85 engine resto ?

charlie99 · 1 85 engine resto ? Tue 29 Dec 2020, 23:06

charlie99

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newly arrived ,
what i thought could have been a low kilometer 87 or 88 motor , turned out to be an 85

my ocd will have me pulling it apart for checking all sorts of things , including induction path flow smoothing yet again and sump paint removal .

ill try to find locally available valve stem seals this time , it shouldnt be too hard should it ?, at about 1/4 the price

many thanks to Tom and Waz

Dai · 2 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 30 Dec 2020, 02:02

Dai

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I actually understand the OCD bit. I've never done it with a brick engine (yet), but every Moto Guzzi that has passed through my hands has had the engine gutted for checking.

Stan · 3 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 30 Dec 2020, 02:43

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Charlie, are at it again? Do you know what the cause is? Maybe KKKKKK pox?

charlie99 · 4 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 30 Dec 2020, 04:34

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not sure of the cause Stan , at all , but must be some thing like the cheezy grin on ones face coming up the local mountain from Jackadgery without pushing too hard and arriving at the top of the hill a lot of minutes before those more modern cruiser mob even come into earshot , i think to my self even if the technology is 40 years old , it still does a brilliant job .

so looking for suggestions for valve stem seals , i guess ill contact the local engine reconditioning guys at Inverell for advice ? they should have a dimensions list available ?

it isnt too hard to do with the brick at all Dai , once the head and bell housing are off , nothing much left to imagine ??? lol maybe im just a sucker for time wasting ?

many would just ride it as it is replacing the output - clutch seal and timing cover seal .

Two Wheels Better · 5 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 30 Dec 2020, 10:32

Two Wheels Better

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charlie99 wrote:not sure of the cause Stan , at all , but must be some thing like the cheezy grin on ones face coming up the local mountain from Jackadgery without pushing too hard and arriving at the top of the hill a lot of minutes before those more modern cruiser mob even come into earshot , i think to my self even if the technology is 40 years old , it still does a brilliant job .

so looking for suggestions for valve stem seals , i guess ill contact the local engine reconditioning guys at Inverell for advice ? they should have a dimensions list available ?

it isnt too hard to do with the brick at all Dai , once the head and bell housing are off , nothing much left to imagine ??? lol maybe im just a sucker for time wasting ?

many would just ride it as it is replacing the output - clutch seal and timing cover seal .

Retirement has its perks.
Smile

Tom G · 6 85 engine resto? Fri 01 Jan 2021, 12:48

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Charlie, according to the info given to Rickmeister and I by the previous owner, that engine has covered about 11000km. Good luck with the resto. Cheers Tom

charlie99 · 7 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 08 Jan 2021, 20:29

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and so it begins , no rush at all with this one

removed the plenum , throttle bodies and mount rubbers so i could get in there a bit easier

and a little while later just armed with a toothbrush , degreaser and a rag , of corse a little elbow grease

thanks for the update Tom , marvellous stuff

Suzi Q · 8 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 08 Jan 2021, 23:47

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Hey Charlie, don't forget to tighten that alternator drive flange bolt when you put it back together Shocked

charlie99 · 9 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 09 Jan 2021, 02:35

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yes , a bit sensitive about that one chris

you wouldn't believe it , that bolt is already missing ....hahahahah

Suzi Q · 10 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 09 Jan 2021, 03:19

Suzi Q

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S'funny, I've got a spare...

charlie99 · 11 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sun 10 Jan 2021, 04:04

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so attacked the engine this morning for a near full parts pull down ,
quite astonished at the internal cleanliness of the assembly , i guess ive never seen the insides of a low kilometre engine before ...lol
more or less done by 1.00pm , so a little cleaning inside the bores seemed appropriate .
someone had been inside the engine before me , as i noticed the newer impeller in the water pump housing and the different bolt into shaft rather than nut on the shaft mounting options of the early models + blue silicon around the sump cover plate .
some interesting (concerning maybe ) issues on the small front bearing on the output shaft , as the torque on the large fixing bolts was way lower than i expected and signs of rotation of the small roller within the housing , guess id better change that regardless , and use locktite to fasten it properly on rebuild.

some pics

charlie99 · 12 Re: 85 engine resto ? Tue 12 Jan 2021, 13:08

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pulled the valves on the head in preparation for a good clean up and perhaps some port modification - again

still some more cleanup to happen , but getting there

charlie99 · 13 Re: 85 engine resto ? Tue 12 Jan 2021, 16:43

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and a little bit cleaner now , before we go inside ....

Stan · 14 Re: 85 engine resto ? Tue 12 Jan 2021, 16:54

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Where do you buy your elbow grease? Are they out of stock yet?

moriarti · 15 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 13 Jan 2021, 01:21

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Elbow Grease. Available at your local Handy,Army stores, Remember to state Left or Righthanded as per ,requirement lol!

Dai · 16 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 15 Jan 2021, 16:57

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Elbow Grease and TMTOHH(*) working together.

* too much time on his hands. Bloody retirees. Gotta wait another four years yet. Humph. 85 engine resto ? 178468

charlie99 · 17 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 16 Jan 2021, 00:38

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Dai wrote:Elbow Grease and TMTOHH(*) working together.

* too much time on his hands. Bloody retirees. Gotta wait another four years yet. Humph.

i havent officially retired yet Dai

still on job seeker , + working voluntarily at the local "mens shed" 2 days a week , and doing odd jobs for many around the place for beer money occasionally

although i do have a retirees health card ...at long last

the official retirement day is next march , just a little while to go

Two Wheels Better · 18 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 16 Jan 2021, 12:24

Two Wheels Better

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Only

75,686,400 seconds
1,261,440 minutes
21,024 hours
876 days
125 weeks and 1 day

for me to go yet. But who's counting!?

charlie99 · 19 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 16 Jan 2021, 12:33

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Not too long then mate at least its within sight

ssk75rt · 20 TMTOHH Sun 17 Jan 2021, 18:31

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Hit that pothole about 5 years ago and been self employed ever since. Busier now than i was when gainfully employed 85 engine resto ? 723598

charlie99 · 21 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sun 17 Jan 2021, 20:03

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charlie99 · 22 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sun 24 Jan 2021, 04:55

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so got a bit of time through the week to start on the engine covers , at this point just cutting back the corrosion and sandcast marks on the metalwork
with a bit more to happen before im happy with it all and can add some good shine , but getting there , slowly

charlie99 · 23 Re: 85 engine resto ? Mon 25 Jan 2021, 16:57

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first polish ...hmmm

Two Wheels Better · 24 Re: 85 engine resto ? Mon 25 Jan 2021, 19:27

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Looks awright, Chaz. What's it going underneath when you're done?

charlie99 · 25 Re: 85 engine resto ? Mon 25 Jan 2021, 21:51

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i think its going to sit on the wooden block for a little while

then going into Gerty , whilst i get the output shaft change over happening in the old girl

then , who knows ?

i think i would prefer the 85 motor to go into fred after that , as the 90 motor sure does use a lot of oil , i figure its to do with the pinned rings rather than anything else that i can think of .

charlie99 · 26 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 27 Jan 2021, 20:51

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started on some head works , at least its progress

charlie99 · 27 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 29 Jan 2021, 19:24

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some port modifications , not really changing port dimensions but making more room for flow , which tested well with Gerty showing a heap more flow and seat of the pants power increase realisation , similar here . well why not ? while its apart. grin !

this particular head casting is not too bad , compared with the one modified and on Gerty now . the area around the valve stem bushes was pretty good by comparison to some i have seen , and could well be the difference between perceived "better runners " than others , or the debate about soft cams , which were probably only installed to California and other markets ?

i think ive gained some 10 mm of breathing area , with a smoother outer radius for the most part on the inlet port and likely some improvement on the supersonic outlet flow

exhaust

inlet

more to come with some finishing - detailing now that the rough stuff has been done with the burr

charlie99 · 28 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 00:16

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just matching inlet port to TB rubbers

id better find some aftermarket valve stem seals before i go too far ....has anybody found any that fit correctly , without the motobins etc price ?

Suzi Q · 29 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 02:29

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Do these things actually have them? LOL.

Seriously, they must be a standard part. I've never replaced any, but I'll pull one off a scrap head and measure it up and see what's out there.

charlie99 · 30 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 09:41

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that would be great Chris

please let me know if you find a common part

i need to get over to the regional engine reconditioning expert , a few kilometres off , in the car with the parts to hand to measure up

but end up travelling there by bike ....just for the ride ..lol

but brought back yesterday , bearings for a gearbox rebuild and stainless screws for sump strip off and refit , after its been sandblasted , all that black stuff off

still need a few seals for that process , yet

and hopefully someone doing an overseas order in the coming months for a head gasket , with shared mail costs ????

MartinW · 31 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 12:30

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Charlie as per Chris probably common to a few vehicles. If you know the sizes try Felpro. https://www.felpro.com/technical/tecblogs/valve-stem-seals.html There are others who do Teflon and Viton seals, your local engine builder should have aftermarket parts books converting sizes to part numbers. Bribery in an alcoholic form might be needed.
Regards Martin.

TacKler · 32 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 13:54

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charlie99 wrote:
and hopefully someone doing an overseas order in the coming months for a head gasket , with shared mail costs ????

Sorry Charlie, as I have a Motobins order in transit as we speak for which I did hang off ordering for a while.

If I had known a week earlier ..... affraid

Two Wheels Better · 33 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 14:09

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Thought I'd have a squiz at what's on offer from BMW here in Los Estados, and found head gasket part number 11 12 1 464 641 to be non-stocked in the US, but plenty in Germany, and selling for US$73.97 plus tax.

That makes the 'Bins version at US$31.00 a Very Good Deal.
cheers

charlie99 · 34 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 15:05

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Two Wheels Better wrote:Thought I'd have a squiz at what's on offer from BMW here in Los Estados, and found head gasket part number 11 12 1 464 641 to be non-stocked in the US, but plenty in Germany, and selling for US$73.97 plus tax.

That makes the 'Bins version at US$31.00 a Very Good Deal.

charlie99 · 35 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 20:09

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TacKler wrote:

charlie99 wrote:
and hopefully someone doing an overseas order in the coming months for a head gasket , with shared mail costs ????

Sorry Charlie, as I have a Motobins order in transit as we speak for which I did hang off ordering for a while.

If I had known a week earlier .....

its just a luck thing sometimes Dave

thanks for the thoughts mate

cheers

charlie99 · 36 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:02

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a spot of polish to the bell housing , not that i have seen many been done like this before ... hmm not too bad , clear coat should help it stay clean at least but not as shiny , to do

Suzi Q · 37 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:05

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Removed a valve seal and it's a standard form, measurements are:
Valve stem dia: 6.98mm
Valve guide dia: 9.4mm
Height of valve seal: 10mm ish

Googling so far, the 'standard' valve seal fitted to BeeEmm cages around that era is listed as 7x10x10. So two of the dimensions are right!

Still looking.... Smile

charlie99 · 38 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:09

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funny you should say that , was just talking to rickg on the phone , he seemed to think that there may be similarities across the marque as well
which makes perfect sense

um just an observation , that 9.4 stem mount width could well be a 10mm with the spring action reducing the diameter , from what i remember from fitting new ones , some 6 years or so ago ?

cheers chris

Suzi Q · 39 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:12

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Mornin'/Evenin, I have nowhere near your diligence when it comes to cleaning the ally casings - I get to the point where the metal is clean, but those black spots just won't come put. I stop short of removing metal. You've mentioned clearcoat in your previous post - have you tried the Rub N Buff wax? It's a proper wax, but with (I guess) aluminium or something paste in there too. It covers -my- black spots easily, but the advantage is that its a protective wax too, and you can redo it as much as you like. Not that it really needs redoing - it seems very durable once its on.

charlie99 · 40 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:24

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yes iv read about it , never seen it in operation , to my knowledge , but likely a show bike owners best friend and trade secret .

i dont think i have seen it advertised widely at all out here

if you have a link to the product , could be worth investigating for sure

to me if the item is not going to be subject to direct stone chips etc off the road , best to seal the finish , long term will likely need repaint but keeps it fresh and a quick sudsy wash usually cleans it all down after a wet event and road grime all over .
the really shiny side covers benefit from that canubia (sp) wax stuff very well .

thanks for the heads up again chris

Suzi Q · 41 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:43

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I'm thinking Elring part 701.289 It's fitted to a gazillion cars, including all the BeeEmms from that era. I can order them cheap as chips over here, and try them for size. Or can you get hold of them cheaply in the 'erm, colony?

(I'm not laughing - we have brexit, and we're heading for the third world, maybe the fourth world)

Suzi Q · 42 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:53

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...collecting one today, still a stock item here in the technological/social/economic backwater of good old Baaarnsley!

Suzi Q · 43 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 12 Feb 2021, 01:20

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Elring 701.289 is a perfect fit. Catalogue size is 7mm (nominal) bore/valve stem x 9.8mm bore/valve guide tip.

My mistake earlier - when measuring the valve guide tip (still in the head) I didn't spot the smaller dia section that I measured by mistake.

They're as cheap as 67 english pence over here - do you want some sending?

charlie99 · 44 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 12 Feb 2021, 01:39

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wow chris !!

thanks for looking

ill investigate the local sources first , thanks for the offer , just trying to limit the postage costs that have ballooned in the last few years

cheers mate

i wonder if this should make the forum suggested parts substitution pages ??

ever so grateful for your efforts

Suzi Q · 45 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 12 Feb 2021, 02:43

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Hi Charlie - check your PMs Smile

charlie99 · 46 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 26 Feb 2021, 14:57

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cheers Chris , appreciated indeed

some sump works

sand blasted all that black stuff off

then cleaned up somewhat , just waiting to get some clear coat in the coming weeks ?

Suzi Q · 47 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 26 Feb 2021, 23:43

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Okay, I've had enough. Will you please explain how you manage to clean inside the sight glass scratch

charlie99 · 48 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 04 Mar 2021, 05:27

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easy answer , i don't know chris ...lol

but a bit more work today

92KK 84WW Olaf · 49 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 04 Mar 2021, 05:58

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I love this thread.

I have an 83 engine here and been planning a job on my shed......you are giving me ideas.....could be a nice project!!!!

Also, I have seen 2 Ks that are 87 and have 85 engines in them from new.

charlie99 · 50 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 04 Mar 2021, 08:15

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hi Olaf

yes if you take your time , as we have said many times , big boys meccano , they are super easy to work on in many respects

re the 85 in 87 bikes , could this be that they were imported some time before being sold or at least put on the showroom floor , at all ???

and some very welcome news , at last, received your fantastic pudding in the mail last week , yippeee !!!

i guess i best find the local k bike folks to share it with , in the near future

thanks so much for the effort mate

really surprised me .

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1 85 engine resto ? Tue 29 Dec 2020, 23:06

charlie99

2 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 30 Dec 2020, 02:02

Dai

3 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 30 Dec 2020, 02:43

Stan

4 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 30 Dec 2020, 04:34

charlie99

5 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 30 Dec 2020, 10:32

Two Wheels Better

6 85 engine resto? Fri 01 Jan 2021, 12:48

Tom G

7 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 08 Jan 2021, 20:29

charlie99

8 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 08 Jan 2021, 23:47

Suzi Q

9 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 09 Jan 2021, 02:35

charlie99

10 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 09 Jan 2021, 03:19

Suzi Q

11 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sun 10 Jan 2021, 04:04

charlie99

12 Re: 85 engine resto ? Tue 12 Jan 2021, 13:08

charlie99

13 Re: 85 engine resto ? Tue 12 Jan 2021, 16:43

charlie99

14 Re: 85 engine resto ? Tue 12 Jan 2021, 16:54

Stan

15 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 13 Jan 2021, 01:21

moriarti

16 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 15 Jan 2021, 16:57

Dai

17 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 16 Jan 2021, 00:38

charlie99

18 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 16 Jan 2021, 12:24

Two Wheels Better

19 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sat 16 Jan 2021, 12:33

charlie99

20 TMTOHH Sun 17 Jan 2021, 18:31

ssk75rt

21 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sun 17 Jan 2021, 20:03

charlie99

22 Re: 85 engine resto ? Sun 24 Jan 2021, 04:55

charlie99

23 Re: 85 engine resto ? Mon 25 Jan 2021, 16:57

charlie99

24 Re: 85 engine resto ? Mon 25 Jan 2021, 19:27

Two Wheels Better

25 Re: 85 engine resto ? Mon 25 Jan 2021, 21:51

charlie99

26 Re: 85 engine resto ? Wed 27 Jan 2021, 20:51

charlie99

27 Re: 85 engine resto ? Fri 29 Jan 2021, 19:24

charlie99

28 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 00:16

charlie99

29 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 02:29

Suzi Q

30 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 09:41

charlie99

31 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 12:30

MartinW

32 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 13:54

TacKler

33 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 14:09

Two Wheels Better

34 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 15:05

charlie99

35 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 20:09

charlie99

36 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:02

charlie99

37 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:05

Suzi Q

38 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:09

charlie99

39 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:12

Suzi Q

40 Re: 85 engine resto ? Thu 11 Feb 2021, 23:24

charlie99