fuel sender dead light

nino · 1 fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:25 pm

nino

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Hi, everybody. Is there any possibility to activate early fuel sender 1983, on next generation instruments 1986 with only one fuel light (5 l), instead 4 l and 7 l (red and yellow) like on earlier instrument?

Best regards

Inge K. · 2 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:32 pm

Inge K.

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Have a look at this thread.

nino · 3 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:39 pm

nino

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Inge K. wrote:Have a look at this thread.

I know, I know. But must be some way to do it

Inge K. · 4 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:45 pm

Inge K.

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nino wrote:But must be some way to do it

Yes, it is. Install a conductive film and level pcb from a early model in your cluster.

nino · 5 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:03 pm

nino

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What is conductive film?

Inge K. · 6 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:07 pm

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nino · 7 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:15 pm

nino

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Thanks Inge. Do you have a picture of pcb?

Inge K. · 8 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:18 pm

Inge K.

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This is the early version (which you need).

fuel sender dead light 22810

ibjman · 9 Can you give me early part numbers? Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:19 pm

ibjman

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I have an 88 speedo assy on an early 85 K100rs. I need to install the early pcb and the blue printed circuit to restore the function of the fuel leval warning lights.

Can anyone give me the proper part numbers for the early fuel light (speedo?) control board and the needed printed circuit????

ibjman@cox.net

Thanks in advance

Inge K. · 10 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:30 am

Inge K.

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Pcb: 62 11 1 459 712

About the conductive film, you have to do some research before purchasing.

The part # on the online fiche seems to have been put together rather late on a Saturday.

Up to 04/85: 62 11 1 459 902
No info: 62 11 1 459 903
From 04/85: 62 11 1 459 902

Corrected info found at post #39.

Rather expensive parts if buyed new: $145.71 / $241.25

Last edited by Inge K. on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correcting info.)

ibjman · 11 Thank You.... Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:33 am

ibjman

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OK!.....unfortunately, I have a brand new (NOS) 62 11 1 459 713 which appears to be substantially different from the one pictured in the earlier posts.

I do not understand the wording in the description between:

KRFTST.ANZ9X (TO 04/85)

and....

KRFTST.ANZ7X (TO 04/85) (The one I have)

62 11 1 459 712

PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD - KRAFTST.ANZ.9X (to 04/85)

62 11 1 459 712

PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD - KRAFTST.ANZ.9X (to 04/85)

62 11 1 459 712

PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD - KRAFTST.ANZ.9X (to 04/85)

ibjman · 12 How to replace the conductive film Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:49 am

ibjman

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I have a "donar" speedo from a 1985 K100RT. The las time I looked at one of these it looked like the conductive film was not easily removable......can you give me any hints on how to remove it without destroying it in the process??

Inge K. · 13 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:51 am

Inge K.

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ibjman wrote: I do not understand the wording in the description between:

KRFTST.ANZ9X (TO 04/85)

and....

KRFTST.ANZ7X (TO 04/85) (The one I have)

The difference is that the housing was changed from 7 to 9 screws, prior to the change low level warning pcb.

If you got a cluster from -88. it would have 9 screws, but the difference is only a cutout in the pcb.

Inge K. · 14 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:24 am

Inge K.

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ibjman wrote:I have a "donar" speedo from a 1985 K100RT. The las time I looked at one of these it looked like the conductive film was not easily removable......can you give me any hints on how to remove it without destroying it in the process??

Remove all screws (exept the small one in the middle, that isn`t needed).
And have a look at the reply on 16 oct. in this thread.

In that link you also see a picture of the 9 screw version with the newer pcb.......
it could be that it`s more difference in the old 7x/9x than just the cut out.

ibjman · 15 I see Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:36 am

ibjman

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OK, I see. Looks like something I can do.

I'm guessing that if I remove the speedo board from the early 85 7 screw model to install in the otherwise correctly working 1988 9 screw housing, that I may have to carve a small corner hole in the 7 screw pcb in order to allow access to the corner screw.

The upper left (as viewed) photo in the "this thread" you referred to.....that pcb behind the tachometer is actually the "speedo" board, correct? ..........so that board in the far upper left corner actually controls the low fuel lamps in the opposite lower right corner of the housing?

I hate to keep asking what might appear to be "the same questions", but I wonder if you have a pic anywhere that shows the actual componants on the board that contol the fuel lights.

ibjman · 16 Perhaps this would be a better option? Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:45 am

ibjman

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Perhaps I'm engineering this in the wrong direction. Maybe it would be better for me to install the actual speedo/odo frame and the perfect clock face out of the 88 housing into the 85 donor speedo & use that........but then I might loose the gortex vents like are in the back of the 88.

I'm just not sure which way to go. I have a perfect unit from an 88 K75 that works correctly in every way except the fuel lights. I wish to keep the odo from the 88 as it matches most closely the approx miles from the failed original unit and the clock, tach and gear indicators are all great. But.....it does not seem practical to engineer in a late model tank with a float so that the red only fuel light will operate. Hence I need to make the yellow and red fuel lights operate in the 88 housing by changing the pcb & the coductive film.

Either way........seems risky

nino · 17 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:18 am

nino

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Look at this: almost new, no scratches, no dent, only 600 USD

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Instrument-Cluster-for-a-Classic-BMW-K100-K100RS-or-K100RT-/120882826803?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c252d8e33

Rick G · 18 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:52 am

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nino wrote:Look at this: almost new, no scratches, no dent, only 600 USD

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Instrument-Cluster-for-a-Classic-BMW-K100-K100RS-or-K100RT-/120882826803?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c252d8e33

Hmmmm That Gulf Coast BMW has a habit of asking a bit too much for things and looks like things haven't changed.

nino · 19 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:16 am

nino

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Rick G wrote:

nino wrote:Look at this: almost new, no scratches, no dent, only 600 USD

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Instrument-Cluster-for-a-Classic-BMW-K100-K100RS-or-K100RT-/120882826803?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c252d8e33

Hmmmm That Gulf Coast BMW has a habit of asking a bit too much for things and looks like things haven't changed.

But, that unit has a value as historic value. Look at pictures

Rick G · 20 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:19 am

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It's not quite that historic Nino Laughing

Inge K. · 21 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:13 pm

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ibjman wrote:OK!.....unfortunately, I have a brand new (NOS) 62 11 1 459 713 which appears to be substantially different from the one pictured in the earlier posts.

Digging a bit deeper in this subject (and getting more confused) I found out that it`s another pcb between the two versions in my photo`s.
This between version is both in 7 & 9 screw version, and probably is the two older one in the parts fiche.
It seems like it`s just one sensor circuit removed (using only the lower sensor), and has a delay circuit added.

So it seems like this is a improved version for the early thermistor sensor, then you don`t have to change the conductive film and its plastic frame as the connectors is similar to the later resistor float sensor.

It could also be a early version for the float level sensor.........but if I remember correctly (which happens more and more seldom) the 9 screw cluster was introduced far earlier than the float level sensor.

fuel sender dead light Tankan10

ibjman · 22 That's great information! Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:15 pm

ibjman

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Do we have any way to get part numbers for these?

Inge K. · 23 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:25 pm

Inge K.

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As said in the previous post, that this probably is the ones in the parts fiche
(improved versions?)

You did mention that you got one that was different to the ones I earlier posted,
and that it got the same part number as on the online fiche. (7 screw version).

Does it look like the down, left?

ibjman · 24 In translation to English.... Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:39 pm

ibjman

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In translating the pictured text to english, it appears that the top photo is for the pcb for the early system with the in tank resistance sensor stick.

Further it appears that the lower photo is for the late system that incorporates the red sensor light switch within the variable resistor board on the tank float sensor unit.

I am unable to tell what may be the difference between the 2 pcbs both shown in the lower photo.

From these photos it shows that my only option is the pcb in the top photo, since I can not add a tank float assembly.

ibjman · 25 My part #62 11 1 459 713 (New Old Stock) Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:54 pm

ibjman

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Inge K. · 26 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:03 am

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Both pictures says widerstandsgeber im tank, which is resistor sensor in tank.

~~Both systems have a variable resistor(s)~~, older systems have two thermistors which the fuel keeps cool, newer system a float which ~~varies the resistance~~.is connected to a switch.

In the lower photo the 7 screw and the 9 screw version is showed.
(improved version to be used together with thermistor sensor)
Does the one to the left look like the one you got?

Corrected info is found in post #39.

Last edited by Inge K. on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correcting info.)

Inge K. · 27 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:08 am

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Inge K. wrote:Does the one to the left look like the one you got?

I`m typing (and translating) rather slow, by judging your picture...you got the down left.

ibjman · 28 yes Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:17 am

ibjman

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looks like the one at the bottom left (I think).

The point here is that I have a speedometer assembly off an 1988 K75 which oiginally incorporated a fuel Float sensor, not a resistor stick. I can put the pcb board I have in that cluster, but I will probably have to replace the conductive foil printed circuit to do so.
I am unsure which printed circuit board part number indicates the blue foil conductive film for the early system.

Inge K. · 29 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:20 am

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Inge K. wrote:

ibjman wrote:OK!.....unfortunately, I have a brand new (NOS) 62 11 1 459 713 which appears to be substantially different from the one pictured in the earlier posts.

Digging a bit deeper in this subject (and getting more confused) I found out that it`s another pcb between the two versions in my photo`s.
This between version is both in 7 & 9 screw version, and probably is the two older one in the parts fiche.
It seems like it`s just one sensor circuit removed (using only the lower sensor), and has a delay circuit added.

So it seems like this is a improved version for the early thermistor sensor, then you don`t have to change the conductive film and its plastic frame as the connectors is similar to the later resistor float sensor.

It could also be a early version for the float level sensor.........but if I remember correctly (which happens more and more seldom) the 9 screw cluster was introduced far earlier than the float level sensor.

ibjman · 30 I also have.... Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:20 am

ibjman

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I also have a "donor" speedometer cluster" from a 1985 K100rt.
I hope to be able to remove the blue foil cunductive printed circuit from that unit and install it in the newer unit taken from the 1888 K75 adding the NOS pcb board i have

Inge K. · 31 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:32 am

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The connectors you got on the -85 cond. film isn`t used on the pcb you have.

Here is a picture of a later cond. film, with connectors for the 7 litre lamp removed...similar to your pcb.

fuel sender dead light Ledefi10

Inge K. · 32 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:56 am

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Ergo: what`s needed to use your pcb in the -88 cluster, would be to make a cut out for the cluster screw and drill a new hole for the repositioned pcb mounting screw.

ibjman · 33 You are so kind Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:03 am

ibjman

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You have spent hours helping me with this. Thank You.
Hopefully, the conductor film in your picture will be what is already inside of my newer cluster.
I can tell you that my newer cluster was designed to use with the float gauge tank.
It has the red fuel light only, but it does not operate correctly when mounted on an early bike with the resistor sensor like mine.

That is what I am trying to fix

ibjman · 34 I can do that Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:04 am

ibjman

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Inge K. wrote:Ergo: what`s needed to use your pcb in the -88 cluster, would be to make a cut out for the cluster screw and drill a new hole for the repositioned pcb mounting screw.

Easy

Inge K. · 35 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:10 am

Inge K.

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ibjman wrote: I can tell you that my newer cluster was designed to use with the float gauge tank.
It has the red fuel light only, but it does not operate correctly when mounted on an early bike with the resistor sensor like mine.

Then the pcb did look like the one in the page I linked to, I`ll guess.

We`re all happy to know about the result after you have changed the pcb
(it might help others).

Note: it is a trim pot on the pcb, so you can adjust the sensitivity..........if needed.

ibjman · 36 WOW! Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:38 am

ibjman

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Are you a BMW Engineer?

I had thought that the trim pot on that board was for minor calibration of the speedometer. I learn something, (Several things) every day!!!

I'd like to write a story with photos about the experiences I've found while reserrecting this Junkyard dog......but as you know.....I tend to be quite (overly) "wordy" and I'm uncertain of what format would be most appropriate for it.
Thanks again for all you bright knowledge & kind assistance.

This is my second 1985 K100rs, preceeded by a 1981 K100rs, a 1959 Harley Davidson Sportster (on a hardtail frame), a 1978 R100/7, a 1969 Moto-Guzzi V-700 (Sport?) & a (unkown year) Yamaha 100 twin. I also currently own a 1970 Moto-Guzzi V-750 Ambassador that I need some new 750cc cylinders & pistons for.

charlie99 · 37 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:46 am

charlie99

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yay ...inge does it again !

indeed we are fortunate that inge is interested in these old bikes of ours ...and a welcome friend to all ...his recall and expertice is amazing ... fuel sender dead light 723598

blaKey · 38 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:08 am

blaKey

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"I tend to be quite (overly) "wordy" and I'm uncertain of what format would be most appropriate for it"

No format here ibjman; just photograph it, write about it and we'll read it!

Inge K. · 39 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:53 pm

Inge K.

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Inge K. wrote:Both pictures says widerstandsgeber im tank, which is resistor sensor in tank.

Both systems have a variable resistor(s), older systems have two thermistors which the fuel keeps cool, newer system a float which varies the resistance.

Have to correct this info, since the resistor part on the float level sensor is used solely for the gauge.
The warning lamp got it`s own circuit with a switch.

Should have remembered this, since it was a issue with this switch circuit on this forum around a year ago.
---------
And about the trim pot(s)....it`s a current limiter(s) for the thermistor(s) self heating....which should be set to 95 mA.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This also explains why the conductive film have the same part number before and after 04/85.
The 4 & 7 litre pcb (and its related conductive film) is NLA, and the improved pcb using only the 4L circuit...which is the the same as the newer float sensor using.
And the cond. film ending on 903 is used on the ABS models, which using the 7 litre lamp as a ABS warning.

BTW. If your -85 cluster is a 9 screw version, the fuel level pcb and the conductive film with its plastic frame can be moved over to the -88 cluster w/o mods....except drill a hole for pin #8 (7 litre) at the cluster backplate.
Then both lamps would function........but it was a lot of complains on the early system, with the 7 litre lamp start to flash allready when the tank was half full.

Now I have to go back and correct my earlier posts Rolling Eyes

.

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1 fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:25 pm

nino

2 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:32 pm

Inge K.

3 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:39 pm

nino

4 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:45 pm

Inge K.

5 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:03 pm

nino

6 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:07 pm

Inge K.

7 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:15 pm

nino

8 Re: fuel sender dead light Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:18 pm

Inge K.

9 Can you give me early part numbers? Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:19 pm

ibjman

10 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:30 am

Inge K.

11 Thank You.... Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:33 am

ibjman

12 How to replace the conductive film Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:49 am

ibjman

13 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:51 am

Inge K.

14 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:24 am

Inge K.

15 I see Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:36 am

ibjman

16 Perhaps this would be a better option? Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:45 am

ibjman

17 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:18 am

nino

18 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:52 am

Rick G

19 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:16 am

nino

20 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:19 am

Rick G

21 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:13 pm

Inge K.

22 That's great information! Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:15 pm

ibjman

23 Re: fuel sender dead light Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:25 pm

Inge K.

24 In translation to English.... Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:39 pm

ibjman

25 My part #62 11 1 459 713 (New Old Stock) Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:54 pm

ibjman

26 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:03 am

Inge K.

27 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:08 am

Inge K.

28 yes Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:17 am

ibjman

29 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:20 am

Inge K.

30 I also have.... Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:20 am

ibjman

31 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:32 am

Inge K.

32 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:56 am

Inge K.

33 You are so kind Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:03 am

ibjman

34 I can do that Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:04 am

ibjman

35 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:10 am

Inge K.

36 WOW! Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:38 am

ibjman

37 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:46 am

charlie99

38 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:08 am

blaKey

39 Re: fuel sender dead light Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:53 pm

Inge K.

40 Re: fuel sender dead light

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