BMW K bikes (Bricks)


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vividcolt

vividcolt
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I havent been able to start my bike. The fuel pump works fine. the spark plugs spark. The z tube/pipe/hose is crack free. The fuel injectors weren’t spraying a few weeks ago, at that time the engine would turn over on start fluid but then die out. 

I send my injectors to be cleaned and when they got back, the bike would start up on choke but it would die out after a while when i released the choke. Now the bike will only turn over for a little with starter fluid again. seems to live longest as i play with the throttle and keep the choke on but it needs that starter fluid. 

I think i tried starting it too many times as it was a lot better when i had first reinstalled the injectors. Now when I try starting it, it cranks and sounds bubbly but wont turn over by itself.

Maybe the engine is a little dirty? or
maybe the gas is? Gas pumps out a really dark color, so i know the fuel is dirty. even though the gas tank was emptied and cleaned, and the gas is new, maybe the old gas from over the winter that was sitting in the fuel lines mixed in… 

Hoping its not a electrical or sensor issue. 
thoughts?

reading this over i wanna say the fuel is bad.

    

Rick G

Rick G
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Get the old gas out of the injectors. Once the fuel is in the injector body it can only go through the engine.
Have you replaced the fuel filter.


__________________________________________________
"Man sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."   Dalai Lama


Bikes 1999 K1100 LT with a Big Block 1200
    

vividcolt

vividcolt
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the guy i bought the bike from said he had replaced the fuel pump and filter. tho the components look old and crummy. Im sure it couldn’t hurt to replace the hole system there. i just wouldn’t expect dirty fuel to cause an issue with starting - poor performance absolutely but starting shouldn’t be an issue should it?

    

Laitch

Laitch
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vividcolt wrote:i just wouldn’t expect dirty fuel to cause an issue with starting - poor performance absolutely but starting shouldn’t be an issue should it?
You aren't the first to have unmet expectations here.  Smile  Dirty fuel isn't as volatile as clean fuel, and dirty fuel clogs injectors preventing them from providing sufficient fuel for reliable ignition, even if it is clean fuel.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

vividcolt

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I agree, debris may clog these injectors, and I just got them cleaned! probably not to late to take them out clean em off and clean the fuel line. The fuel itself definitely should be as clean as possible and it may be my issue here. I plan on running a test later this week.

    

duck

duck
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Pull the fuel filter out and try to blow through it.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

Suzi Q

Suzi Q
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Agree with everyone else that is sounds like fuel starvation.
You should be able to see a good flow of returning fuel into the tank when the bike is running. The return pipe outlet is just to the front of the filler cap opening.
Does the bike run if you keep pressing the starter button - that adds fuel by opening the injectors longer. It helps the engine to run if fuel supply is weak.
Commonest causes are a split hose inside the tank, or a blocked filter. You can bypass the filter temporarily to check this.

Edit: I should add that keeping the starter button pressed in doesn't harm anything - the ignition control module cuts the ground wire to the starter relay coil when revs are above (I think) 850rpm i.e. when the engire fires up.



Last edited by Suzi Q on Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:04 am; edited 1 time in total


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jbt

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Suzi Q wrote:
Commonest causes are a split hose inside the tank,
Hose failure is very common and very difficult to see under the gas level. Replace them, but use only hoses designed to be into gas, they're specific, with an inside and outside layer fuel resistant.


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Let us enjoy the transient delight
That fills our fairest day.
    

Suzi Q

Suzi Q
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Valid point. I’ve recently fallen foul of using some so-called ‘In-Tank’ hose sold on a well-known auction site, called EBay, ahem. It lasted a couple of years and then the outer layer gave up and ruptured. The only reliable stuff (per google) seems to be made by Gates, and it is encouragingly expensive. I have found that sometimes the OE stuff regains its pliability if immersed in fuel again. I think the answer is to just keep an eye on it, it’s not a difficult job.
Re. Blowing through the filter to see if it’s blocked. That works, but there’s a big difference between a new, dry filter (easy blow) and one that’s wet (aneurism).


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Sometimes I'm not really Suzi Quatro.
    

92KK 84WW Olaf

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I have come to the conclusion best solution is replace everything in the tank and also the external fuel lines. I am about to do in my latest K, I just keep the old ones as spares or to get someone out of trouble. 

External fuel lines marked NBR/CR 8/13mm can be got from Honda dealers, they use the same ones. In tank hoses are marked NBR/NBR for fuel resistant inside and out...by are not UV resistant so don't be tempted to use them outside the tank!.


__________________________________________________
1992 K100LT 0193214 Bertha Blue 101,000 miles
1984 K100RT 0022575 Brutus Baja Red 578 bought 36,000 now 89,150 miles
1997 K1100LT 0188024 Wotan Mystic Red 689 58,645 now 106,950 miles Deceased.
1983 K100RS 0011157 Fricka 606 Alaska Blue 29,495 miles Damn K Pox Its a Bat outta Hell Now 58,200 miles. 
1996 K1100LT 0233004 Lohengrin Mystic Red 38,000 miles currently 51,800 miles.
1983 K100RS 0004449 Odette R100 colours 58,000 miles. Sprint fairing now 63,390 miles

Past:
1968 Yamaha 80 YG1
1971 Yamaha 125 YAS-1
1968 Honda 125 SS
1970 Honda CD 175
1973 Honda CB500-4
Honda CX 500
    

duck

duck
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92KK 84WW Olaf wrote:I have come to the conclusion best solution is replace everything in the tank and also the external fuel lines. I am about to do in my latest K, I just keep the old ones as spares or to get someone out of trouble. 

External fuel lines marked NBR/CR 8/13mm can be got from Honda dealers, they use the same ones. In tank hoses are marked NBR/NBR for fuel resistant inside and out...by are not UV resistant so don't be tempted to use them outside the tank!.

Is the US it's much easier (and less expensive) to find 5/16" fuel line. (7.95mm)  That's what I use for all of my Ks. Be sure it's made for FI systems. It wiil be printed on the line if it is.

And fuel immersible for interior lines.


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

vividcolt

vividcolt
active member
active member
jbt wrote:
Suzi Q wrote:
Commonest causes are a split hose inside the tank,  
Hose failure is very common and very difficult to see under the gas level. Replace them, but use only  hoses designed to be into gas, they're specific, with an inside and outside layer fuel resistant.
Yup that was something I saw the other day, I went ahead and replaced it with a 3/8" SAE 30R7 hose.

    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
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vividcolt wrote:Yup that was something I saw the other day, I went ahead and replaced it with a 3/8" SAE 30R7 hose.
You have chosen an unsuitable hose for that application. It will fail you. Attached is an extract from Continental Rubber about your R7 hose. It is not submersible in gasoline and it is not made for fuel injected engines. What you need is J30R10 hose. A BMW dealer like MaxBMW sells it at a comparatively reasonable price.

Bike kind of started and almost stayed on Scree258


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

duck

duck
Life time member
Life time member
5/16" is a better size. (What I use)

BMW hose is 8mm.

5/16" = 7.95mm
3/8" = 9.53mm


__________________________________________________
Current stable:
86 Custom K100 (standard fairing, K75 Belly pan, Ceramic chromed engine covers, paralever)
K75 Frankenbrick (Paralever, K11 front end, hybrid ABS, K1100RS fairing, radial tires)
86 K75C Turbo w/ paralever
94 K1100RS
93 K1100LT
91 K1
93 K75S (K11 front end)
91 K75S (K1 front end)
14 Yamaha WR250R
98 Taxi Cab K1200RS
14 K1600GT
http://www.ClassicKBikes.com
    

Cablebeacher

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Silver member
Silver member
Laitch wrote:
vividcolt wrote:Yup that was something I saw the other day, I went ahead and replaced it with a 3/8" SAE 30R7 hose.
You have chosen an unsuitable hose for that application. It will fail you. Attached is an extract from Continental Rubber about your R7 hose. It is not submersible in gasoline and it is not made for fuel injected engines. What you need is J30R10 hose. A BMW dealer like MaxBMW sells it at a comparatively reasonable price.

Bike kind of started and almost stayed on Scree258Hi guys
just to add a little... Had a similar issue the other week. When you check the fuel pump out of tank make sure the bottom is immersed in fuel and ACTUALLY pumps. I did a DRY check and it made noises in both pos and neg mode. ie wires exchange. BUT when I put it back in the tank it made the NOISE but did not pump...

#2 worked OK BUT had a split in the hose. Couldn't see it until I accidently moved the hose and had a gush noise. An underwater fuel line split is invisible... The PUSH the start button (as above) did keep the engine fired up.

Fuel in-tank hoses... My local (remote) auto shop said ALL fuel hoses are the same... Read the attachment... Gave him a copy and he and the others three days later all went "Sorry. Our mistake"... In Tank HAS to have 

Regards
Mal
Cant seem to add the file so sent as a cut n paste.
Correct Fuel Hose Installation
Fuel hoses are not universal. Outside of the dimensional requirements, fuel hoses have requirements for permeation, pressure and the type of fuel they can carry. This can get even more confusing when you start looking at the lettering on the side of the hose.
Bike kind of started and almost stayed on Clip_image002
By Andrew Markel
Feb 25, 2016

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Understanding the Differences Between Fuel Hoses
Fuel hoses are not universal. Outside of the dimensional requirements, fuel hoses have requirements for permeation, pressure and the type of fuel they can carry. This can get even more confusing when you start looking at the lettering on the side of the hose.
Related Articles

Bike kind of started and almost stayed on Clip_image005SAE J30R Standards
The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) is an industry group that creates standards for the automotive industry. When it develops a standard, it applies to all manufacturers in hopes of reducing engineering and testing costs.
SAE has more than 16 active and inactive J30 standards for fuel and oil hoses. If you look at the side of a fuel, oil or emissions hose you will see the letters “SAE” followed by the number 30 (some will have a J first). Next in the sequence will be the letter “R” followed by a number. The number after the “R” refers to the section of the performance standard it pertains to. The criteria are typically permeation, chemical resistance, construction, temperature range and kink resistance. The higher the standards go, the more criteria that must be met.
“R” numbers in some cases do not determine the pressure rating for the hose. Hose manufacturers typically print on the hose if it is intended for use on fuel injection systems. Also, you should check with the manufacturer of the hose to see if it is compatible with fuels like E85 or biodiesel. NOTE: IF A HOSE DOESN’T HAVE A SAE J30- STANDARD ON THE SIDE, DON’T INSTALL IT IN A FUEL SYSTEM.
Bike kind of started and almost stayed on Clip_image007SAE 30R6 hoses are designed for low-pressure applications like carburetors. These can also be used as an emissions hose.
SAE 30R7 hoses are designed for fuel. These can go under the hood and are typically used for low-pressure applications.
SAE 30R9 hoses are designed for high-pressure applications like fuel injection and oil. These are designed to stand up to the environment under the hood.
SAE 30R10 includes hoses that are submerged in fuel. This type of hose is used inside the fuel tank and typically on the fuel pump module. This type of hose uses a special layer on the inside and outside to prevent the core layers from being saturated in fuel. But, don’t use it under the hood. R10 hoses can’t stand the heat.
SAE J30R12 includes low-permeation fuel feed and return hoses.
SAE J30R14T1 is the standard for ultra-low permeation properties. This type of hose is typically approved for use with leaded and unleaded gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, E85, methanol, ethanol and gasohol fuels. These are typically used for low-pressure applications.
 
Bike kind of started and almost stayed on Clip_image009

    

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