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K100-forum.com » Technical, repair and troubleshooting » Engine and transmission » High Idle Cable - 2 Positions? Really?

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jnclem

jnclem
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Does the high idle lever on the K actually have 2 solid positions? In other words, do you have two actual detents that you can set that lever in?

My '89 RS doesn't. It has a detent at position 1, and I can push it up to position 2 and it does pull the throttle plate up to the stop, but I have to hold it there to use position 2. No detent. It works the way it's supposed to, but no detent.

My 89 GS has not detents at all, But friction will hold the enrichener  lever wide open, or anywhere I want to put it.

No big deal, just curious.

    

Laitch

Laitch
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Life time member
To which model of GS are you referring?


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Laitch

Laitch
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You shouldn't need to hold the lever at the second position on the RS; it should stay where it's put.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
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Only one of my bikes(I've had 5) has had 2 detents.  I suspect that the second position is for cranking, and when the engine catches you can release it and the lever goes to the detent in the first position to warm up the engine.  I can't recall ever needing the second position once the engine started even in temperatures down to almost freezing.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Point-Seven-five wrote:Only one of my bikes(I've had 5) has had 2 detents.  I suspect that the second position is for cranking, and when the engine catches you can release it and the lever goes to the detent in the first position to warm up the engine. 
According to BMW scripture, on the 2V motos, the second position is for starting below 32ºF and the first position is for starting above 32ºF, if necessary. In either case once started, the rider is supposed to get going and not dawdle. Starting speed indication lamps are often undependable or non-existent. The rider is expected to shut down the starting speed control after underway instead of using darting off the road in a curve when downshifting as a prompt.   Smile

jnclem's first and second position starting speed cable gaps probably need to be adjusted. There's a detente ball in the lever that might be missing. I've lubricated the assembly on my moto when it got stiff; other than that, it's never had a will of its own.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

jnclem

jnclem
active member
active member
Laitch wrote:You shouldn't need to hold the lever at the second position on the RS; it should stay where it's put.
Ok, I might dig into the lever and see what's up. It is really no problem, I was just curious.



Last edited by jnclem on Wed May 19, 2021 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total

    

jnclem

jnclem
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Laitch wrote:To which model of GS are you referring?
I was just making the comparison that they made different kinds of levers. It's an R100gs.

    

jnclem

jnclem
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Point-Seven-five wrote:Only one of my bikes(I've had 5) has had 2 detents.  I suspect that the second position is for cranking, and when the engine catches you can release it and the lever goes to the detent in the first position to warm up the engine.  I can't recall ever needing the second position once the engine started even in temperatures down to almost freezing.
Right. I don't need it either once it's started. I never gave it a second thought. I just pushed it up to position 2 when needed, started the engine, and dropped it to position one until it would idle. I just got thinking the other day that there is likely supposed to be a second detent to hold it up there. Generally, if it's really cold, I just hold a touch of throttle for a minute and that's all it needs. The cable is set right and pulls the plate as far as it's supposed to for each position.

    

Mick67

Mick67
Silver member
Silver member
For what its worth my early 2V also doesn't hold the second position. I hold in second position until it fires and then release and it holds in the 1st position until clicked off manually.


__________________________________________________
K100RS 1984
VIN 0013414
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Mick67 wrote:For what its worth . . .
It doesn't seem like it's worth as much as mine, Mick. Mine is appearing to be like a rare flaw in a run of minted coins. A few more examples of self-regulating starting speed levers here and I'l be auctioning my moto's lever to the highest bidding collector on ebay, once the reserve is met, of course.  Smile


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

jnclem

jnclem
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Mick67 wrote:For what its worth my early 2V also doesn't hold the second position. I hold in second position until it fires and then release and it holds in the 1st position until clicked off manually.
Yup. Same.

    

jnclem

jnclem
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Laitch wrote:
Mick67 wrote:For what its worth . . .
It doesn't seem like it's worth as much as mine, Mick. Mine is appearing to be like a rare flaw in a run of minted coins. A few more examples of self-regulating starting speed levers here and I'l be auctioning my moto's lever to the highest bidding collector on ebay, once the reserve is met, of course.  Smile
Actually, no. My RS is the finest K100 ever made. Yours appears to be some sort of freak, Friday afternoon patch together job that received one too many detents. That's alright. You seem to like it.  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

    

Laitch

Laitch
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jnclem wrote:Actually, no. My RS is the finest K100 ever made. Yours appears to be some sort of freak, Friday afternoon patch together job that received one too many detents. That's alright. You seem to like it.  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
It isn't so much like as appreciate, like appreciating that a chunk of frozen human waste falling from an airplane hit the guy in front of me instead of me. I do have empathy though.  Smile



Last edited by Laitch on Wed May 19, 2021 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
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Going out in the garage and checking, the one bike that I have with the double detent is my 1994 K75RT. Since Laitch's bike is a 1995, and all my single detent bikes were 1992 or earlier. This makes me think that the double detent is a feature of the later bikes so I guess we're all correct as to how our bikes work.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

MartinW

MartinW
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My 1992 K75s has double detent.
Regards Martin.


__________________________________________________
1992 K75s
    

robmack

robmack
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There are two different detent plates available.  Both are curved and are embedded in the choke lever housing.  One plate design has two holes and is a large arc shape.  The second style plate only has one hole and is a much smaller arc shape.  Either are interchangeable.  As point 75 says, the double detent plate was a later issue.  Below is a snap from the RealOEM page for the K75 showing the full detent plate (#7):

High Idle Cable - 2 Positions? Really? Detent10



Last edited by robmack on Wed May 19, 2021 1:43 pm; edited 2 times in total


__________________________________________________
Robert
1987 K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca
http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
    

jnclem

jnclem
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Well that clears it up. This is an ‘89. The manual talks about 2 positions, so maybe it was coming soon. Interesting. I think my 93 K1100lt had 2 actual detents, but I couldn’t swear to it. I like this bike so much better than that one.

    

Laitch

Laitch
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Well, I guess getting the new Winnebago with my auction proceeds is off the table. I didn't like the color scheme anyway.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Laitch

Laitch
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jnclem wrote:The manual talks about 2 positions, so maybe it was coming soon. 
It came soon alright. This illustration and its accompanying instruction is from the 1984 K100 manual. So, call me a Doubting Thomas but I think maladjustment is still in play because freedom of rotation seems to be governed by a friction washer, but as robmack indicates, there are two differing detent plates.

I'll bet a large maple creemee, topped with maple sugar dust, from Morse Farm on my perspective being the correct one. Bring on the increased starting speed assembly cadavers and let's have some autopsies! cheers
I'm willing to sacrifice my dream of being an impediment on my nation's highways just to be right.



Last edited by Laitch on Thu May 20, 2021 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Attitude adjustment)


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Mick67

Mick67
Silver member
Silver member
Couldn't sleep until I had a look (anxiety at something not working on my bike and a deep jealousy of a 2 position lever), so went digging.

I present the following as evidence only. The experts can do the forensics...however it appears that I, as the song goes, do indeed only have one ball.Sad

High Idle Cable - 2 Positions? Really? 20210510


__________________________________________________
K100RS 1984
VIN 0013414
    

jnclem

jnclem
active member
active member
Mick67 wrote:Couldn't sleep until I had a look (anxiety at something not working on my bike and a deep jealousy of a 2 position lever), so went digging.

I present the following as evidence only. The experts can do the forensics...however it appears that I, as the song goes, do indeed only have one ball.Sad

High Idle Cable - 2 Positions? Really? 20210510
No Maple creemee for Laitch.

    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Hey! this is fun. As long as we're arguing about this bit of kit, let me speculate that the second detent is handy for getting the engine to idle at a high enough speed to get the alternator to charge the battery. A while back I was checking the alternator on one of my bikes and found that it did not go above 13volts until the engine speed exceeded 2000rpm. The first detent only takes engine speed to about 1500-1800rpm, while the second will take it to about 2500 up to 3000rpm. Of course, your rpm may vary.

So, maybe the second detent is there to allow the engine to idle fast enough to charge the battery.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
jnclem wrote:
Mick67 wrote:I present the following as evidence only. The experts can do the forensics...however it appears that I, as the song goes, do indeed only have one ball.Sad
No Maple creemee for Laitch.
I can get a maple creemee anytime, even in the dead of winter, jnclem. This creemee is an award for excellence in inquiry. Mick has earned one and is free to drop in here then we'll ride to Morse's. It might be a little out-of-the-way for Mick but the trip will be worth it; however only one example does not constitute a well-developed body of evidence so take yours apart too.  Smile  Get with the program. Point-Seven-five is also in the creemee queue.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
Creemee!!! cheers


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

Shep

Shep
Life time member
Life time member
So, if someone is keeping track of all this then add to it my 1987 RS has only one hold position on the choke with the ability to rev the engine higher but by manually moving & holding the choke lever to a second position.
Shep


__________________________________________________
Model        Production Date/Serial Number
K100RS      1984 July/ (F0040448)
K100RS      1986 Dec/ (H0142581)
    

Laitch

Laitch
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Shep wrote:So, if someone is keeping track . . .
I'm keeping track of all this, Shep, although I'd prefer photo documentation of research to prevent temptation of creemee privilege abuse.  Smile  I'm already up to a six dollar investment and the research grant does have qualifications and a ceiling. Contact me through the site to make an appointment.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Ringfad

Ringfad
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I must be bored but had to go out and check all my bikes and they all only have 1 ball.

K100RS 1987 Style, K1 1990 and 1993, K1100lt 1992 (swiss)


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High Idle Cable - 2 Positions? Really? Ir-log10

 ;BMW; K1 Black 1993 60K Km     ;BMW;  K1100RS Black 1996       ;BMW; K1 Blue 1990 25K Miles

 ;BMW; K1200RS Red
    

Laitch

Laitch
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Life time member
Point-Seven-five wrote:Since Laitch's bike is a 1995, and all my single detent bikes were 1992 or earlier.  This makes me think that the double detent is a feature of the later bikes so I guess we're all correct as to how our bikes work.
Incoming data suggests that is accurate. The double detente [sic] plate was probably developed as an accommodation for arthritic thumbs straining to hold full fast starting speed position on motos that were desperately out-of-tune. 

There might be a lesson here about sectarian beliefs perhaps undermining a thorough comprehension of reality but the jury is still out. Laughing



Last edited by Laitch on Thu May 20, 2021 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Hair shirt fitment)


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
Ringfad wrote:I must be bored but had to go out and check all my bikes and they all only have 1 ball.
I'm idle, but this research is so stimulating that boredom can make no headway. I believe all of these levers have only one ball. The investigation concerns the number of holes in the mechanism's detente plate that can accept the ball. Nonetheless, Ringfad's overcoming of inertia has qualified for the award.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

Mick67

Mick67
Silver member
Silver member
In an attempt to achieve detente about detents, I agree we all only have one ball, I also have only one 'ball holder'.

No idea what a Creemee is, but a North American ride does interest me...Just got to wait for the statute of limitations to expire from my last visit.

As an aside, I only pack detent if we are camping out.


__________________________________________________
K100RS 1984
VIN 0013414
    

jnclem

jnclem
active member
active member
Laitch wrote:
jnclem wrote:
Mick67 wrote:I present the following as evidence only. The experts can do the forensics...however it appears that I, as the song goes, do indeed only have one ball.Sad
No Maple creemee for Laitch.
I can get a maple creemee anytime, even in the dead of winter, jnclem. This creemee is an award for excellence in inquiry. Mick has earned one and is free to drop in here then we'll ride to Morse's. It might be a little out-of-the-way for Mick but the trip will be worth it; however only one example does not constitute a well-developed body of evidence so take yours apart too.  Smile  Get with the program. Point-Seven-five is also in the creemee queue.
Ok, although I am likely not motivated enough to tear into a perfectly functioning idle lever, I was motivated enough to Google Maple Creemee. I must say that it looks good. As to the idle lever, even here in ice box Gunnison, I only hold it all the way open a couple of times each year, so I'm happy with the single detent. For the curious https://newengland.com/today/travel/vermont/maple-creemee/

    

JSFR80

JSFR80
active member
active member
Hey Laitch, I'll take you up on the large maple creeme bet. I also live in Vermont, so am close enough to collect on it. Very Happy  Both of my k75's, a 1990 and a 1991, have the double detents. Both of my k100's, a 1987 and a 1991 have single detents. According to MAX's parts fiche the k75 and k100 housings have different part numbers, so I'm betting it's a k75 vs k100 thing.

    

Shep

Shep
Life time member
Life time member
Also living in a cold area where I have only been able to ride up to the middle of November before shutting down (due to ice on roads and snow).
On my 1987 K100 RS I have only used the choke above the first indent a few times a year for ten seconds or so and then release it to sit at the first and only indent on the choke. Just checked the 1985 K100 RS project bike and it also has a single indent.
Shep


__________________________________________________
Model        Production Date/Serial Number
K100RS      1984 July/ (F0040448)
K100RS      1986 Dec/ (H0142581)
    

34Back to top Go down   High Idle Cable - 2 Positions? Really? Empty Detent Thu May 20, 2021 11:44 am

daveyson

daveyson
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Hey JSFR, luckily you live in Vermont, so your close enough to deliver a creemee. I have a '91 K75S, it only has one detent, so I don't think it's a K75 thing. I wonder if it's a later option based on the climate of the country. I never need it.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 BMW K100RT (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

JSFR80

JSFR80
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daveyson wrote:Hey JSFR, luckily you live in Vermont, so your close enough to deliver a creemee. I have a '91 K75S, it only has one detent, so I don't think it's a K75 thing. I wonder if it's a later option based on the climate of the country. I never need it.
That is unusual  scratch. Mine is also a 91 k75s and it definitely has two detents. All k75's also have a different part number than all the k100's. Every k75 I have seen has two. Does anybody else out there have a k75 with only one detent?

    

TacKler

TacKler
Life time member
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I've checked all my 75s and they all have the second detent.  They range in age from an '89 through to '94.   High Idle Cable - 2 Positions? Really? 214585 
One is a Euro delivery bike and the others are all Oz models.


__________________________________________________
Red 1991 K75S
    

Laitch

Laitch
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JSFR80 wrote:According to MAX's parts fiche the k75 and k100 housings have different part numbers, so I'm betting it's a k75 vs k100 thing.
The K1100 models have the same housing number as the K100 models so those who own a K1100 should come forward with their research results and let us know if that model has a two-stop or a one-stop-and-press assembly, if they haven't been lulled into unconsciousness by all this. I think it'll be a two-stop.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

38Back to top Go down   High Idle Cable - 2 Positions? Really? Empty Detent Thu May 20, 2021 5:35 pm

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
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Well there ya go, another example where I thought I could rely on my memory, actually my k75 does have two detents. Actually maybe even three, off position feels like a detent too. And four k100's which only have one.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 BMW K100RT (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

jnclem

jnclem
active member
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daveyson wrote:Well there ya go, another example where I thought I could rely on my memory, actually my k75 does have two detents. Actually maybe even three, off position feels like a detent too. And four k100's which only have one.
I really thought this was a simple question.  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  I sold my 93 K1100 to my brother in Minnesota. Now I have to email him and have him go out and check the number of detents on that bike. Rolling Eyes

    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
jnclem wrote:I really thought this was a simple question. 
Actually, you raised two questions—one regarding the universality of increased starting speed deployment capability, and one questioning reality.  Smile


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

daveyson

daveyson
Life time member
Life time member

I really thought this was a simple question.  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  

I knew you would be surprised how much traction this got. I'm sure I'm not the only other one surprised by it. 

The other surprising thing for me was that this thread made me hungry. It's entirely the fault of this thread that I had too many slices of pizza last night. That's gotta be worth a creemee for me, or some sort of treat, I'll have to have a look see.


__________________________________________________
11/1985 BMW K100RT (late model)  Vin. 0090567
 ~120,000 km
    

Point-Seven-five

Point-Seven-five
Life time member
Life time member
With a modicum of effort this thread can be as long or longer than the recent one about engine noises.


__________________________________________________
Present: 1991 K100RS "Moby Brick Too"
 
Past:
1994 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
1988 K100RS SE "Special Ed"
1994 K75S "Cheetos"
1992 K100RS "Moby Brick" R.I.P.
1982 Honda FT500
1979 Honda XR185
1977 Honda XL125
1974 Honda XL125
1972 OSSA Pioneer 250
1968 Kawasaki 175
    

jnclem

jnclem
active member
active member
Laitch wrote:
jnclem wrote:I really thought this was a simple question. 
Actually, you raised two questions—one regarding the universality of increased starting speed deployment capability, and one questioning reality.  Smile
Not to mention, what the heck is a maple creemee.

    

BenKRS

BenKRS
active member
active member
jnclem wrote:
Laitch wrote:
jnclem wrote:I really thought this was a simple question. 
Actually, you raised two questions—one regarding the universality of increased starting speed deployment capability, and one questioning reality.  Smile
Not to mention, what the heck is a maple creemee.
 I don't know why anyone  hasn't  thought of this earlier but....Is it better to be outside detent pee(K)ing in, or Inside detent pee(K)ing out? your thoughts

    

Laitch

Laitch
Life time member
Life time member
BenKRS wrote:I don't know why anyone  hasn't  thought of this earlier but....
Maybe everyone has just been two tents to consider that.


__________________________________________________
1995 K75 90,000 miles
    

tinyspuds

tinyspuds
Life time member
Life time member
Laitch wrote:a chunk of frozen human waste falling from an airplane hit the guy in front of me
That would make the extra detent


__________________________________________________
1985 BMW K100RT + Hedingham HUB and LL’s. VIN 0028106.
1986 K100RS in boxes. VIN 0141918.
1954 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet. Original.
2000 Hayabusa with Charnwood chair, Wasp forks and EZS wheels.
    

MartinW

MartinW
Life time member
Life time member
DetenTion is getting to me I am on de-tenterhooks in anticipation for the final outcome..
Regards Martin


__________________________________________________
1992 K75s
    

jnclem

jnclem
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The mystery remains. I finally got word from my brother, only one fast idle position on the '93 K1100lt. So it’s not just based on model year. This has been fun, but then, I’m easily amused.

    

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