Hi does anyone know what bulbs are to replace in switch? No markings at all snapped connector wire. Or if you need resistor for LED replacement due to current?
pete

Hey Pete
not sure what you are talking about mate
can you explain the problem?

Hi viney.
In the hazard switch theres a bulb mines broken off , looked for replacement bulbs but cant find them. So wondered if antone knew where to get hold of them.
An led would be easy to installas replacement but didnt know if id need resistor in line to keep voltage to 12V or just to straight wire (rule of thumb being 3w bulbs in "idiot lights" yeah i know very HONDA speak!!!
Inside switch the bulb areas just a secion so itd be easy to wire from outside to in via soldered "main wires" of switch. Going to do that with ABS switch ( which is going to be spotlights ) .
Seems a lot of hassle i know just for a bulb but cant bring myself to use the toggle switchs (kept a few from a metro etc ).
Not missing the hondas especially when one press equals start.
pete

Hey Pete

Hmmm from what I have seen the hazard switches on the K are just a black toggle switch with a white hazard symbol on it, no lights at all inside. Maybe yours is an aftermarket version (or maybe the lights don't work in mine either....... dun dun dunnnnn )

But if you feel you need to have the light in the switch it will not be any problem at all to straight wire it

Mine's got the factory-fitted black and white rocker switch...no light bulb.

Mine has the genuine BMW Hazard Warning switch and there is no light in the switch.
Regards,
K-BIKE

K-BIKE wrote:Mine has the genuine BMW Hazard Warning switch and there is no light in the switch.
Regards,
K-BIKE

So do mine, and wen you turn on the hazards, both turnning lamps in the instrument cluster starts to blink.
Best regards
JAP

I replaced the hazard switch on a friends K75 last year. The original switch had three wires, the replacement only two. I can't remember if the replacement lights up or not, because I wasn't looking for it at the time. Some time afterwards I opened the old switch to see what was inside, and found much corrosion and the remains of a small bulb. I suspect that the three wire switch has a bulb and the two wire does not, but i'm dammed sure not going to open a new switch to find out!!!
By the way the old switch cleaned up nicely, and I dumped the bulb and converted it to two wire. The ends of the wires were corroded so I replaced them with a couple of lengths from a scrapped car. It will be fitted to my own K100RT when I can bother to remove the tank to get at the connection socket.

I just checked my 2 bikes, and none has a bulb in the warning switch.
Having a bulb in the switch is redundant as both flasher lights (in the pod) are blinking together when the Warning is ON. It's pretty difficult to miss them!

my original switch flashes

Hi Elle, if it helps, my switch is apart because it doesn't work and there is a bulb in it. The switch is a spdt and the bulb is across the white/blue and brown wires to the switch. It looks like a grain of wheat type bulb and looks difficult to change, very tight working area.
Martin

On my bike, the switch has a bulb / light inside it. It blinks together with the hazard lights and the indicators.

I do not know the wiring yet, haven't open it.

REgards,

I have 4 used hazard switches, I do not know from what models they were removed. I bought them used.
3 switches have 3 wires, 1 switch has only 2.
All 4 have transparent red lenses with the hazard label in white.
I took 1 three wire switch apart and here is what I found;
There is a bulb. One of the 2 micro wires on the bulb was broken off. The bulb is wired between Blue/White & Yellow/Violet. (This does not seem to agree with another member's post above????)
I Installed a new 12V "Grain of Wheat" bulb from my model train supplies. It is not an exact fit, being slightly longer & skinnier and somewhat lower wattage.



The switch appears to be a SPDT switch with a factory installed stop block to limit it's travel in one direction creating in effect a SPST unit. (I'm not 100% sure of that fact).
Once repaired and tested, the switch was installed on my 1985 K100rs (was not equipped with one originally).
Testing the switch on the bike with KOEO, the hazards flash normally, but there is still no light in any position.
I have not started the engine to see if perhaps the flasher unit may light the switch only when the engine is running. I have no tank installed at this time.
Following are the resistance readings for all wires in both switch positions:
Switch off: YEL/VIOL to BLU/WHT = 55 Ohms, BLU/WHT to BWN = Open, YEL/VIOL to BWN = Open
Switch on: YEL/VIOL to BLU/WHT = 55 Ohms, BLU/WHT to BWN = 55 Ohms, YEL/VIOL to BWN = 1.3 Ohms.
Switch wiring on the diagram is as follows: BWN = Earth, BLU/WHT = Flasher Unit Terminal "C", YEL/BWR = Flasher Unit Terminal W.
If I have this correct, Closing the Flasher switch connects Flasher Unit Terminal W to Ground and Flasher unit Terminal 1 to ground through the bulb.
Since I have no knowledge of how the flasher unit works internally that is the limit of my understanding.
It seems that on my machine the flasher works equally well with or without the bulb wired into the switch.
I would guess that the flasher unit may be designed to activate the bulb through the BLU/WHT wire connection but it does not (at least with the engine off).
I would like to ask OTTO59 (above) what year & model he has that the switch lights on and if the switch light works both with KOEO and KOER (running)?
I would ask Inge to study the diagram he posted in a similar thread to see what should occur at the switch bulb & when.
Hope you all like the photos.
Regards, ibj...

I just repaired a blue light switch which I think is specific to the police bikes but maybe for spot lights.
I used a small blue LED and instead of attempting to put the wires under the contacts I drilled 2 very small holes and took the wires outside to the solder terminals, it all works very well so far but I think the LED will be a bit more resistant to the vibration and hits that cause the wheat grain bulbs to give up. Time will tell, I will try to remember to repost in 20 years with some results.

brown wire looks to be in the wrong place or the lamp is to the wrong terminal for the earthy side

the lamp should go from the switched side on one leg and the brown on the other

The switch appears to be as originally designed.
There are factory made "channel" pathways in the switch body that lead to the individual contacts for the center (Yellow/Violet) and Top (Blue/White) contacts. The original bulb is wired along these channels.
The 2 wire switch that I have does not contain the bulb circuit/hence it has no Blue/White wire.
The bulb is correctly wired between BLUE/WHITE and YELLOW/VIOLET.
I am not sure where you got the information saying that the bulb should be wired to the brown earth wire, or is that simply an opinion from you on how to make the bulb operate?????
I don't fully understand what you mean.
Thanks, ibj...

Further inspection shows that this switch is not designed to connect the switch contacts to the BLU/WHITE wire at any time, in its present (SPST) configuration.
As I mentioned in my orig. post, there is a factory installed "bump stop" under 1 end of the switch cover to intentionally prevent it from travelling to the opposite end (BLU/WHITE) contact........
If the Block is removed from under the cover, the switch becomes a SPDT. ON/OFF/ON switch. If it were used in that configuration it would be connected between YEL/VIOL - BWN in the first position, OFF in the center, and connected between YEL/VIOL - BLU/White in the other ON position.
In the last position (that is currently blocked by the stopper) the light would operate along with perhaps some (other) accessory.
My best guess is that for other functions, BMW simply moves the bump stop block to the opposite side of the switch housing and changes the insignia tile to match the function. For instance for heated grips, they may intend for the light to operate and for flashers, it's not designed to do so? Best guess.
Simply a matter of using one part for different functions.
I can not yet explain why some folks report having that flasher switch with the light operable, when it doesn't seem designed to do so, at least on the 85rs

One of the big questions now days is, is it an original switch or did it come from another bike 10 years ago. Ks now are a very mix and match bike because skinflints like me don't buy OEM and use secondhand parts that will do the job.

verry true rick
and yes it is an opinion to how "possibly " the circuit might work
simple electronics tells us that we must have some form of potential difference to make a light glow .

When I said it was an original switch, I intended to say a genuine BMW switch.
My 85rs did not come with a hazard switch installed. I don't know what year/model this switch was taken from.
I could not find a reference to the engineering number "03 8330".

The early switches had a bulb in them and a transparent red "window".

There's a tiny bulb holder moulded into the inner body of the switch (it's still there on the later ones and in fact on all the single operation switches such as the ABS test).

The bulb has a habit of jumping out of the holder and can jam the switch if it ends up under the rocker.

The bulb was deleted at some stage. Probably because of warranty claims when it failed and possibly because someone reasoned that a tell-tale in the switch was less likely to tell an owner that the hazards were on than the two sodding great big green lights on the dash flashing in unison.

thatThanks for clearing that up, Mike....
My question at this time is. My switch has 3 wires & a bulb. My bike has 3 wires connected to it.
The flasher only requires the YEL/VIOL. connection to BWN (earth) to operate it.
What is the third wire in the harness plug (connected to the bulb wire contact (BLU/WHT) for and how/when does it operate?
Appears to me that if the "bump stop" in the switch were removed, the switch would then be an OFF-ON-OFF and if then moved to the opposite position, there would be a connection between BLU/WHT & YEL/VIOL. What would happen?????
Currently the switch connects YEL/VIOL, (Flasher unit Pin #W) to BWN (Earth) .......in the other scenario, Pin #W to earth would be opened and PIN #W would be connected to Pin #C. I'm not brave enough to try that!!!!
We need someone here who understands the diagram of the actual flasher relay that INGE posted in a similar forum!
Can anyone say what BLU/WHT at pin #C of the flasher relay does ......and what would happen if it were connected via switch to Pin #W???

ibj ...have a look at the diagrams in the interactive diagrams section ...then flashers then internal wiring

is this what your looking for ?

wire im talking about is marked "c" and looks like a positive output wire this should be the posiive to the globe or unused terminal

you might have to chase the cabling to ensure that the switch wiring is in fact the correct way to the loom and then flasher unit .....just use a multi meter with a loose tap into the connector that follows the extra (what we think is active + ) wire and earth to see if in fact it is the right one ....or wired to the correct location

all the other control cables for indicators switch when active low ..(earth - negative ) as input controls



this has not been high on my list of "must do" things ...as mike suggests ...im happy to see the dash lights flashing away ...ill get around to it maybe one day .

I'm not that knowledgeable in the electronics diagrams for the internal flasher parts, (symbols, diodes, etc.)
I think we both agree that pin #C at the flasher relay is probably an output FROM the relay to the switch contact, where the bulb is also connected to that contact.
I'm guessing you are suggesting that I hook a voltmeter to the BLU/WTE wire at the switch connector and see what I get when the flasher is turned on???
I can do that tomorrow.
I have to guess that the pin #C on my flasher does not put out positive voltage to the BLU/WHT wire. If it did, the bulb would light since the switch is closed, thereby connecting the YEL/VIL (Pin W) to earth.
Since the opposite side of the bulb is also connected at the YEl/VIOL. wire contact, it too would be grounded through the closed switch.
The only other thing that needs to be looked at is to see if there is any difference at Pin #C between KOEO and KOER? I can not start the engine now because the tank is off.

Just found this simplified diagram on another forum.
It would seem to indicate that Pin C is indeed for an indicator lamp.

of corse there could be a fault in the voltage comming out of the relay . but testing is the best way to find out .

most suspect would be the diode just before the output terminal , as this would be the most likely place , given that all the other functions are correct .

always best to prove a fault before you fix it .

So, Charlie...
Are you proficient in reading & understanding the internal electronics in the relay? Sounds like it. Anyway is it your understanding that pin #C should be "positive voltage" OUT from the relay?
My other question remains: What conditions are necessary to switch it on? Is it possible as I have proposed that it requires both Key on power and the engine actually running before it would switch on?????
Thanks, ibj......

it follows the right hand indicator circuit

but the lamp will only be active when the switch in in the on position (thats when it gets its earth reference and is able to glow )



so if your flashers work as normal then it should also operate

the diode i marked in red is a one way type function and is definatly + out

I think I understand......It should glow with the key on, flashers operating even if the engine itself has not been started.
Mine does not......perhaps I'll plug in a spare flasher relay & try that before moving forward.
Thanks, again

Well the problem is solved. I had a spare flasher relay from a 1985 K100rt. The one removed from my rs (Black one on the right # 61 31 1 459 224, appears correct per the MAX Fiche.
The Wherle #54 210 001 looks somewhat different (GREEN) . The green one now installed makes the dash switch blink.
The question remains: Is the black one removed defective or just not designed to flash the switch????
Also: Is the green one an earlier model that was superseded by the black one?

if you open it up you will probably find a blown diode ...most likely scenario on that output ...(d2?) it will be black and maybe the circuit board under as well be blackened

they are cheep and 10 cents would buy the part ....look for an 1n4004 type

you will probably find that manufacture changes happened over time ...we have seen a few differences in modules ...including the design of the bulb monitor unit as well

but looking at the lid on the one you remooved there is no indication of the c output ...could it have been deleted in the design over time ?

but in all cases the same functionality is usually acheived

but a good result for you ...congrats

We can safely close this thread.
The attached pics will show that as you indicated, there is no function for C in this design. It appears that they removed to switch bulb feed as unnecessary when they changed from the green box to the present one. As we see in the photos the pin for C leads to nowhere on the board. Not a bad diode, no diode at all.
At least, in the future, when someone asks again about having a bulb in the switch for the Hazard Flasher, we can tell them how to test for bulb resistance Ohms at the (3 wire) switch plug and if working, advise that they'll have to find an old green flasher relay if they want it to function. I learned a LOT today! Thanks!

yep updated "fit list" applied here, i guess

those " through hole lands" are actually where the component should be fitted ....but like many things ...in revision ...probably deleted from the list .

good work for investigating further ,,,not many bother .

like all things ....we never actually get to know the full story up front , its all a mystery till we find the issue unless you are inge ...and have an almost encyclopedic memory and great research skills .

btw ...i would be purchasing a diode and installing it now ...before you forget what its all about .

that way you will have an exchange unit at hand in the future ....with all the functions (dont forget to mark the case properly )

cheers !

be interesting to know what the Diode that is missing is... I had to repair my switch this morning as the middle wire had broken off, it is also a surprise that all the switches don't have bulbs in which are on when the lights are on so you can see them. It certainly wouldn't have to be bright. In todays age I would suppose a very low wattage led would be ideal...