Hi all, it's time to replace the cheap cracking injection hose on my K yet again and I was just wondering what people are using? I see Codan R9 is available here in the UK but it's about £17 a metre which is going some.. I also see Goodyear and Goodrich are seen as good brands too but they don't seem to be easy to buy.

Anyone got some pointers? I promised myself I'd fit some proper stuff this time!

Motobins sell 'high pressure' fuel hose (95410) for 7.80 including VAT. They reference simple fuel hose part 13 11 1 337 827, and it's not clear if this is their replacement for the immersible type.

While Motorworks has it for 10.49 Incl VAT. They list immersible type in a variety of styles and prices, with their basic at 9.04 and premium over 28...

Motorworks

I'd seen what Motorworks are offering and it looks like the Chinese stuff that is absolutely ubiquitous here (and can be had for £3 a metre!). I see Moto-Bins are also just selling "hose", no mention of manufacturer.. I would absolutely be expecting the same cheap stuff from them.

Do other people not have this problem? Mine cracks up after 2 years, it's annoying!

For what it's worth here is an example of the cheap stuff, the "W = SAE J30 R9" is a giveaway. Once you notice it you realise that everyone is selling the same weirdly shiny and smooth-looking stuff. I want something better this time..

When I was last working for the local BMW dealerships, and had a good discount, I bought several metres of it. The last install was 2015 and it's going strong. Sometimes it's pay me now or pay me later. It's a bitch that it costs so much. Must be magic unobtanium secret recipe ethanol fairy dust rubber.

My local Honda dealer sells the exact same stuff as the BM dealer 8/13mm for very good money. Seems Hondas use the same fuel line.

Submersible from Auto Barn is $100.00 Au per metre. Online supplier in S.A $50.00 Au. And a local shop Motorsports Accessories Brendale $18.00 per Metre. And they stock a card of the correct EFI hose clips.
Regards Martin.

Snod Blatter wrote:Do other people not have this problem? Mine cracks up after 2 years, it's annoying!

For what it's worth here is an example of the cheap stuff, the "W = SAE J30 R9" is a giveaway.

Exactly! According to these SAE standards, R9 hose is permeated more easily by ethanol blends greater that 5%. That's why it's cracking up and is a bargain. R12 is the type suitable for fuel feed and return lines working with higher concentrations of ethanol and other compounds.

But here in the UK we only have 5% ethanol as a maximum (for now!). The Volksbolts place is only in Nuneaton, not far from me, I have considered going there but they want the same amount for good hose as anywhere else.

I'm not at all surprised the BMW and Honda hose lasts longer, there's hose and then there's hose.

I thought I'd get a lot more people chipping in on this, cracked fuel hose is something most K owners will have come across.. Oh well.

Snod Blatter wrote:But here in the UK we only have 5% ethanol as a maximum (for now!).

10% is what we have here and there's even a half-hearted push for 15% in some quarters but that probably won't fly with the public here. My moto's fuel hoses haven't cracked like yours. I'm using R10 and R12 hoses. The z-hose has cracked but the original throttle body rubber is holding up. 

Besides hose quality, storage environment or climate could be a factor. My moto is parked outside under cover on a gravel driveway along a humid and forested gravel road for six months a year and ridden daily. The other six months, it's parked uncovered on the concrete floor of an unheated shop in frigid temperatures with its transmission battery ground cable detached.

An urban or busy suburban environment might offer up more air pollutants like ozone to affect the rubber components. Less costly low-grade hose can't handle it.

I had the problem sorcing submersible hose as well. Pirtex hoses came to my aid. Hose comes in red hose is printed as follows.
PIRTEX RED-FLEX SERIES II MULTI-PURPOSE NON CONDUCTIVE IRRF-08, 7.9MM 20.7BAR(300PSI WP RMA CLASS A OIL RESISTANCE

Snod Blatter wrote:But here in the UK we only have 5% ethanol as a maximum (for now!).

The 'Corn Lobby' in the UK must not have its fingernails dug in so deep as they do in DC. Riding across Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa & etc., every square inch of arable land, right up to behind barns and outbuildings, is under cultivation with corn, but it's not the edible kind, or the sort you'd typically feed to cows. Nope, a large share of it gets ingested by internal combustion engines. In Australia it's heaps of sugarcane, Brazil, too. I surely hope the US EPA don't force us to burn 15% in Los Estados Unidos. There goes the life of any rubber components in the fuel systems of many current and most earlier vehicles.

Snod Blatter wrote:But here in the UK we only have 5% ethanol as a maximum (for now!). The Volksbolts place is only in Nuneaton, not far from me, I have considered going there but they want the same amount for good hose as anywhere else.

I'm not at all surprised the BMW and Honda hose lasts longer, there's hose and then there's hose.

I thought I'd get a lot more people chipping in on this, cracked fuel hose is something most K owners will have come across.. Oh well.

It'll be 10% soon enough. It's already been legislated for; just can't remember the date of introduction. Guess who will be swapping to premium for all bikes.

Dai wrote:

Snod Blatter wrote:But here in the UK we only have 5% ethanol as a maximum (for now!). The Volksbolts place is only in Nuneaton, not far from me, I have considered going there but they want the same amount for good hose as anywhere else.

I'm not at all surprised the BMW and Honda hose lasts longer, there's hose and then there's hose.

I thought I'd get a lot more people chipping in on this, cracked fuel hose is something most K owners will have come across.. Oh well.

It'll be 10% soon enough. It's already been legislated for; just can't remember the date of introduction. Guess who will be swapping to premium for all bikes.

Here in Los Estados, unless you specifically go to a non-ethanol station, it's in all grades. You cannot get away from it unless you're in farming or boating country.

Dai wrote:It'll be 10% soon enough. It's already been legislated for; just can't remember the date of introduction. Guess who will be swapping to premium for all bikes.

Tell me about it, it's already an absolute pain touring Europe on something more than 20 years old - seem to need to pay out for Super every time.

I was always under the impression that the FPR and injectors would suffer with E10, fitting compatible hose would be the easy bit. Is this not the case?

Also we do have Pirtek here in the UK but they're more about hydraulic hose and fittings, could still be worth a phone call though.

Snod Blatter wrote:

Dai wrote:It'll be 10% soon enough. It's already been legislated for; just can't remember the date of introduction. Guess who will be swapping to premium for all bikes.

Tell me about it, it's already an absolute pain touring Europe on something more than 20 years old - seem to need to pay out for Super every time.

I was always under the impression that the FPR and injectors would suffer with E10, fitting compatible hose would be the easy bit. Is this not the case?

Also we do have Pirtek here in the UK but they're more about hydraulic hose and fittings, could still be worth a phone call though.

In Los Estados the FPR and injectors of may various Beemers do not suffer using ethanol fuels at the federally mandated 10% level, short-term. I'll wager there's some damage or breakdown in rubber components during long-term storage, and this is why I seek out ethanol-free when I can, but also use additives like Seafoam, Star Tron or Berryman's for cleaning out the system and conditioning the crappy ethanol fuel. My old carbie bike had new o-rings whacked into the Bings every two years or so when I was using it. It currently sits in long-term storage empty of any fuel or fuel residue.

Two Wheels Better wrote:Here in Los Estados, unless you specifically go to a non-ethanol station, it's in all grades. You cannot get away from it unless you're in farming or boating country.

Yeah, I've noticed that riding across Iowa and Nebraska.  As soon as you get a few miles off the interstate you find that only one pump at a gas station will have ethanol and the non-ethanol doesn't have the premium price.  Why is it that the people who make that crap don't have to use it in their engines?

After ethanol destroyed thousands of boats, I believe the marine insurance companies lobbied to have the requirement for ethanol waived for marine use.  Unfortunately, for some reason motorcycles aren't covered for the damage caused by fuel like boats.  I've often wondered why an ambulance chaser hasn't put together a big class action lawsuit against the people making ethanol.  Seems there could be a nice payday there.

Seafoam can eliminate the damaging effects of ethanol in fuel? I thought Seafoam was a detergent to remove petroleum deposits.

brickrider2 wrote:Seafoam can eliminate the damaging effects of ethanol in fuel? I thought Seafoam was a detergent to remove petroleum deposits.

If you're willing to believe both advertising and some of your Brick-riding cohort, then it does both.

brickrider2 wrote:Seafoam can eliminate the damaging effects of ethanol in fuel? I thought Seafoam was a detergent to remove petroleum deposits.

What I wrote: '...additives like Seafoam....or Berryman's for cleaning out the system...'
What I meant: 'Star Tron...for conditioning the crappy ethanol fuel.'

My apologies for not spelling out plainly.

Useful article here: http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/fuelhose.htm
Seems to match up with other references.

So R10 hose for in-tank, R9 for external lines. And R12 is not better than R10.

Unfortunately volksbolts do not list R10 hose...

Fuel hose demystified:

https://www.underhoodservice.com/correct-fuel-hose-installation/

stanthomas wrote: And R12 is not better than R10.

This statement is a misinterpretation of the CODAN article's statement. The CODAN assertion was, R12 is not necessarily better than an R10 grade as the two hose standards cover different application zones. R10 is submersible; R12 isn't. R12 would likely be less costly for exterior fuel feed and return lines than R10. CODAN doesn't offer a fuel-submersible hose on its chart. It's R9 is inner-resistant to the affects of fuel.

Regardless, I think we're developing a viable stand-in for oil and tire threads here.

Ah man I didn't ask for this, I just wanted some recommendations/experiences of cheap and easily sourced injection hose.

Volksbolts seem to be considered an expert source but they're just a distributor trying to shift Codan hose for £17 a metre. R9 will stand up to ethanol as an external hose so that's fine. The cheap Chinese hose probably doesn't actually reach the standard to be called R9 but who's going to stop them from printing it on the side?

The other side of the coin is the fact that the hose gets baked to death inside the fairing, this is probably worse than the ethanol content and another good reason why some quality hose last better.

I've been through Pirtek's UK catalogue and they don't offer fuel hose anywhere near 8mm ID so they're out. There is a smaller manufacturer called Cohline but I haven't seen any proper reviews of their hose.

Is everyone just replacing their cheap hose with more cheap hose every 2-3 years? Or are you all just not even looking at it?? Surely you're not still running around on the original BMW hoses..?

Snod it took me years to find a cheap source of hose. However heat damage on the under tank hose can be reduced by insulating the hoses. The foam insulation I use is from the plumbing department from our local hardware shop/warehouse. It's very cheap but it is a tight fit and requires liberal use of talcum powder to get it to slide over the hose. I also insulated the FPR with reflective insulated tape. The added benefit in OZ is that it helps reduce tank temperature.
Regards Martin.

I use 8mm Goodrich as sold in Halfrauds for the external piping. It hasn't been replaced in 70,000 miles and eight years. Internally, Motorworks are the cheapest source I've found.

Sorry Mr Snod Blatter,having double checked all records  I must admit internal fuel hoses are original  :1a:and showing NO signs of age (unlike me)

So if its not broken why fix it

Aha that's better  

Martin - Someone who has shared my pain! Interesting idea to add insulation, could be useful but mine is really cracking around the tighter bends at the fittings where the clips are which wouldn't be insulated..

Dai - Halfords were actually the first place I looked but they don't appear to sell 8mm ID injector hose any more (you can have 7mm or 9.5mm though). Also they now stock 1 metre packets rather than lopping some off a reel, which would mean 3 packets worth.. But that would still be the same price as 1 metre of Codan! It might be worth my time phoning round and making sure they don't have reels of hose, maybe round the back..?

moriarti - The previous owner replaced the hoses inside my tank not long before I bought it, proper BMW stuff and there aren't any bits floating around so I'm quite happy to leave it. When I bought the bike in 2014 it did actually still have proper BMW external fuel hoses which could well have been original, they were cracking and the inside of one came away from the outer but they didn't leak. The proper BMW hose is leagues ahead of most of the aftermarket stuff available.

Snod due to the fact that I would have had to wait 6 weeks plus for an OEM FPR return line. I had to use a non OEM return line this caused problems with the line collapsing and restricting flow at the bend into the tank. The summer 40C+ degree heat we were experiencing at the time also contributed to the problem. I resolved the problem by fitting a  Unicorn  Unicoil to the bend and keeping it in place by fitting another hose clip under the coil. 
Regards Martin.

Try asking for 8mm fuel line - don't specify what it's for. Or have you tried that? Regretably, half the time they don't know what they're selling and never ever mention the word 'motorcycle' because you'll get the inevitable response 'we don't sell motorcycle parts'.

Anyone that thinks I'm joking - I'm not.

I've gotten the price down from $100.00 a metre to $18.00 a metre,. The source is a Motorsport accessory shop, they supply parts for race, rally and street machines.  Try looking for one of those.
Regards Martin.

Dai wrote:Try asking for 8mm fuel line - don't specify what it's for. Or have you tried that? Regretably, half the time they don't know what they're selling and never ever mention the word 'motorcycle' because you'll get the inevitable response 'we don't sell motorcycle parts'.

Anyone that thinks I'm joking - I'm not.

They have some 8mm fuel line listed on their site but it's R6 for carbs, not for injection. I have to admit I'm not particularly keen to go round the shops right now with all these coronas floating about too..

As for car places refusing to sell anything if you mention motorcycle, at least there's some (dumb) logic behind it. I was once turned away from a trail bike place because I was trying to get fork seals for a road bike! They're all Showas, I want this size.. Nah mate, only do trail bikes here. They never even pretended to look

There is a race/rally place in Leicester called Graham Goodes, they are famous for high prices but could be worth a try.

And so, to bring this to a close.. I ended up buying some Goodyear hose from Flexiducting, which happened to actually be Continental hose (could've been worse!) and cost £46.66 including postage for 3 metres. Postage was £10 and I see 2 metres would actually be more than sufficient so my final recommendation to people in the UK is to just buy the damned Codan hose from volksbolts and be done with it!  

They seem to have the best price for Codan, Cohline won't fit because it's actually 7.3mm ID and the Goodyear/Continental (??) stuff is only cheaper if you're buying more metres than you need.

Anyway, gory pics of 4 year old Chinese hose for your delectation:









She's been stood for 5 and a half weeks while I work my way through various jobs but I was surprised to find the inside of the hose completely dry! I guess that explains the smell of fuel on hot days  

Anyway, better stuff:





It says "Made in Czech Republic" by the way, NOT Made in China!

Earlier MartinW was talking about kinks in the return line leading to rich fuelling, the return line is the short one from the fuel rail straight to the tank right? How did it get kinked?

The OEM return line comes with preformed bends, it runs from the FPR to the tank. Without the preformed bend it can kink where it enters the tank. Hot OZ summer temperatures aggravate the problem as does the quality of the hose. 
Regards Martin.

Interesting, I assumed the flow was the other way round with the FPR first in the circuit.. The new hose is kinking slightly at the bend coming off the top of the FPR, and it did run rich which may have been due to the old hose kinking even more as it deteriorated. Of course it's the bit that's hardest to keep an eye on!

In that case I think it would be best to cut another circle out of the stupid foam baffle thing, so that the hose can be routed more naturally. Maybe next time I'm in there..

OZ has more of a heat problem with the hoses, than you probably have. I covered my hoses with foam insulation that a acquired from the plumbing section of my local hardware shop. It's a tight fit and requires heaps of talcum powder to slid it over the fuel line. I've also insulated under the tank and fitted a fuel rail heat shield. With the mods I've reduced rail temperature by over 50%.
Regards Martin.