just finished installing a set of 55w driving lights on the enterprise
went outside now it is dark started bike to see how they worked and after turning on driving lights i noticed that the alt light has a dull glow that is not noticeable in daylight
i have wired them up through a relay and used one of the switches in dash pad to turn driving lights off and on
i checked the battery with volt meter and these are the readings

bike not going 12.4
at idle 13.5
3000rpm 13.7
lights on low-beam
at idle 12.3
3000rpm 13.6
lights on high-beam
at idle 12.2
at 3000rpm 13.6
lights on high-beam driving lights on
at idle 12.0
at 3000rpm 13.4
after looking in the manual it reads that alternator should put out 13.7 to 14.5
so i think that its out put is a little on the low side would this be caused by worn bushes in alternator the bike has only done 60000ks new battery last oct
and never had any electrical problems what are your views

Col I got fairly much the same readings on my K1100 with 55w lights. The alternator seems to handle it ok but a 50amp unit would be a big plus.
There is an auto electrician in town that says he can rewind the standard alternator to do 55 amp so I am giving him a go now. It may pay to wait and see what goes with mine.

thanks rick
do you think i create any problems if i use the lights on short runs 1/2hr to 1hr charging at 13.4 should keep the battery charged as long as i dont ride for hours at night

Yeah I reckon that would be OK mine hasn't dropped its bundle yet and I have done a few trops to Warwick and back. 60k

I have 2 additional 50w driving lights for years and don't have any problem.
I have the original alternator and always ride during day time with high beam on + driving lights. (I may not have to anymore since I installed the LED parking light. We'll see that in a month as it was snowing this week)

Have you noticed that when you brake the alt light glows too? This is a well known problem and this due to a positive leakage on the ground.

Would it be the same with your driving lights?

CF

with the voltages that you are seeing, seems about .6 volts low .. probably after you run the bike for longer periods you would see the voltage creep up a bit more .

can you probe the output of the altenator ? right at the connector (positive ) and the body of the altenator and measure again this would tell you if you have losses somewhere in the cabling . if so it might be an idea to look at your negative and positive leads from the battery . especially the negative , make it bigger conductor size .

in a lot of bosch type altenators (well in cars anyhow ) there is normally 2 distinct regulators , as explained to me by an auto electrician ...he called them a "country" regulator and a "city" regulator ...the city regulator was always about ,6 volts higher than the other type (something to do with the amount of short runs and regular start processes )

i believe that by modifiing the regulator (adding a diode in the regulator circuit ) a higher voltage can be obtained ....its got nothing to do with rewiring rewinding

on the net you can find digital lcd voltmeters really cheep ...in fact we have one at work ....connected up to a solar panel and a fan (just to monitor it ) its been out in the weather for about a year now and still going strong like 10 bucks or something at your door .

just a note ...get someone you know with an expensive digital meter and compare the readings of your meter and his (dont forget to replace the battery periodically )....some of the cheeper type meters are renouned for inacuracy especially as the internal battery goes down . ask me how i know !!!!


as for the glow on the battery indicator ...forget it ...all the k s ive seen (lots now ) do it .


just some thoughts

I also have been running two 55w lights for some time now. Like CF I run with them on diring the day. At first there was a light glow from charge light . I then cleaned alternator connection leads and also put in one of These replacement regulators s my brushes were on the poor looking side. At anything above 1200 revs i get a steady 14 volts.

The light usually glows when heated grips are used. I read somewhere that it was something to do with where the power connection was taken from and doesn't pose a problem...... but it would be nice if it didn't glow.
Paul.

sidecar paul wrote:...... but it would be nice if it didn't glow.Paul.

If it annoys you...you can mount a diode...check this document.

I've just found the reference; Motobins catalogue - hints and tips.

"...is due to the sum of the voltage drops across the large number of connections between the battery and the warning lamp. Either run another wire directly from the battery to the warning lamp or more simply replace the 3W bulb with a 5W bulb."

Or as Inge suggests, fit a diode.
Paul.

sidecar paul wrote:more simply replace the 3W bulb with a 5W bulb."

When changing from the standard bulb.....check the charging afterwards.......
since the charging circuit is designed to work with the standard wattage/resistance.

thanks for every ones input much appreciated
on thursday will check actual output at alternator
and then go down town and have a chat to autoelecy about some new brushes or regulator i connected driving lights to the blue round connector in relay box it has 3 connections
earth
power full time
power with key on lights connected here
diode will only come after i know full charge is being produced at alternator and i am not using more power than i am making
never noticed light glow with brakes being activated but will take more notice now
i hear chewy gum works well for hiding red lights on dash too but gee i hate it when you have to leave your bike in the bushes on the side of the road and hitch home to get trailer because you took the easy way out and didnt fix problem first time

col wrote:i connected driving lights to the blue round connector in relay box it has 3 connections
earth
power full time
power with key on lights connected here

Did you connect relay signal to this connector....or relay power supply...or both?

I`ve got 2 x 55W aux lights on mine the last 25 years without any problems regarding charging.

Don`t find any unused 3 pole connector in the genuine wiring diagram for the LT, do you remember the colour code on the wire you did connect to?

The blue connectors are normally for the ABS. Have you got an original loom?

ReneZ wrote:The blue connectors are normally for the ABS.

That was also one of my first thoughts, but didn`t find any connectors matching the description in the ABS wiring either.
(could also be that the diagram doesn`t display all connectors).

i stuffed up its is a blue rectangle female socket with four holes with only 3 in use
brown in which i connected to earth on relay
2 x green and black in which i connected to power relays has power with key on
1x red and 1 x red yellow left empty has power all the time
i put a relay on low beam circuit as well hoping to run a bigger globe but not till alt light sorted
loom looks original

If you use the green/black as power supply you`re getting a voltage drop in the same circuit which the charge warning lamp also is "reading" the voltage.

1. The best source for power feed to the relays is directly to the battery, and then minimal voltage drop in the feeding circuit (and even better lights).
You got two other alternatives:
2. the power feed side of the starter relay.
3. The red wire in the connector that you did use.
(all alternatives in order of priority).

By changing the relay power supply, your charge warning lamp glowing would be history.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another thought: a green/black wire indicates that it`s connected to fuse 1, which should be 7,5 A.
By having 2 x 55W+ through this fuse it should have blown, I suspect it`s another rating mounted.

thanks inge
ill try connecting to red wire and see what happens
will need to sit down and have a good look at fuse box and make sure each spot has right fuse never had do anything to it apart from checking for corrosion when first got bike

yep taking a relay power supply feed from the input to the starter relay ...then fused ..is the best option ..all the rest is signal wiring and wouldnt affect almost anything col

already have a 20 amp fuse on way to relay i am just going out to shed and try in red socket and see what happens back shortly

moved relay supply feed to red wire (power always on) started bike up turned on driving lights no glowing alternator light very happy but will still check alternator out properly this break
the moral to this story if you put on driving lights connect directly to battery
thanks again to every that responded thats what makes this forum great

update
pulled out old regulator to check brushes measured 4.8mm a little below wear limit
went up to see auto elec and got another complete regulator put in tested alt all good
charging now
idle 12.5 @3000 14.0
low beam
idle 12.8 @3000 13.9
high beam
idle 12.4 @3000 13.9
high beam and driving lights
idle 12.1 @ 3000 12.9
so all should be good

thats a bit better col ......good work .....

was the regulator pricy ?

40 bucks and he installed and tested not bosch but made in germany and he did while i waited

thats gotta be a win col ......cheers mate !!!!

went for a run to Sydney and back on Saturday left before sun came up got home 10pm new driving lights worked great
just had to adjust them on the run i have them set up so they point to the edges of the road so if any skippys are about i will see them

sweet !!!!!

hello all,



do any of you know what size diode to put in? I asked around at work here and our inhouse electrical bloke recons a 10AMP diode should do the trick?



any of you fitted the diode and the what results did you need.

the maximum current that a 5 watt bulb can draw is a little over .5 amps at about 13.6 volts .....even a 10 watt bulb will only draw about .9 amps

ergo: it would be quite acceptable to use a 1 amp type i guess ...cheep as chips

thanks - I pulled off the plug on the alternator and it was a bit corroded , decided to pull out the brushes and see, they are worn- a friend here at work says he has a brand new brush/ regulator at home says he will give it to me tomorrow.

I have not fitted the diode, but managed to get a 10 amp one. can the actual problem be a faulty rectifyer in the alt itself? or will I be chasing echos on that one?

will try the brushes and plug clean up first before I fit the diode.

may I ask the - alternator drive bobbins? when worn do they typicaly quieten up when the bike is at operating temperature?

also did the starter up as well last night- stripped it and gave a it a good clean and grease up, ran it in my work vice- seems much better.

thanks guys - i am enjoying this bike, having ridden it around a bit and to work a few times- we are in the start of winter here and I am actually hot behind the fairing- I was in germany a few weeks ago and the bike shops were having sales on winter riding gear- I bought some and I must be honest with this bike I think It may be a waste.

the altenator draw a little voltage through the globe whenever it is running ...just in daylight you dont see it ...

its the field winding needing excitation i guess and it glows slightly from the slight voltage difference .

the diode more or less equalises the voltage drop .. i think the direction of the diode should be towards the altenator ......the bar on the diode is the direction of current flow ...10 amps is way over rated but will still work

we call the drive bobins ...monkey nuts ....(just a heads up ) and many have noticed that replacing them is a good thing to do

the brushes have a critical length for which is a guide for replacement ...lots of threads in here about that ..yes a good cleanup of the connector of the altenator output is a recomended thing ..

hope it all goes well !!

update: My friend brought me the brush set- much better than my old ones.

I fitted them , cleaned up the terminal and also fitted the 10 amp diode with the diode "facing" the alternator.

I have no more glowing light! so it works. My charge rate seems good at approx between 12.4v to 13.1 v at various loads and engine speeds. my frined at work recons that the diode will take approx 0.5 v out of the system.

so I am happy.

starter is much much better, seems also much quieter when starting the bike does not sound like it is "grinding.



thanks all

Sorry that I may destroy joy rapture, but it seems that you need to check your connections regarding the charging system one more time.

12,4 - 13,1 Volts is a bit on the low side, it should be 13,8 -14,2 with moderate load and rpm.

Do you got a good and healthy battery, as this also affects the charging.

Before you did install the diode, did you have any extra equipment connected to the same circuit as the charge warning lamp, which could cause a slight voltage drop in that circuit?

If not, the diode will just mask that you got a charging problem.

yes i agree with you inge .. it should be higher ...

after reading several reports recently of similar voltage readings ( after 20 + years of operation ) ,,,the fix is replacement of the regulator

i suspect that over time the regulators loose volts from the design ...i suspect that the components internally become lossy (bias - feedback resistor goes high value or field current driver junction is current limiting ?)

i have in mind a replacement of my regulator in the next few months and will use the oportunity to open the old one up for investigation .

my multimeter is a bit dodgy- have tried my friends one and the charge rate is much better at around 13.5V - now which one to believe? i go for his one as my one is a bit knackerd- early xmas present time methinks!

any special method to test at the alternator istelf?



riding the bike- so far no problems at all?

charlie99 wrote:yes i agree with you inge .. it should be higher ...

after reading several reports recently of similar voltage readings ( after 20 + years of operation ) ,,,the fix is replacement of the regulator

Just dont go and drop your new regulator. some of them cant have the brushes replaced so easily....

just connect up both meters to the battery and notice the differences

my $200 work multi meter reads slightly low ....but internaly there are adjustments for all those settings so modification can be acheived ...possibly caused by a brain fart by me and well used and lossy leads ,,.

lucky we have a reference to a "certified meter " seems the cheepy i have (with no adjustments) reads slightly high (about .2-.4 volts ) but thats cool ,,just write the difference on the meter so you dont forget .



there is a magic theoretical voltage reference that all batteries love ( my assumption after seeing the results is more than just theoretical results .. seems that many still operate well for a long time with what apears to be ..low readings )...

technically the best way to test would be to put a constant ...unchanging load on the system, and maintain constant revs at about your most consistant rev range , the ideal would be at about 70% load ( about 20 something amps ) maybe that would mean ..low beam (50 watt headlight ) and about 3 or 4000 revs ...i would expect to see at those loads and revs 13.5 or so volts

the actual running loads could well be (sans lighting ) 7.5 - 15 amps given that we run constant fuel pump and other things like injectors, efi ,electronic ignition computers, instruments and indicators etc ... + battery charging on top of that .

(must measure it to be precise one day )



hope that helps a little

Albyalbatross1 wrote:

charlie99 wrote:yes i agree with you inge .. it should be higher ...

after reading several reports recently of similar voltage readings ( after 20 + years of operation ) ,,,the fix is replacement of the regulator

Just dont go and drop your new regulator. some of them cant have the brushes replaced so easily....

um drill out the rivetts and replace with bolts and nylock nuts alby ?

cheer up ol mate it ....could happen to any of us ...especially whilst giggle snorting you way through the forum ....huh ?

^5s bloke

I have exactly the same problem with a friends K75C. The charge is 12.5 and gradualy creeps up to 13.4 over about 3-4 minutes.
The revs have to come up to about 2500 before charging starts and the light always glows a bit.
It needed new brushes so I put them in but will have to go with a new regulator. Charlie what is the part No of the higher volts one you mentioned.
Now to find a brick wall with soft bricks.

hi rick ...seems alby has found at least one ....'i have found one on ebay that i think i want ...quoted as 14.5 volts ....(but assuming lower )

check here for what i found

if you look down you find the cross reference to the regulators ....

mine currently fitted is 1197 311 001 ...to which this is suposed to be a direct replacement

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Voltage-Regulator-Bosch-Alternators-12V-/360237359264?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53dfd1e0a0

just trying to find a cheaper seller

rick that kinda sound close to what i would expect .....to be precise ..on the increasing voltage that you see ...i would be thinking the recarge current to the battery would be drawing the voltage low ...till the battery drops off the recharge current replacement .

i would be looking at 13.5 or so ....after about 5 minutes of running ...above 1.5k revs
but like many we have seen recently in this thread ...it wouldnt hurt to replace huh ?

and doesnt cost an arm or a leg to keep the battery in a good state ...with possibly better life !!!

Yeah Charlie..Got drilled out already. that is the same regulator i got from e/bay. I have had one in bike for over a year now and no worries..It was most definately the fix needed. (Along with a good clean out) i also believe that over time solid state components start to fail. I am replacing the regulator in Lisas'bike with one. the old brushes were just under spec(ill replace brushes and test it) and a new component will just be that lil bit extra goodness for the upgrade electrics.

EME has one listed at $39 http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Bosch-Alternators-and-our-Exclusive-EnDuraLast-Charging-Kit-s/1.htm
Their stuff is fairly good.

EME now has adjustable voltage regulators for the 32 A alternators. I
will be putting in an order with them so if any one in the South East
Queensland wants anything there give me a yell by friday night 27th

[/quote]

um drill out the rivetts and replace with bolts and nylock nuts alby ?

cheer up ol mate it ....could happen to any of us ...especially whilst giggle snorting you way through the forum ....huh ?

^5s bloke[/quote]

yes it can happen to any of us.I paid for it though--..I Just paid AUD $16.50 for one, thats (1) pair of brushes!!!!! half a new regulator!!!!!

true mate ...but you did minimize the damage to the pocket after the event ...and that deserves a pat on the back regardless