Hello to everyone!

I arrived yesterday from French Alps, where i was riding the bike during 10 days! It was fantastic!

However, it was the first time that my bike warm up and i have necessity to replace water level.

This never have happen before. In the first day i travel 900kms across Spain and i have to replace water in the first time after 500kms. The weather was hot. In that day i have to put about 500ml of water.

In other days, i don´t have to replace the water level. But when i return home, i start travelling in Madrid and after 300 kms i have to replace the water level again. The weather was very hot again.

The temperature in the gauge never reached the red, but for two or three times the water leaves the reservoir.

I don´t think this was normal and i´m worried with my engine health.

What do you think i should do?

Best regards,

Good Curves

abbocath ...this raises more questions ....

how high was the temperature gage ?

did you notice if the water resevoir had changed level ?

have you noticed if there was water driping from the front bottom of the motor . just behind the water/oil pump whilst running /hot ?

whilst the motor is running ...have you noticed the radiator fan comming on ?

is the filler cap sealing correctly ?

my guess is that the seal in the water pump has deteriorated and is leaking fluid through this seal and out the vent at the bottom of the oil/water pump ....or possibly the thermostat is not working correctly and is adding additional presure to the system from an over heat type situation or a combination of both ....

Is the radiator overflow tank possibly leaking? Or is the hose between the overflow tank and radiator cap secure and water-tight? It's possible that the leak is at this location instead of the water pump seal.

Hello,

For start, i need to say that i have changed the water in the system before the trip to he Alps, and i have substitute the clamps in the tubes.

So, i think the clamps are fine and i didn´t notice water coming out from there, but that is possible because i can´t see that when i´m running the bike.

The temperature gage was in the maximum near the yellow arrow (see picture please), and never passes from there. That happen in the first time and it never reaches there again.



In the return to home from Madrid, the maximum that the temperature gauge indicates was (see green arrow in the picture please).




The water in the resevoir changed level. When i start running and if the water is right (between the min ant the max level before turn on the bike) passes a few kms (+-30kms) it rises on the reservatoir, and once it overflowed. When i stop the bike the water come to the minimum level.

Another interesting thing, is that if i´m running about 130 kms/h (this was the speed i ride in practily all trip) the temperature rises to the middle of the gauge. But if i reduce for a little while the speed for 100kms/h (about 1 min) the temperature stays above the middle and its dificult to rises again (it rises if i have a big ascension in the road).

Charlie99, to answer your question, yes the radiator fan have comming on twice while the motor is running on on the road.



So, shoul i still running the bike to understand and to see if it happens again or if i lossing water when the motor is hot?

Truly, i don´t know what to do, and here in Portugal we don´t have many bikes like these ones running, and the mechanicals don´t know very well what to do with this bikes.

They all say to buy a new one, but this is my bike and i loved it!

Good curves

i agree abbocath these bikes are awesome .....and i wouldn't change mine for many reasons .

i think you are experiencing a failed thermostat ..the temperatures that you are experiencing are high ....even in summer here (40 c) i dont get my temperature up to that level ...usually to the second line up from the blue bar .

it sounds like the fluid resevour and filler cap is working correctly ...for the temperatures you are experiencing

the thermostat is located here

Thank you Charlie99!

I also think in a failed thermostat and i´m thinking change it to see what happens.

Should i look for anything more in the bike?

Some people told me that could be the joins the motor burned (i don´t know if it says like this in english)? Do you think it could be?

Good Curves

HI there, your temp problems are like mine before I changed the radiator cap gaskets. I made both gaskets. The engine runs at indicated temperatures like yours, but without loosing fluid. I discovered that when the gaskets are fine there is no noticeable flow from the radiator to the reservoir even when temperature raises to the fan´s working zone, with the bike at idle and an ambient temperature around 37ºC.
If you detect flow from the radiator to the reservoir at working temperatures, then I´ll think the gaskets are worn or distorted so the system can´t keep pressure loosing mass and increasing temperature.
Be carefull with those gaskets, the rubber is very soft and may be esasily distorted during instalation.
Hope this helps
Best regards
JAP

Thank you, Japuentes,

I just don´t understand what "cap gaskets" you refer.

Do you refer to this one? (the one red in the picture)





This one i have substitute the clamp because it was not ok. But i don´t have use any kind of seal (some kind of glue) inside the tube? It was necessary?

Regards,

Good Curves

abbocath wrote:Thank you, Japuentes,

I just don´t understand what "cap gaskets" you refer.

Do you refer to this one? (the one red in the picture)





This one i have substitute the clamp because it was not ok. But i don´t have use any kind of seal (some kind of glue) inside the tube? It was necessary?

Regards,

Good Curves

Hi, I'm referring to parts 25 & 26, these are the radiator cap´s gaskets. The cap also has an internal valve wich allows refrigerant to pass to the recovery reservoir only when pressure exceeds the maximum allowable working one, around 14.5 to 16.7 psi these are some 120ºC. Once the engine cools the same valve allows the refrigerant return due to the resulting vacuum. You can test the valve, if it opens below or over the indicated pressure the cap has to be changed.
No glue is necessary for the hoses, only the clamp.
Best regards
JAP

Hi,

Now i understand what are the radiator cap´s gaskets!

Thank you.

How can i test the valve? Sorry for be boring with so many questions!

Best regards and Good Curves

Hi, I´ve never made a formal test, simply try to blow and suck by the cap´s neck to ckeck the valve´s sealing and free flow. But for a formal test, you´ll need some one how lend you a testing device, pressure source, testing dials etc. maybe a radiator specialist could make the test, trying by your self is another option but can be expensive and the new cap is only 18USD including the gaskets. I would change the gaskets, assemble the bike and make a runing test at idle, and then on the road, if it works thats all.
Best regards
JAP

Ok, that´s what i will tried to do.

Thank you for the help.

Good Curves

just a point worth asking abbocath ....you are useing glycal (green looking fluid ) in the system arent you ?

the glycal raises the boiling temperature of the water so it no longer boils at 100 c but at some higher temperature .

if the level of glycal falls too low this will have a similar effect and maybe contributing to the effects of the loss of fluid .

in any case i think it is recommended to drain and replace the fluid yearly ....

have you tried running the bike with the thermostat removed ? ...

Hi Charlie99,

Yes i´m using the green fluid. Should i use another one?

I use changed the fluid was in 2007!! But now i know that is not good for the health of bikes.

Is this one i use. But during the journey i have to buy and i just have found the blue ones so i have mixed it. Can this be the problem?



I don´t have tried running the bike without thermostat. If i do that the motor will not warm hot to high?

Regards and thanks!

Good Curves

it should stay cold for quite some time ....then should come up in temperature .....im interested to see if the high temperatures is the thermostat problem and not something else ......it shouldnt be hard to test this ..

might be best to compress the bypass tube ( the tube that runs behind the radiator ) as the themostat blocks water from the radiator and passes water through the bypass untill it gets hot enough to require radiator cooling .
i wouldnt be surprised that it stayed cool for a long time ....but definatly shouldnt run hot .....unless idling for a long time ....might be good to go for a short ride ...maybe some path that you regularly travel to see the differences ????

anybody else with thoughts of this as a test ?

Hi there, regarding the cooling mixture, as long as it is in good condition, it has little impact on the system´s cooling eficiency. It is used as an antifreezing and corrosion protector, the mixture rises the boiling temperature from 100ºC to 104ºC at atmospheric pressure but also decreases the heat transfer capability, is necessary for engines working at low temperatures and for protecting the system from corrosion, also helps lubricating the pump so it a must for all the engines.
The main point to avoid boiling is to keep the pressure, the 1. thru 1.15 psi range at 120ºC is just below the boiling point, that is the maximum working condition, if you loose pressure the boiling point comes down and the result is a boil over causing a surge to the reservoir an a overheating if not stoped.
The thermostat can cause the overheating if it does not opens at the specified temperature, but I dont think thats the case as abbocath could ride very long distances, thats what makes me believe the problem is pressure loss. If the cooling mixture is more than two years old is a good idea to change it and drain and flush the system, but I would change and test the gaskets first. Then go for the thermostat if consider necessary.
Best regards
JAP

Um this is going to sound dumb, but when the fluid is bubbling back into the reservior, take the flexible cap off the reservior and put your finger in it. I was assuming that it was boiling hot, but no, was cool
to the touch, so the temperature was not a problem. Also believe this meant that the thermostat was working, but in my case the temperature sensor had failed.
Cheers RT

hmm thats kinda interesting rt ..

i would assume that the feed from the radiator would have been " at system temperature " ...unless your thermostat was faulty and directing the flow through the bypass tube instead of the main radiator ....which is what it should do till sufficient heat built up to activate the thermostat and close the back (bypass) port ..

until that happens i would imagine that the radiator fluid in fact would still be cool to the touch as it is being bypassed .

how soon after startup was this test rt ?

reason for asking this is.... not until after about 10 or so minutes of riding, my radiator is hot to the touch on the right hand side near the outlet / filler cap , but the guage indicates that it is hot about 1 or 2 minutes after start up .....

dont forget that the temp guage measures the temperature of the fluid passing through the pump ....not the radiator temperature... so mine says its up to temperature ....before the radiator actually heats up .

thats one of the reasons why i left the lower fairings off my bike untill i was sure that everything was working correctly .

abbocath wrote:Hi Charlie99,

Yes i´m using the green fluid. Should i use another one?

I use changed the fluid was in 2007!! But now i know that is not good for the health of bikes.

Is this one i use. But during the journey i have to buy and i just have found the blue ones so i have mixed it. Can this be the problem?



I don´t have tried running the bike without thermostat. If i do that the motor will not warm hot to high?

Regards and thanks!

Good Curves

The Blue coolant should not be mixed with the older type that is Green. They don't mix well and this will cause very poor heat transfer from engine to coolant and coolant to radiator. The mixture will cause foamong and bubbles will cause hotspots.

I am going to change to the newer blue coolant beause it is far more friendly to the enviroment and is not pioisoness to children or wildlife.

You need to flush the green and blue mix with clean water and refill with either Green or Blue but not a mixture.

As with all the coolants it should be changed every 2 years to retain good heat transfer properties.

Hi The recommended coolant for our engine metal mix is the BMW coolant which one can also get from a BMW car dealer, It is not expensive and is another thing where I believe it is worth using the recommended fluid unless the alternative has improved properties.

The cap gaskets need to be in perfect condition because part of their jos is to control pressure when hot but strangely the other part of their job is to keep a vacuum when the bike is cooling down so that water that has expanded is drawn back into the engine and rad from the expansion chamber (number 20 in the parts drawing above). Otherwise if that doesn't happen I suspect any bubbles that collect could cause an airlock and inhibit flow.
Regards,
K-BIKE

Hi Charlie, I had been for a 20 k run locally without the side covers on and could see the fluid bubbling back into the reservoir. As I was in the process of trying to get the fan working I assumed it had boiled.
When it did boil previously, the soft reservoir cap blew off with gusto
so I assumed that was going to happen again. I took that cap off and there was no pressure build up and the coolant was cool. I have fixed the fan since but can't get a good run in til the back brake bits turn up. I just was perplexed. Also since then I have pulled the radiator off my spares bike, and it is in great condition, think I should have done a complete swap at the time.
Sorry abbocath, don't mean to break in, hope you get it fixed mate
RT

i agree k-bike

bubbles ? rt sounds like there was some air in there somewhere ...um the resevoir to tank fill tube should be without air i guess ...so that the vacume process of in and out to the resoviour works proper . i have always found that i have been able to get an explosion of fluid out of radiators when there is air inside them and not full fluid fill ... as k-bike suggests



meanwhile i have been riding around in (near subzero temperatures here ....lol) well under 10 c and have noticed that the radiator does stay coolish for a longer time ...which is way different than normal for us.

hoping you getting on top of it abbocath

In a closed system, where there would have been a bit of air left in the radiator etc, it would accumulate just below the filler cap. Once the pressure rises in the system the air will be pushed out through the pressure relief valve in the cap and will be pushed, potentially with some water, to the reservoir. This might be visible as some air bubbles and could lead someone to think it is boiling. Like k-bike and charlie above, nothing to worry about.
Further the thermostat is to open around 85 C, which is considerable below boiling. Initially the radiator is bypassed (the hose from the temperature sensor stubb to the back of the thermostat housing) until the cooling fluid reaches the set temp of the thermostat. This will than slowly open, allowing a part bypass and part flow over the radiator. If the temperature rises further the thermostat will fully open and the little disc at the end of the thermostat will close of the bypass hose, now having all the flow over the radiator. Off course the radiator can only cool when there is air flowing through it, which at low(er) speeds is accomplished with the (less than effective!) fan, that should come on around 100 C. If that still doesn't cool enough and the temperature rises further the temperature light will come on around 110 C. You need to be aware that then you can keep the bike running, but once you've stopped her you can't start her again until the temperature has dropped, which is a result of another protection device on these bikes.
Hope that helps a bit.

some thing you can do abbocath ...is take out the thermostat ....and hang it in a pot of water with a bit of wire ......heat the water (on a stove ) untill it aproaches boiling point .....you should see the thermostat operate by lengthening ......

just a thought

Here i am almost passed 3 months...

And i haven´t my problem solved... so my bike is stopped!

I have changed the thermostat and the temperature still´s high.

My bike is now in the mechanic. He takes off the radiator and tested it, and tell me that i have tree "channels" of radiator obstructed. He can´t solved it and tell me that the solution is istall a new radiator!

I have seen the prices and you know how much costs it...

I don´t know, and he doesn´t know too if the problem is relly from the radiator...

I don´t know what to do...shoul i buy an used one on the ebay or on motorworks/motobins?

Do you recommend something more? Do you think i should see something more on the bike?

Best regards,

Good Curves

it might be worth looking on "ebay" abbocath

sorry to hear of the radiator blockage

Have you checked that the air can pass freely through the radiator. Hold it up to the light and see how clogged the core is. It happens very regularly after all it is exposed to everything going and is very difficult to clean. I bought a K1100 LT a while ago and the fork seals were leaking. The oil had gone into the radiator fins and then dirt had collected in the oil and almost blocked it.

If you can get a radiator from a pre 85 and it will probably be a 3 row core, they are worth having.

Hey hey!

Here i am again and past a lot of time mas finally i have good news!

The bike is OK!

I haven´t said nothing sonner because i was testing it!

I received my bike in beggining of February and i´m testing it but now is all OK!

I have changed the radiator that was in very bad condition! I have done one new in a store that is speciality on radiators. I have changed the thermostat to, the cover of radiator and all the gaskets!

I have already done some kms, about 800 kms and it looks fine. The water in reservoir is on level and the temperature is above middle.

I hope it stills that way!

Now is time for running!

Good Curves

Good result Abbocath. Worth waiting for!

88KE

first of many kms hope they are trouble free