Hi all,

my nearside front indicator failed, with the rear going double quick time.

 bulb holder and bulb okay

Used it on offside and worked okay.

 Both Feed wires give the same type of fluctuating voltage 

Nearside earth okay, checked by disconnecting offside earth and connecting a wire to the disconnected nearside earth connector, and the offside ran okay.

If I use the nearside positive, disconnect the nearside earth, and earth via the disconnected offside, it still 

doesnt work, although I get power from the nearside positive , similiar  to the offside readings.

Would it be the switch, which I have not  looked at, or the flasher relay. which I will order anyway

Does anyone know if I can get a flasher relay , ie from car shop, or is the design for the k100 only.

Thanks for any replies

bob

Make sure the actual contact on the bulb is conducting first. It is highly unlikely to be the switch.

Make sure contacts are clean as suggested. Try swapping both bulbs from one side to the other.  Sometimes bulbs can illuminate but not allow enough current through to make the flasher relay happy.

The switch does not control the rate of flashing, the flasher relay does.

The flasher relay is unique to K bikes (and a couple of Rs) and is not a generic part available from anywhere but BMW. (The only aftermarket one I know of is the Kisan SM-6 SignalMinder.)

The bulb that didnt light up on the nearside was okay in the offside holder.

I will go and double check my work.

Checked my findings and they are  correct.

I even swapped the rear bulb and still no go.

Basically, the feed from the nearside non working bulb, does not power the nearside , or the offside .

but when I power the nearside from the offside feed, the nearside works

The fluctuating voltages from both sides , when each is set to on, is the same .

Although the nearside feed has voltage, it will not power either side 


Relay....?

Are you saying that the positive wire to the left front turn signal is not getting power?

Hi Duck,

no, the front nearside positive  wire gives me the same readings as the offside.


bob

What about the ground wire? Have you checked that?

I disconnected the earth wire from the offside bulb holder, and connected a separate  wire from the earth post

to the nearside earth wire , the offside worked, so I presumed the nearside earth is good 


Bob

If using a multimeter to measure the voltage during fault finding readings can get confusing. The meter draws no (very low) current but you will still a voltage. However if there is a high resistance elsewhere in the circuit (e.g. the nearside indicator) the resultant voltage drop at that point, could result in too low a voltage to illuminate the indicator bulb.

There are separate LH and RH input connections to the indicator relay.

In addition to that, looking at the diagram the relay output for say the nearside indicator (Blue Red) appears to have a connection point where the repeater bulb and front and rear indicator bulbs are connected. If that was high resistance then you could get the same symptoms.

And yes it could be a duff relay.

Mike

Thanks Mike,

The nearside bulb and holder works okay when plugged into the offside wiring 

Although I am no sparky, both positives looked to give the same type of voltage drop pattern.

There was no obvious difference between them.

Is it possible to swap the feed wire to both sides on the relay to see if the problem switched sides ?

Bob

1 - If the front isn't working but the rear is hyperflashing then that means the flasher relay is working properly because it should hyperflash if only one turn signal is working.

2 - Pin 10 from the flasher relay is a blue/red wire. That wire feeds three blue/red wires that go to:
a - left rear turn signal
b - left front turn signal
c - left turn indicator lamp in the instrument cluster

Thanks Duck.

which relay pin is for the offside.

I get power to the near side positive wire, but will not light up the bulb.

When I use the hazards, three lights work correctly,at the right speed, but again, the front nearside does not work.

Am I missing something?

Bob

Right side is blue/black from Pin 9 of the flasher relay.

Have you tried swapping in the socket from the right front turn signal to the left? A bad socket might be your issue.

Hi Duck,

have swapped both, and both units light up when connected to the offside.

Checked bulbs ..

nearside earth works when connected to offside feed.

Cannot see how it cannot be the relay somehow....

Bob

But there is only one blue/red wire for the left coming from the relay. If it were the relay not lighting up the front left then it wouldn't light up the others (rear & cluster indicator) either.

Thanks Duck.

I see where you are coming from..

the odd thing is that I get power to the nearside front positive wire . and the earth is good.

but it doesnt light up, yet that bulb and holder works on the offside.

very odd.

try again tomorrow

Bob

Nothing a few beers won't cure.

Try connecting a wire direct from the battery to the input of the bulb. If the bulb the illuminates the fault is up stream to the relay. If it still doesn't illuminate it downstream on the earth side. 

Mike

Test the circuit and if there is 12v or ground by using a bulb of the correct wattage. A meter will show voltage but as soon as the bulb is put in the circuit there is a bad joint that stops the current flow.

I powered the bulb from the battery and it lit up.

The nearside ( non working) positive will not power the offside ( working ) unit either, but the offside ( working )

positive will light up the nearside, so the nearside positive is the issue, the earth must be good

I  will remove the tank and chase the positive feed, might be earthing slightly somewhere.

Will also swap the feeds from the flasher relay and see if the fault swaps side.

Bob

SOLVED at last...

It usually is a simple fix....

Disconnected the flasher relay, contacts seemed very clean, but the flasher started working again when I 

reconnected. 

Hey ho.

serves me right for thinking I had checked all the connectors, except those in the relay tray of course....

It is nice to have it working again, I love long night time rides in the dark, you cannot be visible enough these days

Thanks to all 

Happy days

Bob

It might not have been the connections. It could've been stuck in a glitch mode and disconnecting power to it allowed it to "reboot."

The flasher relay has two power supplies. One is switched (Pin 13 from Fuse 7) and the other is unswitched (Pin 11 from Fuse 3.) The unswitched power allows it to operate the hazard flashers when the bike is turned off - but the hazards must be turned on before the bike is turned off for that to work.

Glad to hear it's sorted.

I would be giving the Relay and connecter a spray with a decent switch cleaner (not WD40).

Mike

Mike d 

I sprayed the connector with an electrical cleaner.

Duck,

How and what is a glitch, and  could it happen again given its 30 years old.


The fault appeared whilst I was riding.

Bob

problem came back again.

Initially working after , but after 100 miles fault came back.

After bike was switched off for a couple of hours, it worked again, but failed again

on return journey.

I need to check blue/red wire at relay connector .

What amount of resistance should the be on the blue/red wire from the relay connector 

and the bulb connector.

Is it worth opening the relay, and given I am no sparky, what might I be looking for.

I will get new fuses for 3 and 7 .

Anything else I could check, before buying a secondhand unit from motorworks

Bob

I would look at the connectors themselves, check the good side for resistance and then the bad side. To check the relay, I would switch left and right hand indicators to see if the problem switches sides. If so I would suspect that the wire is broken in the loom, use a bypass form pin to relay to check it again.

audibob wrote:problem came back again.

Initially working after , but after 100 miles fault came back.

After bike was switched off for a couple of hours, it worked again, but failed again

on return journey.

I need to check blue/red wire at relay connector .

What amount of resistance should the be on the blue/red wire from the relay connector 

and the bulb connector.

Is it worth opening the relay, and given I am no sparky, what might I be looking for.

I will get new fuses for 3 and 7 .

Anything else I could check, before buying a secondhand unit from motorworks

Bob

In thinking about this further, this is probably a wiring problem, not a relay problem.  If it were a relay problem then all three lights would exhibit the same behavior so they would all three hyperflash but it sounds like in your case the left front isn't working while the cluster indicator and left rear are hyperflashing.

Resistance: As Stumpy recommended, measure the resistance of the blue/black working side to find out what it should be a for a good circuit. Measure the resistance between the  flasher relay connector and ground.

audibob wrote:Anything else I could check, before buying a secondhand unit from motorworks

Did you perform the checks suggested below before your temporary success occurred? Did you clean the relay sockets with emery cloth and cleaner?

Rick G wrote:Test the circuit and if there is 12v or ground by using a bulb of the correct wattage. A meter will show voltage but as soon as the bulb is put in the circuit there is a bad joint that stops the current flow.

audibob wrote:I  will remove the tank and chase the positive feed, might be earthing slightly somewhere.
Will also swap the feeds from the flasher relay and see if the fault swaps side.

Thank guys.

I must admit to hoping to see dirty / rusty contacts on the flasher relay, but it was really clean,

Cleaned and sprayed with electrical contact cleaner anyway.

As suggested , I will test the resistance for both positives from their relay connector.

To test the wiring from the relay to the bulb holder, I will run a spare wire and see what happens.

Do I test between each sides relay connector and ground with ignition off

Am no sparky, so, bear with me

I have other things on at the moment, so will report back in a few days


Bob

Power on or off won't matter as the current goes from the relay connector through the bulbs to ground.  So just test the resistance with the power off.

Thanks Duck.

Cured.

Found higher resistance on nearside positive wiring 

traced it to the connector under the tank.

The feed wire was a little  kinked just out of the mid connector on the relay side 

Bypassed with new wire and ok.

Not the relay as Duck correctly  said....

Thanks for all inputs..

Bike is now on the blink...but in a good way..

Bob

Glad to hear you have found a definite fault.

I did post:


In addition to that, looking at the diagram the relay output for say the nearside indicator (Blue Red) appears to have a connection point where the repeater bulb and front and rear indicator bulbs are connected. If that was high resistance then you could get the same symptoms.

Mike

Hi Mike,

as you pointed out, the connector under the tank was a good place to look, it was always going to be the next thing

 to check

I do not mind having to fault find, it is a 30 year  old bike after all.

 Not having a spare bike is a nuisance.

I regret not having a look at the k1100 you sold

Bob

It can be an interesting challenge tracing faults, but as you say old vehicles need a bit of TLC now and again. I was in telecoms for 40 years, so when I was 'in the field' tracing faults was a normal everyday event when commissioning telephone exchanges.

P.S. I haven't sold my K1100 (not even advertised it, so perhaps someone else?)

Mike