So I've mentioned having started a new '86 K100 restoration project. I picked the bike up on the advice of my friend Greg H. Think he was concerned that I didn't have a suitable project to keep me from going off during the pandemic. He had also advised another friend who picked up a R90S from the same fellow. Greg seems to know everyone in the game in the local area. Now the sellor, his name is John and best leave it at that, started off our initial conversation with how he was selling as he needed the money to pay his bail. Seems John had fallen off the wagon and lost it when the Indian investors who bought the building where he has been property manager forever in the citizen's nation of Berkeley, did something or the other. He really wasn't clear about what. But Whilst off the wagon John apparently waved a pistol around and maybe fired a couple of shots in the air. John was a bit sketchy about that. But the local police picked him up and ransacked his apt looking for more firearms. Despite all the rumors about American gun culture the police do seem to take notice of certain things. So John needed to sell the two bikes which apparently had been left moldering in an apt building garage in Berkeley for the past 10 years. So despite it's not being in running state, on Greg's advice I paid John $500 USD for the K100. To say it was in sad shape would be an understatement. Seriously I didn't know that stainless steel could rust like that. But I was able to get the bike's engine to start up before I tore into it. So last Friday, I dropped by Greg's shop, he is mostly into airheads but dabbles a bit in older K's, and ran into the fellow who had bought the R90S. We're talking, comparing notes about the bikes, John and his litany of complaints and I, being nosy, asked how much he had paid for the R90S.  I mean seriously the bike supposedly has less than 100K miles on it but he and Greg are tearing the engine down, replacing the rods, and other meaty motorcycle projects to restore this R90. His reply is that he got it for a mere (drum roll) $3,000. USD. My jaw bounced when it hit the floor. That's INSANE!! Seriously an R90S is a nice toy but really??. Then the two of them start filling my poor head with factoids like R90S in good shape (I'm sure) go for in the $20K+  USD range. I'm looking at them HARD! Surely they're just pulling my legs (all three of them) as I must look like a total nob. But no they're telling the truth or at least as it is known to them. My K100 project will be for a ride able bike. Not sure what that R90S is going to do but it sounds like it's going in someone's living room as a decoration.

Well for some people it is the classic sports BM to have. My ex-Motorworks pal runs one and worships it; and his BM knowledge is stellar.
For me, it's nothing special. But with these things, the market seems able to convince itself of their value. Yep, 20k is insane  

Yep. Remember nailing an R90S down the local dual carriageway about thirty-five years ago and wasn't that impressed. Then did the same run with an R100RS and nearly shat myself when the backend started skipping on the bridge expansion joints and it set up a backend weave. The bridge was a curved one and I was was doing some highly illegal speeds...

I’ve always thought that the best thing about the R90S was that it introduced BMW to a slightly different market, and led to a more modern boxer. 
I’ve had at least three R100RS, and loved every one. 20k for an R90S is nuts (when you can get a rebuilt Duke 900SS for that ).

I once had a R100RS, nice bike, but my knees were stuck in the fairing.
That was the reason I sold it.....

MAX BMW did a project back in 2014 where they built a R90S from the ground up using only new parts from the factory replacement catalog (story link: https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2014/01/13/from-scratch-bmw-r90s-motorcycle-build-finished ).  Ended up costing $46,000 in parts alone; add extra for mechanics' time.  So, that makes $20K seem like a bargain.

I have never even sat on a boxer!

The first time I sat on a BMW happened to be taking a K100LT I had considered buying, for a test ride. So, I took it for €1,000 and I had a running 92 K100LT that I took home on a trailer, spent €385 at  a local shop on giving it a full service, brakes overhaul, clutch cable and host of things.

I lusted after the R90S but really preferred the Ducati and Guzzi. Never got either of them, just a Klutter of Ks instead.

The Moto Guzzi V7 is supposed to be like a R90S, in performance and feel.  I owned a MG V7R for several years and was totally underwhelmed by it.  It was light and flickable but lacked a lot when compared to my K75.  Both are the same displacement so my expectation would be both are close in performance.  I never fell in love with the V7 and sold it.  Like you, Olaf, I've never even sat on a R-bike but I imagine I'd have the same impression with the R90S as I had with the V7R.

jjefferies wrote:His reply is that he got it for a mere (drum roll) $3,000. USD. My jaw bounced when it hit the floor. That's INSANE!! Seriously an R90S is a nice toy but really??. Then the two of them start filling my poor head with factoids like R90S in good shape (I'm sure) go for in the $20K+  USD range. I'm looking at them HARD!

What's insane to me is living in a state that both bans denatured alcohol and thrives in hyperbole.    

An R90S is hardly a toy and would make as good a commuter moto for me as any other. If I could have found one in good operating condition for ≤3K before I bought my Brick, that's what I'd be riding but then, I've had plenty of experience with old boxer engines. There's no doubt though, that the Brick has been as reliable a package as I could have wanted. This is the typical cherry price of an R90S in New England and environs.

Arlina wrote:I once had a R100RS, nice bike, but my knees were stuck in the fairing.
That was the reason I sold it.....

Ahhh! Long legs - I have the opposite problem. My wet head GS was on the edge of my safe seat height, which is why I sold it. The RS on the other hand fitted me like it was custom built. Which is why I bought a few.

I also have never had a ride on a boxer.  I've always thought that they were too expensive for what I need.  When a friend bought a K100RS for $1500 and we worked a bit on it I became a classic K fan.  

While the old boxers still look nice, they seem to have a premium due to the airheads love affair with them.  I wouldn't mind an R65 or R90S, but only for $2000, which is what I can get a very nice K100RS for.  Vintage boxers sort of remind me of Hardley's with their 1930's technology and a massive fan base. I'm always amazed at the prices people ask for these bikes on Craig's List.

In my mind, the classic K is the perfect mix of technology(shaft drive, fuel injection, ABS, mono shock) in a user friendly package that is rock solid reliable and pleasant to ride all for a bargain price.

$20k US seems like a lot. The most desirable Daytona Orange in original, unmolested condition and a good runner can fetch up to £10k (GBP) in the UK. An R100RS in better condition might go for £4-5k (GBP) although £3k is nearer the mark. Yet the R100RS is the same bike but better in every way. Both could be used as every day transport and rack up miles as they did when young. You do occasionally see an R100RS that has been "remanufactured" and they want about £10k for these. But they are, in effect, new bikes.

A high price has its advantages. It makes it financially worthwhile to maintan them in good condition. It means that spares get manufactured when OEM runs out. The price is not out of all proportion to a new-ish R1200RS and I know what I'd rather have. even if I still had a 110 mile round-trip commute. And it does deter the bobber/cafe-racer mob from messing up a perfectly good bike.

Which brings me to the question - why are K100s so cheap? Not a bad bike; solid, reliable and generally withstood the ravages of time. But half the price of the equivalent condition R100. Is it the price of spares, 'cos they all need something, although we're comparing two BMWs? But Honda spares are just as expensive and VFR750s go for more. Same for FJ1100.

Is it all about age? 'Cos there nothing particularly rare about any of these bikes. Or is it fashion?

To answer your question, non-beemer bikers aren't going to be interested in owning an old BMW, and I find that BMW owners see them as sort of illegitimate step brothers to their beloved R bikes. There just isn't a lot of love out there for these misunderstood machines. Curiosity, maybe, but love? Not really.

P75 - when I lived in the US in the 80s I’m not sure I ever saw one - and recall that their European reputation for reliability didn’t cross the Atlantic either. But I’ve loved all my Boxers, both for commuting and two up touring. Thousands of Germans and Dutch have always stormed around Europe on them with great pride and I couldn’t ride my GS without a sh*t eating grin. 
But they’ve always held a mystique this side of the pond - deserved or not. Bikes eh? Not always the most rational decisions .
Likewise if you weren’t born into the Chevy vs Ford tradition, it remains a mystery to outsiders.

tinyspuds wrote:I’ve always thought that the best thing about the R90S was that it introduced BMW to a slightly different market, and led to a more modern boxer. 
I’ve had at least three R100RS, and loved every one. 20k for an R90S is nuts (when you can get a rebuilt Duke 900SS for that ).

I love the R100RS fairing. I've got a R100RT fairing on Red, my K75 with 164,800 miles on it. And have been looking for a R100RS fairing for one of my other K's. I just like the styling, very classic. The K's, at least the older variety, are my idea of a superior motor and drive train. With minimal electronics. The early ABS does not appeal and I've not had experience with the new varieties. But I've been looking for a trashed out RRS fairing that I could use. Either to restore or to use as a male mould to make others. Unless of course there's a easier and cheaper way to get a RRS. The last two on ebay were kind of ridiculous. $500 for a beat up fairing or even the $1000 for everything including instrument. Someday.

I had an R80RT with the barn door fairing, couldn’t beat it for protection but I’m not a great fan (maybe the 80 just wasn’t up to it). However the RS fairing was wind tunnel developed and fabulous to look at and ride behind. Good luck with your search.

Edit: just did a quick search in the UK - A few under 200 USD but couldn’t get a handle on US shipping costs.

The local dealership where I work has sold passel of classic Airhead twins recently. The first, an original R80G/S, went out the door for $8,500 in good nick. A fairly decently renovated '74 R90S in silver smoke (but later tank & petrol cap) achieved $10,000. A clean 1977 R100RS still with its blue callipers and pinstriped wheels sold for another $10,000. A 1994 R100GS-Dakar with a load of original accessories and less than 50,000 miles showing went away on a truck for $8,500. 

When I consider than when new in January of 1977 R75/7 I plopped down US$3,100 ($4,000 all up with Luftmeister fairing, Reynolds rack & Krauser bags) because I could not afford the $5,000 asking price for the RS version, things haven't changed that much, inflation and dollar devaluation wise. 

But $20,000 for these things?! Yea, a bit rich. You gotta wanna really own one, I s'pose.

Point-Seven-five wrote:To answer your question, non-beemer bikers aren't going to be interested in owning an old BMW, and I find that BMW owners see them as sort of illegitimate step brothers to their beloved R bikes.   There just isn't a lot of love out there for these misunderstood machines.  Curiosity, maybe, but love?  Not really.

I've always had the impression BMW folk don't look past the blue/white roundel ,  but certainly, as a Brit/Jap bike owner, it was curiosity that brought me to the party. And maybe I can answer my own question - I wouldn't have bought a K if it wasn't cheap enough to try something different. So perhaps the market is such that most will shop elsewhere if the price of Ks goes higher; I probably would have gone for another V-four.

Covid lockdown seems to have driven classic bike prices higher over the past year; all those middle-aged men stuck at home hankering after their lost youth perhaps. Or maybe it's the prospect of the demise of the internal combustion engine - just 10 years left to get your fix.

I would rather have covid than a bing carburetor just cause I like riding not tuning. The injected Rs are reliable but Just don't like the frame toque from the engine or the surging. Ks may not be the most attractive moto out there but they can eat up miles day after day. I just can't imagine what the 1800R is like, I'm happy with what I got!