As an example with many cars it's very time consuming to replace the timing belt and water pump, so the pump is replaced at the same time, regardless.

One of the great things about bricks is the incredible easy access for repairs. You have instant access to both,  and separately, so no need to open either unless required.

I'm with Martin about the penetrant, if need be, let it soak for a few days before trying to remove the timing cover.

By the way, someone has been at both, that's why the bolts are rounded. It also tells you that it's been a rough knuckle that's had a go at it.

daveyson wrote:By the way, someone has been at both, that's why the bolts are rounded. It also tells you that it's been a rough knuckle that's had a go at it.

I never cease to be amazed at how utterly poetic the Ozian language can be!

MartinW wrote:Start with good quality penetrant designed as a penetrant and not WD40 and a hot air gun.
Regards Martin.

Are talking about the pressure release valve or the rounded bolts here?

dallasf wrote:This bike has 168,000kms, absolutely no service records whatsoever.
. . . so I am not really afraid of "getting in there".

With that in mind, not knowing the history of the bike and with the pump already out and the seals not costing any more than $70 bucks, why wouldn't you for peace of mind?  

The moto in your signature only has ~120,000 km. Is this a different moto than the one you're dissecting? 

Regardless, two aphorisms come to mind from your comments. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread and If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Additionally, that $70 speculative cost of your pump project could easily be increased by ~$275 if the oil impeller gear shaft is pitted beyond reclamation or damaged during removal then needs to be replaced. You're only at the frontier of heartbreak. If the pump isn't leaking, many of us would just leave it alone regardless of how many miles it has logged. Determining oil pressure is one of the most simple tasks to undertake but your ardor has made it more complicated unless you remount the pump.

My own piece of mind comes from riding my moto on the open road of highlands and lowlands after the frost leaves the roads and the mud leaves the gravel. For the last 12,000 miles, I've been doing that with oil leaking past the output shaft o-ring and a clutch that sometimes slips if the revs are goosed at high speed.  It's been great fun but I'm likely to attend to those conditions in March after the cold lets up, if I can't start riding right then.   The parts are on the bench anyway, ready to help me resist the  beckoning of a road paved with good intentions.

Good luck with your project!

I faced the dreaded rear main seal on my 85 K100RT.

I spotted the tell tale leak one day but I had in coming near 70,000 miles on it and decided to let it be as it had the original clutch and figured it had to be done too. I got it to 78,000 miles riding carefully before doing it. Final decision to do it had been an upcoming France trip on the cards and feeling its better to do it in plenty of time in case of any issues.

Just bought in all the parts and for doing everything else in there. Good value. Opening it up revealed a still try clutch friction plate just coming on to the rivets. I like to think I got the very last out of that clutch.

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:This bike has 168,000kms, absolutely no service records whatsoever.
. . . so I am not really afraid of "getting in there".

With that in mind, not knowing the history of the bike and with the pump already out and the seals not costing any more than $70 bucks, why wouldn't you for peace of mind?  

The moto in your signature only has ~120,000 km. Is this a different moto than the one you're dissecting? 

Regardless, two aphorisms come to mind from your comments. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread and If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Additionally, that $70 speculative cost of your pump project could easily be increased by ~$275 if the oil impeller gear shaft is pitted beyond reclamation or damaged during removal then needs to be replaced. You're only at the frontier of heartbreak. If the pump isn't leaking, many of us would just leave it alone regardless of how many miles it has logged. Determining oil pressure is one of the most simple tasks to undertake but your ardor has made it more complicated unless you remount the pump.

My own piece of mind comes from riding my moto on the open road of highlands and lowlands after the frost leaves the roads and the mud leaves the gravel. For the last 12,000 miles, I've been doing that with oil leaking past the output shaft o-ring and a clutch that sometimes slips if the revs are goosed at high speed.  It's been great fun but I'm likely to attend to those conditions in March after the cold lets up, if I can't start riding right then.   The parts are on the bench anyway, ready to help me resist the  beckoning of a road paved with good intentions.

Good luck with your project!

Sorry, it is 168,000 kms, I'll make sure that's updated.

I guess the only reason why the pump is out is that it was suggested that the oil pressure valve should be removed if stuck, which could be the issue with the oil pressure.

Since the oil pressure valve did not come out easily (its stuck!) while the pump is in place on the bike, I removed the pump to remedy that problem. This is still stuck and marinating in penetration oil!

I took on the advice that the oil pressure could be the issue behind the chain rattling, therefore tried everything in my power to fix it.

I have taken your advice on the pump and will leave it, I just thought "why not do it" while it's out, didn't look that hard - see the below video. Once again, peace of mind.

The way I see it, I will get:

• get the pressure release value out and moving
  
• get o-ring for the oil pickup and replace
  
• screw everything back up
  
• get the oil pressure gauge and plug it in
  
• refill the oil and watch the oil drop (hopefully) via the sight glass
  
• test the amount of pressure and report back
  

Even with a brand new pump, the oil pressure would remain at 0 without that o-ring. If you're lucky the o-ring will restore oil pressure, and even eliminate the chain rattle, depending on how stretched the chain is between clicks.

dallasf wrote:I have taken your advice on the pump and will leave it, I just thought "why not do it" while it's out, didn't look that hard - 

I imagine it isn't that guy's first rodeo. If it turns out that you must rebuild the pump in the quest for mind peace, or even just replace the neglected o-ring, get some of that wrencher's music playing in the background. Anything's doable with that groove going on.

It isn't uncommon to find silicone worms in the sumps of Bricks. They're harmless and if you collect them and mash them together, you can sometimes plug minor holes in roofing with them.

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:I have taken your advice on the pump and will leave it, I just thought "why not do it" while it's out, didn't look that hard - 

I imagine it isn't that guy's first rodeo. If it turns out that you must rebuild the pump in the quest for mind peace, or even just replace the neglected o-ring, get some of that wrencher's music playing in the background. Anything's doable with that groove going on.

It isn't uncommon to find silicone worms in the sumps of Bricks. They're harmless and if you collect them and mash them together, you can sometimes plug minor holes in roofing with them.

Agreed, probably makes it look easier than what it is. 

Hi Dallas,  just re-read your post where you say there was no o-ring. Do you mean no o-ring on the pipe, or no o-ring in the gallery that the pipe goes in? Because the o-ring should be in the gallery.

Well I found an o-ring at the plumbers which is a win, gave it to me for free as he was into bikes.Turns out after removing the pump I can see the o-ring in there anyway, I assumed it was supposed to be on the pipe not inside the hole.

Quick question for the OZ guys, what do you use for sealant on water/oil pump and oil sump? Where did you get it? I have some gasket maker and sealant handy by JB Weld from repco, not sure whether that is good enough.

Thanks for everyone's help thus far.

The tube might tell you, or Google it.

Is it brittle, cracked, or flattened?  Replace it anyway, it's probably 30 years old.

daveyson wrote:The tube might tell you, or Google it.

Is it brittle, cracked, or flattened?  Replace it anyway, it's probably 30 years old.

There is no gasket on either sump or pump, it's a sealant. The suggested option comes from Germany and costs a bomb for delivery.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=3BOND+1209&_sacat=0

I have probably annoyed you guys enough, never mind.

I should have started the second paragraph with "Is the o-ring brittle..." but I got lazy.

Don't think you're being annoying, I look at threads like doing a sudoku, but better.

Everyone that replies wants to, or they wouldn't.

dallasf wrote: The way I see it, I will get: . . . the pressure release value out and moving

As you seem to have gathered, an oil pressure release valve piston stuck in the Open position could drop oil pressure, so you're right in trying to inspect it. It's an uncommon condition but possible on a neglected moto. Heating around the chamber opening with a hair dryer then tapping around the opening lightly with a small hammer might get the oil to release it. Don't worry. There are other fun methods to overcome its reluctance and get it out eventually. 

I use Permatex Ultra Black RTV sealant for metal-to-metal sealant and it works satisfactorily. Clean, dry surfaces are essential.

A rough knuckle at the frontier of heartbreak....

Dallas a good penetrant and heat can be used on both the bolts and the valve. Alternatively applying heat and penetrant over a period of time can eventually unstick most stubborn bolts or valves. WD40 is pretty useless as a penetrant as it is basically a water displacement fluid as indicated by it's name W= water D=displacement  the 40 stands for the 40th variation.
Regards Martin.

MartinW wrote:Dallas a good penetrant and heat can be used on both the bolts and the valve. Alternatively applying heat and penetrant over a period of time can eventually unstick most stubborn bolts or valves. WD40 is pretty useless as a penetrant as it is basically a water displacement fluid as indicated by it's name W= water D=displacement  the 40 stands for the 40th variation.
Regards Martin.

Ok, had a win! Pressure valve is dislodged. Will clean the pump up and reinstall.

Will go buy an oil pressure tester too.

Point-Seven-five wrote:

daveyson wrote:By the way, someone has been at both, that's why the bolts are rounded. It also tells you that it's been a rough knuckle that's had a go at it.

I never cease to be amazed at how utterly poetic the Ozian language can be!

OK I think I see that. What would be the other way to say it?

It must show that I often take a punt at how to frame a sentence.

Further, I don't know if I'm imaging this, but I think there might be a Melbourne accent, and even a slight Melbourne twist to the Australian/ Italian accent. The "Chopper" movie is a good example. Am I the only one who thinks this?

By rough knuckle I meant a bloke who does a rough job. I just googled it to see if it's only an Australian thing, it didn't say but defines it as a vagina that hasn't been shaved in a few days. Which country calls it that???????????????????

dallasf wrote:Ok, had a win! Pressure valve is dislodged. Will clean the pump up and reinstall.
Will go buy an oil pressure tester too.

Follow installation instructions and you'll always have somebody else to blame for the first failure. Curb tendencies to modify installation by divine inspiration. Reinstall the oil pressure sensor that you bathed. After that, don't buy an oil pressure tester until you first run the engine briefly to determine if the pressure relief valve was the problem. If the oil pressure light goes out, the sensor is good and you're golden but I'm fairly certain mind peace searching might be a character trait with you and that ultimately, that oil pressure gauge is likely be deployed. Maybe you can borrow one. 

daveyson wrote:Which country calls it that???????????????????

That might be translation from a dialect spoken on the Greek isle of Lesbos. More research is needed.

I thought a prickly...whatever, was somebody who was bad-tempered?

daveyson wrote:

Point-Seven-five wrote:

daveyson wrote:By the way, someone has been at both, that's why the bolts are rounded. It also tells you that it's been a rough knuckle that's had a go at it.

I never cease to be amazed at how utterly poetic the Ozian language can be!

OK I think I see that. What would be the other way to say it?

It must show that I often take a punt at how to frame a sentence.

Further, I don't know if I'm imaging this, but I think there might be a Melbourne accent, and even a slight Melbourne twist to the Australian/ Italian accent. The "Chopper" movie is a good example. Am I the only one who thinks this?

By rough knuckle I meant a bloke who does a rough job. I just googled it to see if it's only an Australian thing, it didn't say but defines it as a vagina that hasn't been shaved in a few days. Which country calls it that???????????????????

I was commenting on a truly brilliant turn of phrase.  I thoroughly enjoyed the way you described the previous mechanick's talent level.

I'm sure it wasn't a mechanic that went in there. A mechanic wouldn't be capable of reaching such levels, and even if he faked it, would be spotted by true blue rough nuckles and rejected as a wannabe.

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:Ok, had a win! Pressure valve is dislodged. Will clean the pump up and reinstall.
Will go buy an oil pressure tester too.

Follow installation instructions and you'll always have somebody else to blame for the first failure. Curb tendencies to modify installation by divine inspiration. Reinstall the oil pressure sensor that you bathed. After that, don't buy an oil pressure tester until you first run the engine briefly to determine if the pressure relief valve was the problem. If the oil pressure light goes out, the sensor is good and you're golden but I'm fairly certain mind peace searching might be a character trait with you and that ultimately, that oil pressure gauge is likely be deployed. Maybe you can borrow one. 

Well said!

Think I might get a few extra parts and truly find that mind peace. Will report back.

Appreciate all the help and the read about knuckles.

Bonus, looks like you got it sorted.

On a roll about phrases. I like the description of lots of US phrases eg, knuckle head, shovel head, pan head. Short and sweet, right to the point. And many others that don't come to mind at the moment. The above are obvious, but some I can't get defined on Google.