Hi there guys,

My oil pressure light is always on, once I turn the ignition the light stays on, when I start the bike the light is on. I am obviously not riding the bike for that reason and the chain is making a noise too, have not opened the front to see yet, but plan to do so.

Things I have tried:

• Drain oil and replace
  
• Remove oil sump and reapply silicone gasket
  
• Checked oil pressure switch, was full of old dried oil - cleaned this up and reconnected.
  

Is there anything else I can check? I can't see a lot on the net to help. Any info would be great.

Thanks for helping

Remove the oil pressure switch and connect an oil pressure gauge to it. Disconnect the fuel pump to stop it from starting and crank it over and read the pressure on the gauge. Post the reading.
Regards Martin.

One of dads bike had a similar problem 
His was caused by an earthing fault which was located at the ignition switch

Matt his chain is rattily and the tensioner is controlled by oil pressure. I was also going ask if the filter screen was clean.
Regards Martin.

MartinW wrote:Remove the oil pressure switch and connect an oil pressure gauge to it. Disconnect the fuel pump to stop it from starting and crank it over and read the pressure on the gauge. Post the reading.
Regards Martin.

Copy that, thanks.

Will need to order a pressure gauge, so will take some time. Will report back later.

Thanks again.

Matthew-Brisbane wrote:One of dads bike had a similar problem 
His was caused by an earthing fault which was located at the ignition switch

Will inspect there too. Thanks for the info.

If you have a local garage that you are friendly with they might possibly lend you one if you are willing to put down a deposit. Alcohol can always be helpful. An oil pressure test kit can be had off Ebay from $25.00 upwards. As you might not need it again, if you try not to get it dirty you can always on sell it as used once.
Regards Martin.

MartinW wrote:If you have a local garage that you are friendly with they might possibly lend you one if you are willing to put down a deposit. Alcohol can always be helpful. An oil pressure test kit can be had off Ebay from $25.00 upwards. As you might not need it again, if you try not to get it dirty you can always on sell it as used once.
Regards Martin.

Alcohol always helps! However at 25 clams I might as well get one.

I have already dumped the oil for 2nd time figuring out some gremlins, I assume the test requires no oil as it will come out of the gauge if full?

I need to address the tensior/chain situation, what do you suggest, hit that first and then do an oil pressure test?

Cheers

The test requires oil in order to measure the oil pressure. For the test there is no need to use expensive oil El Cheapo supermarket oil is fine. The gauge attaches to a fitting that screws into the oil pressure sensor hole. The tensioner requires oil pressure to tension the chain, until it has pressure the chain will have slack. What was the condition of the oil pickup screen? Was it clean?
Regards Martin.

If you have done an oil change and filter is not put back correctly it's not going to get pressure up.

An incorrect or damaged filter can do this.

So also can leaving the old seal in place as it can stick inside and also cause it to not seal.

Blocked filter. You replaced oil but not filter and mention crud inside the sump. Filter could be blocked.

Blocked or heavily restricted oil pick up. You mentioned crud but no mention of cleaning it.

In these cases the pressure not rising is going to leave the light on. A gauge is going to tell you if its oil pressure or faulty sensor. In the short term you can make a check and see if there is a short causing it by simply disconnecting it and seeing if the light goes out. If it does then it is not an oil pressure issue.

In terms of not running an oil pressure sensor, many modern cars no longer have one. Mercedes being one. They only have an oil level sensor. Ks have a sight glass.

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:If you have done an oil change and filter is not put back correctly it's not going to get pressure up.

An incorrect or damaged filter can do this.

So also can leaving the old seal in place as it can stick inside and also cause it to not seal.

Blocked filter. You replaced oil but not filter and mention crud inside the sump. Filter could be blocked.

Blocked or heavily restricted oil pick up. You mentioned crud but no mention of cleaning it.

In these cases the pressure not rising is going to leave the light on. A gauge is going to tell you if its oil pressure or faulty sensor. In the short term you can make a check and see if there is a short causing it by simply disconnecting it and seeing if the light goes out. If it does then it is not an oil pressure issue.

In terms of not running an oil pressure sensor, many modern cars no longer have one. Mercedes being one. They only have an oil level sensor. Ks have a sight glass.

I used the correct tool to place the oil filter in, I tightened but did not over tighten.

The filter is new, is it possible it could be damaged?

Old seal was definitely removed. I keep the old filter with seal in it.

The filter is new, the pickup screen had a small bit of old silicone wrapped in it, didn't look like enough to impact it though.

I removed the connection from the oil sensor and the light went out. When I grounded that wire the light came on. So it's not an oil pressure issue?

Thanks for the help

MartinW wrote:The test requires oil in order to measure the oil pressure. For the test there is no need to use expensive oil El Cheapo supermarket oil is fine. The gauge attaches to a fitting that screws into the oil pressure sensor hole. The tensioner requires oil pressure to tension the chain, until it has pressure the chain will have slack. What was the condition of the oil pickup screen? Was it clean?
Regards Martin.

The oil pressure sensor is located under the oil/water pump right? So I should screw the pressure guage in first, then fill with oil? When I opened that sensor before oil cam out, so only assumed it would happen again.

Do you think the lack of oil pressure is causing the chain noise?

Oil pickup had old silicone wrapped in it. Not a lot though.

Sorry for all the questions. Learning as I go.

You've correctly identified the location of the oil pressure switch.
The big concern is that your oil pump isn't working properly, rather than a simple electrical fault causing the light to illuminate.
You can afford to run the engine for a short while on tickover just to check this - does the oil disappear from the sight glass when the engine runs? If it does, then it makes sense to go ahead and check the actual pressure. You can do this by revving the engine a little - the oil light should flicker and go out as engine revs and oil pressure rise a bit. 
If the oil level doesn't drop at all, then the pump is not working.

The camchain tensioner on these bikes is fed by oil pressure. It is possible that a lack of oil pressure can result in a slack, rattling camchain. OTOH a quiet camchain is no indication of good oil pressure.

chris846 wrote:You've correctly identified the location of the oil pressure switch.
The big concern is that your oil pump isn't working properly, rather than a simple electrical fault causing the light to illuminate.
You can afford to run the engine for a short while on tickover just to check this - does the oil disappear from the sight glass when the engine runs? If it does, then it makes sense to go ahead and check the actual pressure. You can do this by revving the engine a little - the oil light should flicker and go out as engine revs and oil pressure rise a bit. 
If the oil level doesn't drop at all, then the pump is not working.

The camchain tensioner on these bikes is fed by oil pressure. It is possible that a lack of oil pressure can result in a slack, rattling camchain. OTOH a quiet camchain is no indication of good oil pressure.

Hi, thankfully I did watch the oil from the sight glass, but in all honesty I couldn't tell the difference between full and not full. I did also start the bike and rev'd the engine, once again not really telling the difference from the sight glass. Can these become difficult to read after time?

Is there any other tests for the oil/water pump before pulling it apart?

Yes, the oil glass does become stained and difficult to read after time (it's easy to replace btw) but you should still be able to make out a marked reduction in the oil level after starting the engine - the level should drop completely out of sight once it's running. If you're struggling to make out the oil level with the engine stopped, try leaning the bike over to the LH side - you should at least be able to make out the oil level then.

If the level doesn't drop with the engine running, then you've either got a mis-installed filter (as mentioned) or something more serious. That said, I can't imagine what could go mechanically wrong with the oil pump to cause it to stop working altogether?

Just a thought - if you've been cleaning the oil pickup, make sure you've not dislodged it - the outlet is only held in place as a push fit up inside the engine's bottom casing.

dallasf wrote:Is there any other tests for the oil/water pump before pulling it apart?

The oil switch is a simple device with a sprung electrical contact actuated by oil pressure.You haven't described how you've cleaned it but it has probably failed mechanically. It can become clogged with sludge from disuse then the movable electrical contact siezes. In America, an OEM switch costs approximately $20.

Maybe it is a problem where gauges, ratchets, sockets, goop and other esoteric stuff needs to be deployed for a remedy. One can only hope.

First go in the section marked Profile and click on Signature and enter the year and model of your bike. Do you have a workshop manual, if so what brand? Has the light coming on and noise just happened? When did the problem occur i.e. on start up or while riding. As per Chris are you sure the oil pickup pipe and screen are secure? When was the last time you changed the oil? What was the condition thin or thick and colour. Lack of oil pressure can cause chain rattle as well as other major problems.  Long shot possibly check the pressure relief valve see if it is clogged or broken spring? The pumps are pretty basic with not a lot to go wrong. More questions will probably follow. 
Regards Martin.

chris846 wrote:Yes, the oil glass does become stained and difficult to read after time (it's easy to replace btw) but you should still be able to make out a marked reduction in the oil level after starting the engine - the level should drop completely out of sight once it's running. If you're struggling to make out the oil level with the engine stopped, try leaning the bike over to the LH side - you should at least be able to make out the oil level then.

If the level doesn't drop with the engine running, then you've either got a mis-installed filter (as mentioned) or something more serious. That said, I can't imagine what could go mechanically wrong with the oil pump to cause it to stop working altogether?

Just a thought - if you've been cleaning the oil pickup, make sure you've not dislodged it - the outlet is only held in place as a push fit up inside the engine's bottom casing.

Thanks for the reply. I will have to look into a new sight glass and try my best to see the level based on your instructions.

I pretty confident the filter is installed correctly. From what I have read that you replace the old and add the new, make sure not to over tighten and ensure the old oil filter gasket is removed. Though this may have happened to others by mistake, I can assure you this isn't the case. When you say something more serious, are we talking engine failure? I just replaced an engine in a Toyota Prado so I am aware of costs and hope this is not the case.

With the oil pickup, all I did was remove some crap from it, it was not removed or detached from the engine.

Thanks again

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:Is there any other tests for the oil/water pump before pulling it apart?

The oil switch is a simple device with a sprung electrical contact actuated by oil pressure.You haven't described how you've cleaned it but it has probably failed mechanically. It can become clogged with sludge from disuse then the movable electrical contact siezes. In America, an OEM switch costs approximately $20.

Maybe it is a problem where gauges, ratchets, sockets, goop and other esoteric stuff needs to be deployed for a remedy. One can only hope.

I removed the whole switch as the oil was drained. I degreased the but as it was pretty filthy and cleaned the rest of the switch with a lint free rag.

MartinW wrote:First go in the section marked Profile and click on Signature and enter the year and model of your bike. Do you have a workshop manual, if so what brand? Has the light coming on and noise just happened? When did the problem occur i.e. on start up or while riding. As per Chris are you sure the oil pickup pipe and screen are secure? When was the last time you changed the oil? What was the condition thin or thick and colour. Lack of oil pressure can cause chain rattle as well as other major problems.  Long shot possibly check the pressure relief valve see if it is clogged or broken spring? The pumps are pretty basic with not a lot to go wrong. More questions will probably follow. 
Regards Martin.

Hey, yes (signature) that has been done already, not sure why its not showing. However, it is a 1989 k100 RS SE. I have the Haynes manual for the correct year.

I have had the bike maybe 3 months and it was a non-starter.

I gave it a major service including:

air filter
spark plugs
battery
oil filter
fuel filter
new fuel hoses
spline lube

Oil pressure light has always been on, whether the ignition is on or bike has been started. I have been unable to ride it due to the oil pressure and noise from the chain. Removing the wired connection to the oil pressure switch makes the light go off.

I can check the pickup pipe and screen is secure, but I never removed it, just cleaned off old silicone which must have come from the oil sump casing.

The oil was changed twice, the old oil wasn't too bad (had sat for some time) as in was black and thin, not sludgey or cloudy. Obviously the new oil was fine.

I checked the manual for oil release valve and will attempt tonight.

Btw I have pretty much removed the front and side plates where the spark plugs and chain are, is there anything I can check in there?

Thanks again for your help.

dallasf wrote:I removed the whole switch as the oil was drained. I degreased the but as it was pretty filthy and cleaned the rest of the switch with a lint free rag.

The small parts inside that the hole are what fail. How did you reach them to dislodge what might be stuck? Most defective switches just get replaced.

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:I removed the whole switch as the oil was drained. I degreased the but as it was pretty filthy and cleaned the rest of the switch with a lint free rag.

The small parts inside that the hole are what fail. How did you reach them to dislodge what might be stuck? Most defective switches just get replaced.

I probably not understanding the mechanics of the switch properly. I honestly just removed the switch and cleaned it. I assume the mechanics inside the switch are complicated to clean and a replacement is probably preferred?

I have read that these switches aren't really necessary, is there any truth to that?

There's nothing complicated about that switch; there are only a couple of parts. They're just inaccessible. You don't need the switch unless you want to be informed of whether there is oil pressure. Many riders find that knowledge comforting. Think for a moment though. If you didn't have that switch or light bothering you, you'd be be much more at ease. Wouldn't you? None of this questioning and pesky search for understanding would be an obstacle for riding.

Here's a fun video.

dallasf wrote:

Laitch wrote:

dallasf wrote:I removed the whole switch as the oil was drained. I degreased the but as it was pretty filthy and cleaned the rest of the switch with a lint free rag.

The small parts inside that the hole are what fail. How did you reach them to dislodge what might be stuck? Most defective switches just get replaced.

I probably not understanding the mechanics of the switch properly. I honestly just removed the switch and cleaned it. I assume the mechanics inside the switch are complicated to clean and a replacement is probably preferred?

I have read that these switches aren't really necessary, is there any truth to that?

Most cars don't have them any more. Mercedes for example don't have them going back 20 years, they have an oil level sensor, Ks have a sight glass and that's it.

92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:

dallasf wrote:

Laitch wrote:
The small parts inside that the hole are what fail. How did you reach them to dislodge what might be stuck? Most defective switches just get replaced.

I probably not understanding the mechanics of the switch properly. I honestly just removed the switch and cleaned it. I assume the mechanics inside the switch are complicated to clean and a replacement is probably preferred?

I have read that these switches aren't really necessary, is there any truth to that?

Most cars don't have them any more. Mercedes for example don't have them going back 20 years, they have an oil level sensor, Ks have a sight glass and that's it.

Why not use an oil pressure gauge that fits into the switch?

It's gone from sensing oil pressure to sensing oil level, back to oil pressure, now it's in the weeds with R&D. 

The pipe to the oil pick up,  it's sealed to the engine with an O ring, I think. I'm hoping it's brittle and cracked, or a piece missing. I'm guessing you removed the sump when you cleaned the pick up. It's easy to remove the pick up to check the O ring. If not sealing well,  the pump will suck air instead of oil, or a mix. I would not start the engine until a few basics are checked.

Good luck.

daveyson wrote:The pipe to the oil pick up,  it's sealed to the engine with an O ring, I think. I'm hoping it's brittle and cracked, or a piece missing. I'm guessing you removed the sump when you cleaned the pick up. It's easy to remove the pick up to check the O ring. If not sealing well,  the pump will suck air instead of oil, or a mix. I would not start the engine until a few basics are checked.

Good luck.

I just pulled the oil pickup, releasing it via that one screw. There was no o-ring at all. Will any old o-ring be suffice, or is there a specific type?

Thanks for the help.

Dunno, Discount Motorcycle Wreckers at Coburg probably has one, they have heaps for bricks.

Geez, the BMW part is 11 41 1 460 403 and costs $2.03. 

If you want to check a hardware or auto parts store it's a 13.3mm X 2.4mm O-ring.  Viton would be a good material.

Point-Seven-five wrote:Geez, the BMW part is 11 41 1 460 403 and costs $2.03. 

If you want to check a hardware or auto parts store it's a 13.3mm X 2.4mm O-ring.  Viton would be a good material.

Amazing, thank you so much. Shipping is probably 22 euros translating to 60 bucks Australian. Hahha

Any bearing retailer will have an O-ring for that and $5 max

It's probably because I like a bit of torture that I didn't say bring plenty of Vaseline before you go to the motorcycle wreckers.

"It's gone from sensing oil pressure to sensing oil level, back to oil pressure, now it's in the weeds with R&D. "

Erm, just a quickie,
- do the plastic oil pickups have an o-ring?

Well I have gone 'all in'.

I pulled the water/oil pump and to me it looks like its never been done, well at least for quite some time. I had one rounded bolt that took some time to get off, but finally had some luck. The front plate which houses the chain, has 4 rounded bolts I have not been able to even close to coming off. Not sure what will happen there.

I decided that I should restore the entire pump at a minimum, what do you guys think?

btw the spring looks fine, I could not get the pressure valve out (9) as per this diagram. https://servimg.com/view/17702881/109

I'll replace the o-ring too once everything is together. Let me know if I should do anything extra?

Thanks for all your help.

dallasf wrote:I decided that I should restore the entire pump at a minimum, what do you guys think?

I think you're unlikely to learn what is causing the oil pressure lamp to light by doing this rather than by analyzing the cause incrementally. It's like dealing with chest pain by doing a heart transplant first. It won't help if the cause of the pain is acid reflux.

Stubborn bolts generally yield by heating them and applying penetrant like Liquid Wrench.

I'd free up the valve and replace the "O" ring first, and see if pressure has returned.
Regards Martin.

Been there, done that...

Put the K on the middlestand and check oil level.
Start the bike and check again.
Oil gone? Good.
Oil still in glass? Bugger. Replace O-ring on the plastic oilfilter.

I am definitely not advising this, but...

The oil pump should make good pressure -30 psi plus- off the starter motor alone. So pull the connector from the tank, put your thumb (or digit of your choice) firmly over the hole where the pressure switch should be, and press the starter.
If your sleeve is full of oil, then start smiling, wipe up, put it back together, and ride happy.

It all depends on how technical you want to be 

Arlina wrote:Been there, done that...

Put the K on the middlestand and check oil level.
Start the bike and check again.
Oil gone? Good.
Oil still in glass? Bugger. Replace O-ring on the plastic oilfilter.

Thanks.

Ok, say that I do all that and everything works. However, the chain is still making that noise. Do I replace the chain and guides, or is that another whole kettle of fish?

MartinW wrote:I'd free up the valve and replace the "O" ring first, and see if pressure has returned.
Regards Martin.

Any ideas how to free up the valve?

dallasf wrote:Ok, say that I do all that and everything works. . . .

Deal with one condition at a time and don't speculate.

Start with good quality penetrant designed as a penetrant and not WD40 and a hot air gun.
Regards Martin.

If you can restore oil pressure and  after method one you can also try cranking the bike over and the oil pressure might push out the valve. Be warned it could be messy.
Regards Martin.

I'm only adding this as idle speculation - cos it's a forum and all, and there should't be any harm in that...

But I don't really see a strong link between noisy camchain and oil pressure. Firstly, I've never experienced it myself. Okay, I and my exploits are hardly the sum total of K experience, but, (a big 'but' as it happens) I have started a completely rebuilt K, without any oil pressure whatsoever (forgot to install the oil filter, in case you're interested) AND, I ran it for twenty minute or so, happily revving and listening to how healthy it sounded.

Now, two things seem relevant. 1: there was no oil pressure (none, nil, zero, splat) and there was definitely no camchain rattle. 2: the camchain tensioners on these bikes have a fairly tenacious ratchet mechanism, which ratchets up with oil pressure against chain slackness, and which keeps the chain tight even when the engine stops and the oil pressure drops. The tensioner even has a spring inside it which does the same job as the oil pressure and tensions the chain on its own. (I'm still on 2 btw) so I can't really see that a sudden loss of oil pressure would cause the chain to go immediately slack. Also (still on 2, bear with me) the engine that I experimented with so imaginatively had been totally rebuilt -it had never had any oil pressure to ratchet out the tensioner and take up the chain slack. All that happened was that, on assembly, I allowed the spring inside the tensioner to expand and take up the chain slack. No chain rattle, nope. Twenty minutes. Rev rev rev.

So I don't get the oil pressure/chain noise thing.

True, but in my never ending quest to always choose the lazy man's option, I'd just install the other ring, and hope that the chain rattle disappears.

Lazy is good. Any fool can run around wasting energy.
Look at those lions, pretty much the head honchos out on the serengeti, and they just lie about in the sun all day long. And nobody ever walks up and taps them on the nose and says 'hey you lazy slob, those gazelles aren't going to chase themselves'

Probably a bit remiss of me to not give more context.

This bike has 168,000kms, absolutely no service records whatsoever. I took the bike on to better understand how they work (project) so I am not really afraid of "getting in there".

With that in mind, not knowing the history of the bike and with the pump already out and the seals not costing any more than $70 bucks, why wouldn't you for peace of mind? You would feel pretty comfortable not having to do it for some time.

I suppose the same thought process applies to the chain, from my knowledge with cars (Mercedes) if that chain goes you are pretty much f^&ked.

As an example with many cars it's very time consuming to replace the timing belt and water pump, so the pump is replaced at the same time, regardless.

One of the great things about bricks is the incredible easy access for repairs. You have instant access to both,  and separately, so no need to open either unless required.

I'm with Martin about the penetrant, if need be, let it soak for a few days before trying to remove the timing cover.

By the way, someone has been at both, that's why the bolts are rounded. It also tells you that it's been a rough knuckle that's had a go at it.