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K100-forum.com » Technical, repair and troubleshooting » Engine and transmission » Newbie not starting question

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1Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Newbie not starting question Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:17 am

corran57

corran57
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Hi Everyone, 

Longtime stalker first time poster. I have a 84' K100, was running well until i lost fuel pump and injectors (standing to long, rubber baffle melted).

I have replaced pump and injectors and she won't start. Here's the trick:

  • Fuel Pump is working
  • Injectors working
  • we have spark
  • lines new and cleaned checked
  • new fuel
  • Tried a second working EFI compt


After kicking it over a bit I can disconnect the fuse for the fuel system and it will run from the fuel in the cylinders. Also if I disconnect the Fuel pump she will run.

I would be thinking Fuel Pump, but it is working so the problem would be that it is flooding, but there are injectors. Maybe regulator?

Other conditions, air box is out ATM, though that is new so i could replace fuel lines.
Anything else you need to know?

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Jas

    

2Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:31 am

Rick G

Rick G
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Sounds like one or more of the injectors are permanently open and fuel is in abundance.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

3Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:15 pm

corran57

corran57
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RicK G wrote:Sounds like one or more of the injectors are permanently open and fuel is in abundance.

Interesting, thanks RickG. I'll test that and get back.

    

4Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:21 pm

Point-Seven-five

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corran57 wrote:I have a 84' K100, was running well until i lost fuel pump and injectors (standing to long, rubber baffle melted).
How long was it standing since last it ran?  I too am thinking one or more injectors are stuck open.  Have you run any cleaners through the system?  I would suggest putting Chevron Textron Fuel System cleaner. 

Dump some in the tank, run the fuel pump cranking the engine for a while to circulate it and let the bike sit for a day or two while you recharge the battery, then give it another try.  Do this exercise a couple times and possibly the injectors will free themselves.  If not, you will need to pull them and send them out to be cleaned.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

5Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:20 pm

corran57

corran57
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Thanks, they are new injector's but I will look into them today. I hasn't checked for stuck open. Will left you know.

    

6Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:51 am

corran57

corran57
active member
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Ok So little update.

All the injectors were firing, but it seem to be a lot of fuel. So i tested a second hand inject i pricked up form the wreckers some time ago. Once pressured up it seem to be a much finer spray.

So i'm going to chase up some more. Let this be a lesson to me, just because some guy in a forum says you can use car injectors, doesn't mean you can.

I'll keep you posted.

Jas

    

7Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:26 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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On car injectors there are threads on this. You need to be sure of the injectors you are buying as it only applies to a very few car models and part numbers. The thing is that the K fuel system runs at 36psi and not many injectors run that fuel pressure.

A lot of members have spares lying around too that could be cleaned and new seals fitted and might be a better buy or swap.

No fear any of the fuel lines got reversed when you were doing the job?


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 51,800 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

8Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:36 am

Holister

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corran57 wrote:Ok So little update.

.......... just because some guy in a forum says you can use car injectors, doesn't mean you can.
You can't believe everything you read on the internet.

When you observed them firing, was it a continuous flow or intermittent?
Have you got any numbers from the injectors you had and ones you've tried?

The #210 injector was specifically designed/made for the K100 8V. Many throw them away in favour of what they think are "upgrade' injectors. Generally, all that's needed to do is give them a good clean and replace the kit. Bosch EV1 injectors should be good for around 400k to 500k km.
Here's a link to some info I put together about injectors for the K100 8V. Make your own mind up as to which injector to use. Keep in mind that some of the discussion on that thread is about K1100.

A possibility is that somewhere in your fuel injection system there's an earth short, either in the wiring harness or one of the injectors. To test this, with ignition off, first measure Ω across FICU pin #12 and #9. You should be reading around 4Ω with all 4 injectors connected or 16Ω for each injector individually.
Then you can measure Ω from #12 to earth (bat neg) to determine if there is any earth short.


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808		 Newbie not starting question Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

9Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:00 am

92KK 84WW Olaf

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That's a really good link on the injectors.

It mentions the sturdy little Yugo car sharing the 705 injectors with the 16 valve K engines but run at 43.5psi in the car whereas Inge mentioned the 16 valve FPR retains the 36.25psi pressure same as on the 8 valve engines. Looks like its designed to run at either pressure but presumably with different controls.

I am not sure how many markets that model Yugo was available in. We regard it as an Eastern Bloc car and didn't see too many of them over here but there are lots of them out there as they are/were a proverbial workhorse.

After re reading the threads I reckon too, stick with the 210 injector.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 51,800 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

10Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:14 am

corran57

corran57
active member
active member
First off thanks so much for your suggestions and advice. 

She is running again!

The answer was the injectors. Wrong injectors meant to much fuel flooding the chamber. I happened to be heading to Melbourne, so armed with your advice I dropped into [url=http://motorcycle-wreckers.com.au/]DMW[/url] and they found a couple of #210's out the back. 

I'm thinking of looking at some #415's down the tract, but at this stage i have the rest of the build to go. Moral of the story ask Holister before purchase  Very Happy

Now where can I find out about third party instrument clusters?

    

11Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:58 am

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
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corran57 wrote:I'm thinking of looking at some #415's down the tract
 Slow learner...


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

12Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:18 pm

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
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corran57 wrote:She is running! . . . The answer was the injectors. . . .
cheers



Last edited by Laitch on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : To get my post to conform to reality)

    

13Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:12 am

corran57

corran57
active member
active member
I like to think i'm adventurous, plus I've read some nice things about the #415's. 

Yep Air box is re-installed.

    

14Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:16 am

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
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corran57 wrote: Yep Air box is re-installed.
Can't do better than that.



Last edited by Laitch on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : More reality therapy)

    

15Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:35 am

Holister

Holister
Life time member
Life time member
corran57 wrote:I like to think i'm adventurous, plus I've read some nice things about the #415's. 
Unless there's some data to back those "nice things" up, it will be just subjective hearsay. I've not fitted them but from what I've read and been told, those that know what they're doing and who have fitted #415's have also fitted an adjustable FPR and bumped the fuel pressure up a smidge to compensate for the lean mix they give. IMO more trouble than its worth.
Cheers


__________________________________________________

1989 K100RT     VIN  0097367 (naked)  
1996 K1100RS   VIN  0451808		 Newbie not starting question Austra12    Fuel:  95 Octane
Engine Oil: Nulon Full Synthetic 15W50
Gear Box Oil:  Nulon Synthetic 75W90
    

16Back to top Go down   Newbie not starting question Empty Re: Newbie not starting question Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:24 pm

corran57

corran57
active member
active member
Holister wrote:
corran57 wrote:I like to think i'm adventurous, plus I've read some nice things about the #415's. 
Unless there's some data to back those "nice things" up, it will be just subjective hearsay. I've not fitted them but from what I've read and been told, those that know what they're doing and who have fitted #415's have also fitted an adjustable FPR and bumped the fuel pressure up a smidge to compensate for the lean mix they give. IMO more trouble than its worth.
Cheers

Well it won't be for a while as i have a lot of other work to do on the build, and good point about the messing around. Thanks heaps for your advice.

    

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