies build vehicles in Mexico?

Point-Seven-five wrote:My thinking is that like Brazil makes fuel out of sugar cane, Mexico may hove some odd local combustibles that some of their fuel systems are engineered for.  Since they can't be easily identified some manufacturers may just advise against using their stuff with them, but you're right, it seems kind of strange.  I mean, don't some of the U.S. car companies build vehicles in Mexico?

Understood. But among the thoughts that crossed my somewhat askew mind was it a matter of some vendetta by one manufacturer against others. Not that anything like that has ever been suggested around me, etc. Just was wondering. But odd isn't it?

Point-Seven-five wrote: There may be chemical compatibility issues with Mexican fuels and the systems that run on them.

jjeffries wrote:But among the thoughts that crossed my somewhat askew mind was it a matter of some vendetta by one manufacturer against others. ...What is the concern that the manufacturer singles out Mexican made fuel injection systems?

So after some fun research into j's quote—for which he gives no helpful source and which could possibly have arisen from the spouting off of a random somebody on a random forum like, in fact, I'm doing right now —the issue seems to arise from chemical incompatibility, a difference in fuel manufacturing components (as .75 suggested) and, perhaps, syntactical problems with written English composition.

The only gasoline widely available in Mexico contains higher percentages of MTBE (rather than ethanol) in its gasoline to provide better octane results at high elevation where its largest consumer bases reside. In fact, it is required in those markets. MTBE has been banned in many USA states because of concern about groundwater pollution from leaking fuel storage tanks. Also, corn-ethanol suppliers have exerted political influence in the adoption of ethanol, and the infrastructure for blending ethanol into gasoline is exponentially more possible in the USA than in Mexico, right now anyway.

Gates 2019 XL hose is not recommended for fuel with concentrations of MTBE approaching those in the Mexican gasoline market. As .75 indicates, Gates 2019 XL hose also isn't suitable for pressures above 50psi that are developed by Brick fuel pumps. Furthermore, vehicle fuel storage at all distribution levels in Mexico seems to have a reputation of sub-USA–standard quality creating further problems with fuel condition and fuel line life.

The phrasing within j's quote is where syntax problems enter. Fuel injection systems made in Mexico are unlikely to be a problem for the hose that j cited, except if the hoses are submersed in fuel or under high pressure, both of which will cause problems regardless of where the systems are made. Fuel injection systems used in Mexico that have XL hose could develop problems because they're likely to be delivering gasoline with MTBE concentrations that are not compatible with the long life of XL hose.

My punt, how it seems to me.

Not for fuel injected systems (full stop) Maybe a full stop (period in US?) or bigger gap after systems.

Made in Mexico (the hose is made in Mekico)

The hose is rated 50psi but due to safety margins would probably survive 65psi. but not really good enough for fuel injected systems.

The pump provides flow, the pressure regulator provides pressure by partially restricting the flow, which increases the pressure to say 35psi. in rare faulty cases the return could get totally restricted and blocked. In this case the pressure would build until a hose bursts, or other failures occur, so a pressure relief valve is included in the pump, which opens at 65psi, preventing the pressure getting any higher, and so preventing any damage, but then there would be symptoms of the bike running rich.

Laitch wrote:

So after some fun research into j's quote

Damn. Just as I was about to drop some crack about cocaine in the fuel making the bikes too fast for the US market

daveyson wrote:The hose is rated 50psi but due to safety margins would probably survive 65psi. but not really good enough for fuel injected systems.

It probably would struggle at surviving a class action lawsuit from owners whose engines had been ruined by its incorrect application regardless of where it's made. Maybe Gates does make country-specific hose but j's reference doesn't indicate which market is intended for that ad; that can only be inferred by the reader.

Think of the despair experienced by some American-expat in Guadalajara whose imported Charger is strangled to death by Gates-goo in its system. 

I forget where I got this but I wonder what fuel line this K75C had.

https://i.imgur.com/23FYDAF.mp4

duck wrote:I forget where I got this but I wonder what fuel line this K75C had.

https://i.imgur.com/23FYDAF.mp4

I am going to guess it was a clamp.  One of the first times I took my "new" Moby Brick out after doing a maintenance zero on it I was doing 65mph on an expressway and noticed the strong smell of fuel. 

I pulled over and when I looked, the top of the engine block and cylinder head had puddles of fuel which was coming from a loose supply line connection at the tank.  It appeared that I must not have tightened that clamp enough when I reconnected the lines after reinstalling the tank.

Always use the correct lines and clamps, and make absolutely sure the clamps are tight.  I double check those clamps every time I have the fairing that covers them off.

Point-Seven-five wrote:Always use the correct lines and clamps, and make absolutely sure the clamps are tight..

On the second day of my ownership, my first car, a used ’59 English Ford Escort station wagon, had a fire caused by a loose fuel line. It was the perfect venue for such a fire—a flathead four that flamed like a hibachi when the hood was opened. Good times!

Laitch wrote:

Point-Seven-five wrote: There may be chemical compatibility issues with Mexican fuels and the systems that run on them.

jjeffries wrote:But among the thoughts that crossed my somewhat askew mind was it a matter of some vendetta by one manufacturer against others. ...What is the concern that the manufacturer singles out Mexican made fuel injection systems?

So after some fun research into j's quote—for which he gives no helpful source and which could possibly have arisen from the spouting off of a random somebody on a random forum like, in fact, I'm doing right now —the issue seems to arise from chemical incompatibility, a difference in fuel manufacturing components (as .75 suggested) and, perhaps, syntactical problems with written English composition.

Sorry that I couldn't give a more helpful source. It is a piece of fuel line that I have in a box of various fuel lines including BMW M/C and it was the printed part that caught my eye. I was wondering where it came from and what it was intended for when the warning caught my eye. It is helpful that I've learned that our fuel lines need to be capable of handling over 65 lb pressure.

duck wrote:I forget where I got this but I wonder what fuel line this K75C had.

https://i.imgur.com/23FYDAF.mp4

Was that a K75?

jjefferies wrote:

duck wrote:I forget where I got this but I wonder what fuel line this K75C had.

https://i.imgur.com/23FYDAF.mp4

Was that a K75?

I can't remember where I got that but I saved it on my PC as K75C on fire. When he does the walkaround I recognize the oil sump, center stand, drum brake final drive and Y-spoke rear wheel so I'm pretty sure that it is a K75.

Talking about fuel lines:
note that the lines inside the tank are specific. The outside ones have a single internal layer to protect the material of the core of the line from contact with fuel. The inside lines have two layers, one internal, the other external.
Using a standard line without this layer may create condition where cracks appear. It's not dangerous inside the tank, but the pressure will drop and troubleshooting can be very difficult as you can't see the leak...